General Skating Chat

[EisElle]

4 hours ago, Paskud said:

ISU still believes that 4cc can happen in Australia

https://www.isu.org/figure-skating/events/figure-skating-calendar/eventdetail/12303/-/isu-four-continents-figure-skating-championships?templateParam=11

Does Australia know?🤔

[Veveco]

Do they expect skaters to swim to Australia? There won't be any international flights by then 

[SparkleSalad]

It's just cruel to advertise 4CC at this point. It's impossible.

Yuzu won't be there anyway even if there is a miracle.

[Melodie]

23 hours ago, LadyLou said:

re: ISU decision to go on with GP and GPF

meh

especially after the speed skating branch cancelled lots of events. And some fs challengers were cancelled or postponed too

 

re: ISU guidelines

hallelujah!!!!!

finally they made it! (better late than never)

I had a look and everyhting sounds so very reasonable, we'll see if they'll make it work (still thinking that mixed zone aren't truly a necessity in a "domestic" GP. Just ask for comments by skaters later and let people leave as soon as they can! Use videochat! Or have a nice gazebo outside, if you must)

It looks like there will be some medical personnel in charge of covid measures (every accredited person must have a medical check too, other than daily measurement of body temperature). Maybe it's finally time that FS has some more care about skaters' health (no more competitng thorugh pneumonia, despite how inspiring such show of resilience could be). 

I find very unfair, though, to ask skaters to get tested before the event on their own. It should be on the feds and ISU to provide and pay for those tests (i'm not even sure how feasible it is in some countries for a layman to get a pcr test, nevermind several of those)

 

 

To be honest, the thing that annoys me the most is they still want GPF as test event (especially when Chinese government didn't look so keen on hosting international events this autumn). Like, if you wanna go for "domestic" (and rightfully so)GP, then fields are gonna be all over the place, so how do you pick a top6(or 12) for a GPF that's remotely "fair"?

by highest ranking, with unbalanced fields you get a whole mess

by scores it would mean that every GP will be like Nats, trying to one up each other, so you get another whole mess

I can see a combo of ranking and scores being the closest thing to a reasonable selection, but...why don't consider the chance of scheduling a different test event, later? (heck, even a WTT, if it comes to that)

I agree that the guideline generally sounds good. Most of my concerns regarding the GP series are the same as yours: 

 

1. The award ceremony "on ice or off ice, shall respect the physical distancing of 1,5 meters" BUT "Medals are presented on a plate by the ISU Representative or other delegate". It can be awkward/hilarious for skaters to try to get to the plate from the podium and the ISU representatives to give said plate to the skaters

2. The score WILL be a scorching hot mess, like you said. This honestly might be the year for everyone and their mother with a strong fed backup to break all sort of records. Hell, when would be a better time to do that? (In retrospect, this might also be the year for feds to compete with each other to show who is the boss before Beijing). They can try to go back to the 6.0 scoring system just for this GP tho, so no COP scores and no world standings are counted. 

 

3. How are they going to balance out the allotment of assignment? Some GP will have more than enough skaters in all disciplines, and some will not. Are they going to let those who don't even qualify for GPs participate just so they can meet the quotas? Are they going to cancel the disciplines for the GP that do not have enough skaters altogether, or are they going to basically let everyone advance to the Final? 

[Paskud]

so blues at Olympics

Quote

Junior and Senior: At least two different Rhythms from the following: "Urban Dance Rhythms" (such as hip hop, disco, swing, krump, popping, funk, etc.), jazz, reggae (reggaeton) and blues

Note: To comply with the ethical values of sports, any music chosen for Ice Dance competitions must not include aggressive and/or offending lyrics.

 

Pattern Dance Element:

Midnight Blues for Seniors

Blues for Juniors

https://www.isu.org/inside-isu/isu-communications/communications/24923-2346-id-guidelines-for-rhythm-dance-season-2021-22/file

[rockstaryuzu]

On 9/2/2020 at 6:46 AM, Paskud said:

ISU still believes that 4cc can happen in Australia

https://www.isu.org/figure-skating/events/figure-skating-calendar/eventdetail/12303/-/isu-four-continents-figure-skating-championships?templateParam=11

How? If people can't fly there and the Aussie government has implemented some of the strictest quarantine rules going...sometimes I think the ISU smokes the wacky stuff...

[rockstaryuzu]

2 hours ago, Paskud said:

so blues at Olympics

https://www.isu.org/inside-isu/isu-communications/communications/24923-2346-id-guidelines-for-rhythm-dance-season-2021-22/file

What the heck are "Midnight Blues"? --> Do they mean 'smouldering with sexual innuendo' blues or 'my whole life is so bad I have to drink myself senseless' blues? Because both are a thing. 

 

On 9/2/2020 at 10:56 AM, LadyLou said:

Does Australia know?🤔

Maybe someone should tell them so they can *ahem* educate   the ISU?

[EternalSpin]

39 minutes ago, rockstaryuzu said:

Do they mean 'smouldering with sexual innuendo' blues or 'my whole life is so bad I have to drink myself senseless' blues? Because both are a thing. 

I love both of your definitions 

Not sure I'd like this 'midnight blues' thing as a dance pattern though...

[Veveco]

 

 

[Songster01]

Quote

Sebastianelli said that cardiac MRI scans revealed that approximately a third of Big Ten athletes who tested positive for COVID-19 appeared to have myocarditis, an inflammation of the heart muscle that can be fatal if left unchecked.

“When we looked at our COVID-positive athletes, whether they were symptomatic or not, 30 to roughly 35 percent of their heart muscles (were) inflamed,” Sebastianelli said. “And we really just don’t know what to do with it right now. It’s still very early in the infection. Some of that has led to the Pac-12 and the Big Ten’s decision to sort of put a hiatus on what’s happening.”

Read more here: https://www.centredaily.com/sports/college/penn-state-university/psu-football/article245448050.html#storylink=cpy

 

Reading this article makes me wonder why any of us (definitely including myself here) should be hoping for skating competitions at all this season.  If we truly value people's lives, why can't we pause until after a safe and effective vaccine is rolled out for most people?  The GPF in particular and even international championships (without a strict bubble, competent and universal masking, and 2-weeks quarantining on both ends) seem ridiculous.  Virtual events/people doing demos at their respective clubs (if they are open) seem far safer.  We know now that aerosols are a serious mode of transmission, so sending teams into others' rinks for many hours at a time is risky even if there are no fans permitted.  And those feds allowing fans in is beyond ridiculous.  I certainly hope Ontario retains its strict limiting of numbers in indoor spaces and make fans an impossibility.

 

 

[EisElle]

11 hours ago, Songster01 said:

 

Reading this article makes me wonder why any of us (definitely including myself here) should be hoping for skating competitions at all this season.  If we truly value people's lives, why can't we pause until after a safe and effective vaccine is rolled out for most people?  The GPF in particular and even international championships (without a strict bubble, competent and universal masking, and 2-weeks quarantining on both ends) seem ridiculous.  Virtual events/people doing demos at their respective clubs (if they are open) seem far safer.  We know now that aerosols are a serious mode of transmission, so sending teams into others' rinks for many hours at a time is risky even if there are no fans permitted.  And those feds allowing fans in is beyond ridiculous.  I certainly hope Ontario retains its strict limiting of numbers in indoor spaces and make fans an impossibility.

 

 

I've read it too and it isn't the first time that damages (temporary, maybe, but still relevant) even in asymptomatic cases are found, which is very troubling. You really can't say young fit people are 100%safe. And exactly because athletes are young and fit, they push their body to the max and beyond. Myocarditis clearly isn't compatible with that. Even if, best case scenario, the condition is detected and it's reversible with rest, the recovery time might still hamper athletes' career.

 

Even if studies are still very limited (for example I'd like for all the football teams who had players positive to covid &asymphtomatic to disclose if they had similar findings, plus there might be correlation with some other yet unknown third factor playing a role) it should make everyone more cautious (especially people dismissing risks for young fit people).

 

I really hope that Yuzuru isn't the only one keeping himself updated on these matters. Skaters must know all the possible risks before committing to a comp, and so should ISU and feds.

 

ETA: adding this ESPN article for broader perspective

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/29633697/heart-condition-linked-covid-19-fuels-power-5-concern-season-viability

ETA2: it looks like the 30-35% figures were wrong, they were 15% instead

here clarification (afaik this preliminary study has yet to be published. In the ESPN article I saw a <5% thrown around at a point, but I don't recall if those were the findings in another pool of athletes or a different estimate)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/09/03/big-ten-coronavirus-myocarditis/

Quote

was not aware that it had been published, showing a rate of close to 15 percent among athletes, most of whom had experienced mild or no symptoms.

how many skaters would be checked with a cardiac MRI after very mild symptoms? (and if they never know they were at risk, they wouldn't even think that they need this kind of extra check up)

 

[EternalSpin]

News about Japan Open

 

[rockstaryuzu]

16 hours ago, LadyLou said:

I've read it too and it isn't the first time that damages (temporary, maybe, but still relevant) even in asymptomatic cases are found, which is very troubling. You really can't say young fit people are 100%safe. And exactly because athletes are young and fit, they push their body to the max and beyond. Myocarditis clearly isn't compatible with that. Even if, best case scenario, the condition is detected and it's reversible with rest, the recovery time might still hamper athletes' career.

 

Even if studies are still very limited (for example I'd like for all the football teams who had players positive to covid &asymphtomatic to disclose if they had similar findings, plus there might be correlation with some other yet unknown third factor playing a role) it should make everyone more cautious (especially people dismissing risks for young fit people).

 

I really hope that Yuzuru isn't the only one keeping himself updated on these matters. Skaters must know all the possible risks before committing to a comp, and so should ISU and feds.

 

ETA: adding this ESPN article for broader perspective

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/29633697/heart-condition-linked-covid-19-fuels-power-5-concern-season-viability

ETA2: it looks like the 30-35% figures were wrong, they were 15% instead

here clarification (afaik this preliminary study has yet to be published. In the ESPN article I saw a <5% thrown around at a point, but I don't recall if those were the findings in another pool of athletes or a different estimate)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/09/03/big-ten-coronavirus-myocarditis/

how many skaters would be checked with a cardiac MRI after very mild symptoms? (and if they never know they were at risk, they wouldn't even think that they need this kind of extra check up)

 

Well, when you get down to it, if you don't have a baseline, pre-COVID measurement of a person's heart, you can't really assume the heart was perfect before the virus. I'm saying that, not to discount these findings, which I think are significant, but because abnormalities can arise in heart muscle due to the kind of intense, regular, and long-term exercise that elite athletes put themselves through. You don't even have to be elite - you just have to have pushed yourself a lot over a long period of time and you can experience things like thickened heart muscle and atrial fibrillations. For example, the top competitors in the Vasaloppet, a 95km long ski race, especially the ones who've completed it many years in a row, have been shown to develop a particular kind of a-fib. 

This means that an athlete's heart should be monitored regularly. It also means that any post-COVID findings need to be judged in context. 

 

I personally also think it means the fittest people among us might actually be more vulnerable to the virus than we expected.

[SitTwizzle]

45 minutes ago, rockstaryuzu said:

Well, when you get down to it, if you don't have a baseline, pre-COVID measurement of a person's heart, you can't really assume the heart was perfect before the virus. I'm saying that, not to discount these findings, which I think are significant, but because abnormalities can arise in heart muscle due to the kind of intense, regular, and long-term exercise that elite athletes put themselves through. You don't even have to be elite - you just have to have pushed yourself a lot over a long period of time and you can experience things like thickened heart muscle and atrial fibrillations. For example, the top competitors in the Vasaloppet, a 95km long ski race, especially the ones who've completed it many years in a row, have been shown to develop a particular kind of a-fib. 

This means that an athlete's heart should be monitored regularly. It also means that any post-COVID findings need to be judged in context. 

 

I personally also think it means the fittest people among us might actually be more vulnerable to the virus than we expected.

Then, one could wish a survey to establish the proportion between possible causes for heart damage, and if it could raise awareness and lead to a better monitoring of athletes' health, it would make another silver lining.

[IceWings]

4 hours ago, rockstaryuzu said:

Well, when you get down to it, if you don't have a baseline, pre-COVID measurement of a person's heart, you can't really assume the heart was perfect before the virus. I'm saying that, not to discount these findings, which I think are significant, but because abnormalities can arise in heart muscle due to the kind of intense, regular, and long-term exercise that elite athletes put themselves through. You don't even have to be elite - you just have to have pushed yourself a lot over a long period of time and you can experience things like thickened heart muscle and atrial fibrillations. For example, the top competitors in the Vasaloppet, a 95km long ski race, especially the ones who've completed it many years in a row, have been shown to develop a particular kind of a-fib. 

This means that an athlete's heart should be monitored regularly. It also means that any post-COVID findings need to be judged in context. 

 

I personally also think it means the fittest people among us might actually be more vulnerable to the virus than we expected.

Yuzu regularly wears a heart monitor.  At least fans assume that the small box he wears under his UA during practice is a heart monitor. 

 

I wonder if other skaters do that or it's just him because of his asthma.