51 minutes ago, Yoa said:

Judges gave him high pcs with 2 mistakes. He also had a few -2 for a fall instead of -3. His tes was also quite high before technical specialist called ur on 4Lo. So I don't see how judges are not impressed with Chopin... 

 

The 112.72 at ACI also obviously means judges are tired of Chopin. 

1 hour ago, Amura365 said:

I think that doing Chopin for a third time is beginning to look like a mistake. Especially given how he skated it this morning he's not doing himself any favors. As a Hanyu fan I was not impressed and it didn't look like the judges were either. If you're going to do a program for a third season you better sell the heck out of it. You have to skate it clean otherwise you're not justifying why you're using it. I know many will say Hanyu always had a slow start at the beginning the season. I'm well aware of his track record however he can't afford to make errors like that anymore when he's gotten Nathan Chen and Shoma Uno and many others nipping at his heels now he does not have a fall/mistake cushion anymore that doesn't exist. 

 

It's funny that you say this because I actually felt the exact opposite.

 

I think it's no secret that Yuzu has struggled in his first GP (particularly in the SP) over the last 4 seasons, he made really costly errors at Skate Canada the last two seasons, and also at Cup of China was Chopin was a new program. I think if Yuzu hadn't been skating a program he was familiar with (with exception of the new jump layout with the loop) and used a brand new program I think we may have seen his typical SP bomb in the first GP. Since he's comfortable with this music I think it actually allowed him to keep a certain level of composure that he wasn't able to in the past, and he kept the mistakes to a minimum degree when compared to the last couple of seasons in his first GP. He still had struggles with the 3T in the combo (I think he said he didn't have enough speed for the rippon and hesitated for a second) so he clearly had some doubt creep in, but he still went for the rotation which is more than we can say for the past first GPs. He was able to get a decent score and keep himself in the running, which I think is the positive that comes out of this strategy. I don't necessarily think they selected it because they were fully confident he could do it clean all the time, but that he could at least rotate most of the jumps and land 2 out f 3 a majority of the time.

I'm going to sound like a broken record but I'm a bit sick of hearing people say judges are tired of Chopin and Seimei. And the worry about him not winning SP each time. 

 

While yeah, I would have personally preferred him to skate to new programs, like Rite of Spring, Tan Dun etc, I'm fine with Chopin and Seimei. They are considered by many many people to be his programs, the programs that scream Yuzuru Hanyu (Seimei especially). So if he had to recycle anything, then you know what, those were the right programs to recycle.

 

As for the Olys-Short Program is not where he will be strongest, in fact he just needs to hang on to top 3 and not fall too far behind. Objectively, Short programs are merciless if you have a lower BV and do not go clean. So Yuzu, short of breaking WR left and right, just has to skate extra clean as he does not have the highest BV. And that's fine. His real objective has to be win the FS, he has enough GOE and PCS scores to make up most SP point differences, even if his opponents go clean -because a fairly clean Yuzu will kill you on GOEs and PCs, and 1 extra GOE per jump is an additional 8 pts, bye bye SP lead of the other guys. 

 

As for the Lutz-I think a couple of us, Yata, Meoima, Xeyra etc all thought he was going to do it as soon as we heard recycled Chopin. Why? Well his real goal again is to not be too down in points in the BV, if he's too far behind his GOE and PCs won't make up for the difference. I think that was when I mentioned Yolo 4Lz2T (landed with +GOEs), but anyways, given the sQuad boys' BVs, I don't really expect Yuzu to be first after SP each competition, especially if Boyang, Nate and Shoma are present. But I fully see it possible for him to slay in the FS. Besides, it would be lovely to see him break WR left and right in PC. n_n

 

4 minutes ago, Xen said:

I'm going to sound like a broken record but

 

We probably are a whole library of broken long playing records  I have one just like that in my house! Every disk is broken but my parents keep them because Aesthetic.

Its too early to say anything is right or wrong I would like to wait until GPF. I share the same thought as kiches. Had he skate brand new program, he would mess up even harder. The whole program today is not bad at all, if we don't put it beside the ACI performance  The score was a bit higher than I expected, he would get 5 points lower if its in skate canada. 

Finally caught up...

 

A few comments:

 

- someone mentioned commentators kept forgetting Yuzu had done Chopin before; that makes me think we're far more aware of the three-peat than many others in the FS world and that might actually include judges

 

- IMO, expecting him to go clean every single time is unrealistic. Inconsistent is a bad word because it implies others are consistent. I prefer unpredictable. Because he's human. Personally I also find that unpredictability inspiring. Sure, it's awesome to see him win. But it's far more inspiring to see him get up after a fall. After numerous falls. And not let the falls or the failures affect him - too much. And see him always strive to do better. And that he can fail but can also win in ways that make some call him a God, that is inspiring, too. If he only won, it'd be easy to say: well, he's just special, only special people can do that. But that he also fails makes him more human. And makes you think: well, I failed, but maybe I can pick myself up and do something great, too, just like him.

 

- Also IMO, speaking of the mental thing, I think he's too sensitive a person to be able to shut everything out. And if he did, his performance might become less emotional and passionate. What he really needs, IMO, is to find a balance between calm and don't give a damn and emotional and passionate. That, I also think, is much, much harder to get. (I also wonder if his over the top intensity is him forcing himself to try to get in the zone and shut things out, only he sometimes ends up focusing too much on the very thing he wants to shut out.)

 

- I don't actually think therapy is an option for him, because I think therapy doesn't really work if it's done halfway. It would inevitably go into the whole responsibility towards his country and guilt and earthquake trauma I don't think he ever really dealt with and he doesn't need that now. (I'm pretty sure he doesn't want to deal with it now of all times, either.) The guy has a lot of emotional baggage. Skating is in a way how he deals with it, but precisely because of that, it won't always be smooth sailing. Meditating is probably better. Or, like I said once before, trying a traditional Japanese sport, as most of those imply learning self-control, including of one's thoughts and emotions. To achieve what we in the West like to call zen state.

 

- Also, he could go perfect in every competition from now till the Olympics and still bomb at the Olympics. Or he could bomb every competition until the Olympics and do perfectly there. Of course, scores and reputation and so on matter, but an imperfect SP - although I am SO glad if he really sees it wasn't THAT bad; I was always frustrated at how badly he took the Worlds SP score, even though the performance there wasn't THAT bad, either; I'm glad if Brian managed to get through to him and made him understand that a bad score doesn't necessarily mean a bad performance - is not the end of the world. We all know he CAN do it - he has the skills, the talent, the passion, the ambition. Whether or not everything will fall into place when it matters... we'll see only then. We all want it really badly - most probably for him rather than for us - but if he and Brian are not worried about this, I think we should try not to waste too much energy worrying either. After all, they know better where they stand at this point in time. (I also think despite the PR talk about choosing Chopin and Seimei to increase the average, they also know it's unrealistic. Especially with new layout, increased difficulty and new jump. So in a way, my impression was that today was more or less according to the plan. For that matter, I got the impression ACI was according to Brian's plan, too... But that could be just my imagination).

 

- about the kid, some skaters do pick a gift or two to take to the K&C, but I wonder if Yuzu was advised not to, so as not to show favoritism and risk fan wars - his popularity has reached idol levels, so he has to be a bit careful to try to treat all fans equally and fairly. Also, encouraging gifts by flower kids would create a precedent and that'd be an issue. So IMO, he did the right thing.

 

- lastly, about the collar, I like it, but my impression from pictures was that his necklaces got tangled in the bling and that could definitely be an issue. (I always wondered if they don't bother him while skating... maybe he should tape them to his chest/neck, so they don't flutter about Like I think he does with one of the bracelets? or used to)

 

Looking forward to tomorrow, either way! (And to scrambling to find a place to watch the FS... I almost missed the SP today due to mini work meetings and generally work >_<)

Oooooooh...

 

(づ￣ ³￣)づ 

 

I see a considerable dose of harsh opinions mixed in with a generous sprinkling of lenient ones too. And some very reasonable ones for seasoning. And mostly favorable reactions to the new finishings on his costume to garnish.

 

Well, the guy did make it his mission to raise his consistency, and made that really strong-ass declaration, so it's understandable that those who became highly invested in that particular ideal would be disappointed. I imagine it's kinda like a political leader who promised his public the world and gets them on board his boat but fails to deliver strongly on his first agenda, maybe?

 

I'm on board with his plan, too, but because the details in between rarely ever goes according to script with him, and usually for reasons I don't feel comfortable judging him for, not having skated a mile in his boots, I'm more...hmmm...like, I'll be happy if he achieves his goal somewhat but all that really matters to me in the end is that he presents clean skates at the Olys. Heck, if I can't have both, I'll just take SEIMEI.

 

All said though, I can't say I'm disappointed with tonight. He wanted to stick with Chopin because he's comfortable with it but with all the changes he's made to it and the increased pressure of expectation for him to skate it clean seeing as it's a 3peat prog *and* he's set a WR with lower tech difficulty in the comp right before, I can't exactly say the the mini-implosion wasn't unexpected. And, like some here, as far as I'm concerned, it's also precisely because it's Chopin that he even managed to hang on enough despite the pressure, which, let's face it, is a completely different set to what he's experienced before, to manage these scores now. Had it been a new program, or even LGC, he'd be doing way worse and getting way less. 

 

And about the scores, on the contrary, I feel if the skate was done by anyone else *but * Hanyu, that skater would have gotten quite a bit less for the same showing, and I include both Uno and Fernandez in that fray, but maybe with Fernandez scoring less by only a little. 94ish is what he, Yuzuru Hanyu, rightfully deserves for what he delivered today. And it's not a bad score, even for him. Heck, for having lower difficulty than Chen, and a program that some perceive to be more stale than Chen's (gorgeous) new one, and not exactly void of mistakes (a fall even gasp!), he's barely six points behind a pretty much perfect Chen. Chen's score is less than Sochi PW's even, and that had only one miserable quad (it's a great quad but compared to what's going on today, that single 4T is practically paltry) at the beginning and triples in the second half. And here's a reminder: that prog was also a repeat. I mean, I expect Chen's SP will grow to surpass it as the season rolls on and if he is able to maintain his consistency and hopefully improve on the performance aspects further, he'd be deserving of it too.

 

If Hanyu manages a good-ish SEIMEI tomorrow, great. But if it turns out to not be the kind of showing people are hoping it'd be, I won't be utterly devastated either. I'm keeping my expectations both low and high at the same time. Low as in I don't really expect him to manage to do things exactly the way he's hoping to do them, even though I *am* hoping just as hard as him and everyone else that it'd somehow turn out that way for him (raising his average performance). High as in even if he flubs most other performances this season, I expect he'll bring it in his FS --no, it doesn't necessarily have to include a 4Lz, but it'd definitely have 5 quads with 3 of them in the second half--in at least one comp. No prizes as to which comp I'm hoping it'll be. ^_~ 

 

Note: I usually have no strong opinions about his costumes, I either love them or I'm okay with them but...yeeeeah, that gold dangly collar necklace motif around the neck of his new outfit is going to take a lot of getting used to for me. It reminds me too much of...well, those gold dangly collar necklaces that divas like to wear and it's really distracting to keep seeing it and thinking that's what it looks like. Like, it still gets all up in your face even when his jacket is on. >_< Here's hoping that it'll grow on me with time because I fully understand it's all about how he feels about it, not us--and yes it's really obvious what he wants it to mean, just when I thought he couldn't get any less subtle with all those gold trimmings on his FS costume--but I wouldn't complain if he decided to go back to his last one because he thinks the  new costume is partially responsible for his imperfect skate this time around. Just sayin'.

 

Also, I've seen lots of chatter of people not really expecting him to win at this event. That could only mean people already expect him to make mistakes. I guess I know now this means they were only expecting it for his FS, in that he'd bomb it badly enough to garner a loss, if most are actually thinking he'd give a perfect showing of an SP with a layout he'd only managed to nail once in a single ice show that happened months and months ago.

 

7 時間前, SparkleSaladさんが言いました:

 

I'm starting to think if he's not injured he can't break WRs...

 

...then I can very surely say I'd rather he not achieve another WR ever, if that's the kind of sacrifice he has to make every time for it to happen.

27 minutes ago, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ said:

...then I can very surely say I'd rather he not achieve another WR ever, if that's the kind of sacrifice he has to make every time for it to happen.

+1!

BTW, on the subject of the 'judges are tired of Chopin' concern trolling narrative:

LGC SP at NHK 2016, with only a mistake (stepout) on the 4Lo and a gorgeous +3 on his 3A, got 46.54 PCS. 

COR 2017 Chopin SP, with 4Lo mistake, 4T3T hands down fall and a gorgeous +3 on his 3A, got 46.61 PCS.

Now, one might want to go about screaming overscoring before running with the idea the judges think Chopin is old shit.

 

I mean, I'm fine with people not liking him repeating Chopin again. Heck, up until I saw the new version, I was up in arms about it too! That's fair. Especially when it's not really helping him be THAT consistent in his SP (yet). 

 

But the judges not being 'impressed' has absolutely no logic to stand on in this narrative.

 

I have to admit I'm seriously! happy actually, just because there were no pops. Sure, the program had it's amount of issues, but the layout was complete and the errors are not notorious ones. He's not one to fall uncountable amounts of jumps, certainly doesn't have an UR problem and is not having issues with his speed in general either. It feels like this is something he can easily work with.

The recent pops on the other hand feeling like a mental issue, more than a technical one, that is threatening to become stuck. (He was not really known to be a "popstar" in that sense before the long injury break), so I'm happy for every program without one! May he ultimately repel the demons, if there are any.

Also helps I was not going to be shook by 80 points for first GP (even 70 if it weren't for 3.0)

Wow, I just returned home from the arena and as usual: the thread is almost impossible to catch up. I'm sorry, guys, I have no logical arguments: his performance just bombed me from inside. I stupidly thought that I saw everything as far as I saw H&L live in Helsinki. I was wrong. After the last stsq I forgot about  loop, about fall, about everything. Breathtaking. My mother, who was with me, sad, after this stsq it seemed that nobody had any stsq at all today. The whole performance was saved and became a total beauty (because problems with jumps had some negative effect on the general impression before it, but after - no way). 

you can see Plushy

He deserves the score. And if people think his PCS is too high you must see it live. the flow on the ice he made is unmatched. 

He will be in the zone tomorrow and he will do well. the best thing from this is that he rotated everything. it is a good sign.

 

 

I have to say that I am really put off by several of the critical comments of Yuzu here. You expect him to skate every program perfectly up to and including the Olympics?

 

He's a human being, not a fucking robot.