It begins.

 

 

 

On 9/3/2018 at 4:26 AM, OonsieHui said:

 

I'm confused by a few things with this because:

 

1) How is it that JSF considers Shoma Japans ace when Yuzu is the one consistently delivering the big wins? Is it more of that Japan politics cause of the region thing?

2) Where was/is this political backing/favour for Yuzu? (if we take it as JSF is now backing Shoma since they consider him the one to take over from Yuzu.) Yuzu has never been shown favour in terms of overscoring (except for COC 14' but thats an entirely different matter), quite the opposite really. he's consistently underscored. 

[admin edit: speculation]

 

As for Yuzu getting political backing, I don't think he ever did.

 

COC'14 rant below:

Spoiler

I don't even consider COC '14 as political backing. While one can argue that 5 falls is too much, I personally think that despite that and despite the pain he must have been in, Yuzu still showed more expressiveness and artistry than many skaters do now. It was an intensely emotional performance and very impressive from a "kept falling, but also kept getting back up again", never give up point of view. It's also not like he got ridiculously high PCS, as far as I remember - it was much lower than he usually did - and the GOE he got was for rotating the jumps, despite everything, and he got all the fall deductions. So it bugs me sometimes when people make a big deal out of that. I think if the competition had been stronger and if he hadn't finished second, it wouldn't be such a big deal, but since he finished second, that's all people complained about. But then, IMO, Patrick's FS at the Olympics was very bad, because he visibly gave up and was hesitant the whole way through, yet some people praise that performance and claim it was better than Yuzu's FS at Olys. Yuzu never gave up in China, despite everything and I'm all for him getting points for it.

 

Back to the topic, up to Sochi, JSF backed Daisuke - and looking back on old threads on GS, it's quite funny to see the bias there as Yuzu started threatening that position with results, not to mention the conspiracy theories. Afterwards, I think they sort of basked in Yuzu's success, but without actually doing much about it. They didn't really need to either, though.

 

[admin edit: speculation] But Yuzu is still their secret weapon and if Shoma can't do it, they hide behind Yuzu's success. But as far as helping him and giving him political backing? Not gonna happen. Haven't there been competitions when the Japanese judge scored Yuzu more poorly than they scored Nathan and more poorly than the US judge scored Yuzu. It doesn't get more not backing up than that, IMO...

To think about it, Yuzu doesn't really belong to any skating tradition/school/powerhouse or whatever you call it. He's Japanese & laid a great technical foundation in Japan. From Russian heroes & teachers he found his artistic origin. North American coaches & choreographers help him hone his skills & present a unique package. I think he's the most complete skater the world has ever seen for many reasons, and an important one of them is that he isn't confined to one place in terms of learning & experience. While many take pride in being totally "Japan-made," "Russia-made" etc, he is sort of a "skating global citizen." (pardon me for the lousy made-up term😂) None of the big feds or skating schools can call him entirely their own. I guess that might have cost him some political support, but it also helped him become the miraculous skater that he is. (Thanks to Shirota-san for sending him out!)

1 hour ago, OonsieHui said:

 

I'm confused by a few things with this because:

 

1) How is it that JSF considers Shoma Japans ace when Yuzu is the one consistently delivering the big wins? Is it more of that Japan politics cause of the region thing?

2) Where was/is this political backing/favour for Yuzu? (if we take it as JSF is now backing Shoma since they consider him the one to take over from Yuzu.) Yuzu has never been shown favour in terms of overscoring (except for COC 14' but thats an entirely different matter), quite the opposite really. he's consistently underscored. 

Spoiler

Yes, region thingy. Shoma is from Nagoya, where's considered origin of skating in jpn w the likes of midori ito and mao asada. Do u ever question why Shizuka arakawa has never been loved as mao even shes the oly champ? (She was even the underdog going to the oly cuz mao age wasnt qualified then). Nagoya has always been strong w politics even when now they r not the best camp. Dont forget Mako, who got best result out of jr, rika is a better jr imo. 

 

Isn't the main reason for Yuzu's lack of political support Shirota? Otherwise there would have been no reason JSF would not have given him full support towards achieving double Olympic Champion - that would have been huge for Japan and he isn't even at the age where he needs to pass the baton to the younger generation.. plenty of male skaters skate till they are 27 or 28.  

 

I often wonder whether his skating career would have been easier if he wasn't associated with Shirota - but then he wouldn't have moved to TCC (although even if he did not go, I am sure he would still have had a stellar career , but whether the stars would have aligned for a double Olympic gold may be a different story )  

 

But on the flip side the reason Hanyu is so strong and a well-rounder is because he knows he has no one to rely upon other than himself - he basically have to do 110% for the judges to award him 100%, hence he is never complacent.  

 

This season he will probably be one of the skaters most vulnerable to the judging - despite the fact he hasn't ruled out Beijing, other than his fans, most people and maybe JSF and ISU too, seem to think he won't stay the full quad - which means they are desperate to create a new "idol" to fill in the void when he does leave. and unfortunately the only way they can think of is by having someone beat him.     

10 hours ago, quadaxelwin said:

True. An evil part of me wishes he won't land it this season, just so I can see him try it for a few seasons more. But another part of me wants to see him land it this season and break another WR. I'm in agreement with you, that I just want him to be happy and healthy now, without pressure. He has done more than enough for figure skating. He deserves a break. I kind of want to see Yuzu on a big vacation holiday in Hawaii or something, just swimming with dolphins without kuyashii vibes after he lands 4A. 

While this is a lovely image.........our boy  hates sunshine  and can't swim so it's more likely he'll be hiking or skiing i think?? I know he'd like to visit England to see Pooh's forest home!

18 minutes ago, monchan said:

  Hide contents

Yes, region thingy. Shoma is from Nagoya, where's considered origin of skating in jpn w the likes of midori ito and mao asada. Do u ever question why Shizuka arakawa has never been loved as mao even shes the oly champ? (She was even the underdog going to the oly cuz mao age wasnt qualified then). Nagoya has always been strong w politics even when now they r not the best camp. Dont forget Mako, who got best result out of jr, rika is a better jr imo. 

 

Ohh and i was wondering why i haven’t heard much of shizuka but heard a lot about mao midori hmm

 

18 minutes ago, Anki said:

Isn't the main reason for Yuzu's lack of political support Shirota?

 

Also who is shirota and why it affects yuzu?

13 minutes ago, Anki said:

This season he will probably be one of the skaters most vulnerable to the judging - despite the fact he hasn't ruled out Beijing, other than his fans, most people and maybe JSF and ISU too, seem to think he won't stay the full quad - which means they are desperate to create a new "idol" to fill in the void when he does leave. and unfortunately the only way they can think of is by having someone beat him.     

 

But like a lot of people have already said a lot of times, if he delivers, it's really hard for judges not to throw the book at him and sometimes they've tried (Worlds 17 FS) keeping him down and he got a WR, and sometimes they didn't keep him down (ACI 17 SP) and he got a WR. The result was the same because if Yuzuru brings his programs home, he will always be first. 

Also, right now he is a living legend. In the skating world, there are two categories of people: people who say he's the greatest of all time, and people who don't say it because of reasons, but they think it anyways. In any case, his PCS should and probably will always be the highest of every competition, especially right now that there is no more Javi and no more Patrick. He's the only true "total package" left, the others being young promising skaters who are trying to become like him. 

All of this to say: I think his destiny is in his own hands. Yes, there will be unfair judging and athletes who will be pushed and he won't. But he doesn't need pushing. He won't win all the gold medals in the world, he's lost to Chen twice and in both occasions it was by few points that could have been changed with a different kind of judging. 

But, for example, now that GOE's have more importance, even if right now we are seeing a mess at the JGP and the same element is getting from -2 to +4 in GOE... I truly believe that if Yuzuru jumps like he's used to jumping, it won't be long before his jumps will have +5 across the boards. 

8 hours ago, quadaxelwin said:

So he won't float in water because his body fat is too low?

Wait, my focus is... he can't swim??? Hahahahahahaha why did I burst out laughing and can't  stop myself? Maybe tried to picture the scene he attempts to do swim... sink and float, sink and float...

1 hour ago, KatjaThera said:

. But then, IMO, Patrick's FS at the Olympics was very bad, because he visibly gave up and was hesitant the whole way through, yet some people praise that performance and claim it was better than Yuzu's FS at Olys.

It's not just your opinion, it was objectively not good, and mentally speaking, Patrick gave up before the season even began. That was always the problem with Patrick. He never really had the right mental game. Yuzu, on the other hand, is like a textbook example of having a good mental game.

Too much talks about politics can be confusing. 

Anyway, just seen this. Might be jut an angle difference, but did anyone think that Yuzu's 3A is getting higher?

 

 

I was actually thinking the 3A looked higher and farther throughout all the practice clips. 

...

 

Nessie?

 

32 minutes ago, Murieleirum said:

 

But like a lot of people have already said a lot of times, if he delivers, it's really hard for judges not to throw the book at him and sometimes they've tried (Worlds 17 FS) keeping him down and he got a WR, and sometimes they didn't keep him down (ACI 17 SP) and he got a WR. The result was the same because if Yuzuru brings his programs home, he will always be first. 

Also, right now he is a living legend. In the skating world, there are two categories of people: people who say he's the greatest of all time, and people who don't say it because of reasons, but they think it anyways. In any case, his PCS should and probably will always be the highest of every competition, especially right now that there is no more Javi and no more Patrick. He's the only true "total package" left, the others being young promising skaters who are trying to become like him. 

All of this to say: I think his destiny is in his own hands. Yes, there will be unfair judging and athletes who will be pushed and he won't. But he doesn't need pushing. He won't win all the gold medals in the world, he's lost to Chen twice and in both occasions it was by few points that could have been changed with a different kind of judging. 

But, for example, now that GOE's have more importance, even if right now we are seeing a mess at the JGP and the same element is getting from -2 to +4 in GOE... I truly believe that if Yuzuru jumps like he's used to jumping, it won't be long before his jumps will have +5 across the boards. 

The new rules favors those with multiple quads (especially the 4F and 4Lz) and that is not Yuzu. The younger quad kids are also catching up to him in PC and even if he is always given the highest PC scores, a couple of points won't make a big difference compared to the BV and GOE of quads. 

@Anki does unfortunately have a point. If the ISU and the judges wanted to create an new idol, then beating Yuzu is the way to go because he is a legend. It is basically piggybacking on his fame and reputation. Afterall, who is the best skater in the world? it is the one who beat the legend 

We did see it in the media last year at the Olympics when they were pushing Nathan and always bringing up the fact that he is the only one to beat Yuzu (if you discount ACI which they probably did) in the previous year. I am not saying it is going to happen, but we cannot just believe that if he is clean he will win anymore. Give the other quadseters high GOE and PC (they are almost there) and they will win, it is just math. Yuzu knows and understand this which is why he talked about the new generation when asked about WR. 

Sorry for the pessimistic post.. I think Yuzu will be fine because his goals are not just winning but delivering great performances and the 4A. But I think we should be prepared to see someone else win over a clean Yuzu, as it very much can happen.