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On 8/21/2018 at 12:59 AM, sallycinnamon said:

There's a new interview with Lakernik which was posted a few days ago, he was talking about a few things about the new rules and the possible changes after 2022:

 

http://moksz.hu/jegtanc/otven-eve-biroi-szekben

 

A short summary of the interview:

 

- according to Lakernik, the purpose of the new system is to enable judges to express the differences in quality even more

- the new rules could contribute to more balanced programs but correct judging is the most important - someone who has lots of quads can win the world championships because of high TES but only because of high technical content they shouldn't automatically get high components. Those marks could be a lot lower if the program is nothing special. Scores should reflect what happens on the ice on a particular day 

- a really good program has a good balance of technique and art

- about the possible changes after 2022: they'd want to make the SP and FS even more different than it is now: the 'technical program' and the 'artistic program' would have the same length; the technical program would have more jumps and spins and it would be instrumental while the artistic program would have more free elements and skaters could use also vocal music in it. The majority of the scores (2/3) in the technical program would be TES, in the artistic program the components would weigh more and there wouldn't be levels in it, just BV+GOE.

 

I'm quoting this first interview with Lakernik here from August last year because that's when he talked about the technical vs artistic program in more details. At that time he talked about this as a possible change, now he says the possibility of introduction of the system is very high.

He talked about some other things too in that interview. He says lots of things how judging should look like ideally but in reality it is not what happens. I also don't see how the new system would keep that good balance of technique and art, which is essential of a good program in his opinion too.

 

On 8/23/2019 at 9:32 AM, Henni147 said:

A split into a "technical" and "artistic" program won't solve anything. The corrupt and inacurrate human judging will remain (get even worse for the artistic part) and figure skating will lose its charme as a sport that merges technique and choreography. Lakernik would never admit it, but I'm sure that deep in his freezing heart he knows this.

 

They talk about some problems at seminars/webinars when it comes to judging, so they know the problems exist but then things don't change at competitions. The accountability of judging is almost non existent because that's how the system works now, even if judging is not anonymous anymore. That's a big problem, the other is that many still have a way of thinking of the 6.0 system which would require to educate the officials properly (there are big differences in the federation regarding education and experience of judges but after all it is ISU's responsibility to have properly trained officials at international competitions) . The dependency of judges from their own federations is also a problem because it puts pressure on them.

I am not too optimistic about the future it they remain not accountable for their work then things will barely change. The sport will lose interest and many fans.

 

12 hours ago, yuzuangel said:

So..they could literally use this format for 2022 Beijing? Or would it be for after Beijing?

 

These big changes would be after Beijing.

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"In his presentation before the test skate, you also mentioned that a new system would be proposed for World Championships and the Olympics at next year's ISU Congress."

I'm hoping this isn't for Beijing, because if the system goes as it does now, it's highly possible that ladies will be primarily Russian and Japanese, if the top 24 in world standings trend holds. Men's might be a bit more diverse, but still, less diversity overall. 

 

As for the artistic versus technical program, how will this work out for pairs and ice dance? I guess for ice dance we'll have compulsory dance patterns? o_O

Which brings me back to an old tweet:

 

 

Speaking of which, after this format change, what kind of titles will we have? The 2023 Jump champion? The 2023 Hand Choreography World Champion? 

Speaking of which, about the artistry competition, no one has bothered to reply yet, was the Peggy Flemming competition format programs significantly more artistic than status quo? 

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4 hours ago, Xen said:

I guess for ice dance we'll have compulsory dance patterns? o_O

 

They already do? I mean, the rhythm dance follows a compulsory dance pattern to perform, unless you mean compulsory pattern (of sorts) for pairs...

 

Anyway, bonkers proposals, this separation of technical and *artistry* programs is :animated-smileys-angry-041:. How hard is it to apply the rules properly really? The Code of Points?

I mean come on, the points system isn't rocket science, calculus or linear algebra, it's just basic arithmetics! :animated-smileys-angry-041:. It does make me wonder how come those judges survive adult life without basic necessary arithmetic skills on their own :v :v :v :v :v

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Lakernik clarified some things in this new interview: 

https://rsport.ria.ru/20190826/1557921557.html

 

Quote

According to the vice president of ISU, in case of adoption of the changes, the principles of judging will not change fundamentally. “The judges will work with around the same principles as they are do now. Simply, components will play a smaller role in one program and a larger one in another,” said Lakernik. In the technical program components will make up 40 percent, and in the artistic program - 60 ".
“In the artistic program, complexity will be in the background. Skaters in this program will also jump, rotate and do other elements, but the number of elements will be less and their weight will be significantly lower."

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Funny how there exists a skater who perfectly blends artistry and technicality and yet they do everything they can to twist the rules against him while rewarding the “artistry” of technical skaters and ignoring the technical flaws of others. This new proposal is a total farce and will change nothing. 

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I wonder how the ISU might react if fans started bringing protest banners alongside their supporting skaters banners. Not agressive stuff as I'm not a fan of those, but something like "The rules aren't problem, it's how they're applied!" or "FS fans don't want programs to be separated in artistic and technical". Or even "FS fans aren't filthy rich. Stop taking advantage of fans wanting to support their favorite drivers!" re: increased prices. Because it seems they don't care about what fans think otherwise, maybe something like this wouldn't give them much of a choice? (Cameras would pick them up eventually...) And to think I'm not even a fan of protests, but this is just so ridiculous...

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1 hour ago, KatjaThera said:

I wonder how the ISU might react if fans started bringing protest banners alongside their supporting skaters banners. Not agressive stuff as I'm not a fan of those, but something like "The rules aren't problem, it's how they're applied!" or "FS fans don't want programs to be separated in artistic and technical". Or even "FS fans aren't filthy rich. Stop taking advantage of fans wanting to support their favorite drivers!" re: increased prices. Because it seems they don't care about what fans think otherwise, maybe something like this wouldn't give them much of a choice? (Cameras would pick them up eventually...) And to think I'm not even a fan of protests, but this is just so ridiculous...

 

I think it would be smart to come up with a quote from Yuzu, where he said something like:

'A solid technique is the foundation of artistry. It's impossible to separate them.'

 

1. It's true 2. not offensive and 3. it throws shade on the ISU  :popcorn:

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1 hour ago, Henni147 said:

 

I think it would be smart to come up with a quote from Yuzu, where he said something like:

'A solid technique is the foundation of artistry. It's impossible to split them.'

I would love that, but it could be harder to get others on board, given how some seem to be allergic to all things Yuzu. But I'm now actually tempted to make a banner with that quote of his for ACI... :ohmygod:

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