General Yuzuru Chat

[Puniyo]

1 hour ago, itiahs said:

It's interesting to see the depression of yuzu's GOEs laid out like this

I still can't stop laughing at the pictures they have chosen for the skaters 

 

Laughing aside, it's really hard for me to understand how certain skaters get better GOEs than Yuzu for a lot of elements (the 4Lo and the 3A is like ). Well... fair judging... *cough*

[liv]

No one should ever get better GOEs than yuzu on any 3A!!  Never, ever, ever. Not possible.... ok, possible, but only if he flubs it himself. 

[Hydroblade]

Am I the only one who can't watch fancams bc it's just a painful reminder that I couldn't be there?

[unicorn]

1 hour ago, itiahs said:

It's interesting to see the depression of yuzu's GOEs laid out like this

Thanks for the link! Interesting stuff. Despite Google Translate, I'm not sure I understand how equal GOEs are rewarded 1st/2nd/3rd place distinctions, it appears to be by whatever occurred first in the calendar year? I don't quite agree with that, so if same GOE = same "placement", 3 of his "2nd place finishes" would be 1sts (StSq4, CSSp4, 4Lo) and 2 3rds would be 2nd (CCoSp4, 3Lz). Of course, others would have to be recalculated as well.

The GOEs on Yuzuru's 4Lo are funny, especially in the SP. I can't think of a single male skater in the world doing as hard transitions into/out of a solo quad as a spread eagle-4Lo-spread eagle, and yet he hasn't even cracked +2.50 GOE (+2.43 at Worlds, +2.29 at 4CC ), let alone the highest GOE for a solo quad in the SP this season. Where's the arguments that SE-3As deserve as much kudos as counter-3As, but his "immaculate" SE-4Lo-SE(-then some ina bauers, mohawks, pivots and other footwork ) don't even have the unanimous highest GOE It gets basically the same judging as his easier 4Lo in the FS. Where's the incentive to do difficult, creative, and musical transitions?

Both his SE-3A-SEs in imperfect Chopin programs got +3.00 GOE (COC14 and SC2015), why are judges so unimpressed by his LGC SE-4Lo-SE? Oh judging.

ETA: Okay, I knew I remembered correctly, he got a +2.57 for his 4Lo at WTT. Unfortunately doesn't explain why marks for his great SP 4Los are so stingy.

[meoima]

35 minutes ago, unicorn said:

Thanks for the link! Interesting stuff. Despite Google Translate, I'm not sure I understand how equal GOEs are rewarded 1st/2nd/3rd place distinctions, it appears to be by whatever occurred first in the calendar year? I don't quite agree with that, so if same GOE = same "placement", 3 of his "2nd place finishes" would be 1sts (StSq4, CSSp4, 4Lo) and 2 3rds would be 2nd (CCoSp4, 3Lz). Of course, others would have to be recalculated as well.

The GOEs on Yuzuru's 4Lo are funny, especially in the SP. I can't think of a single male skater in the world doing as hard transitions into/out of a solo quad as a spread eagle-4Lo-spread eagle, and yet he hasn't even cracked +2.50 GOE (+2.43 at Worlds, +2.29 at 4CC ), let alone the highest GOE for a solo quad in the SP this season. Where's the arguments that SE-3As deserve as much kudos as counter-3As, but his "immaculate" SE-4Lo-SE(-then some ina bauers, mohawks, pivots and other footwork ) don't even have the unanimous highest GOE It gets basically the same judging as his easier 4Lo in the FS. Where's the incentive to do difficult, creative, and musical transitions?

Both his SE-3A-SEs in imperfect Chopin programs got +3.00 GOE (COC14 and SC2015), why are judges so unimpressed by his LGC SE-4Lo-SE? Oh judging.

ETA: Okay, I knew I remembered correctly, he got a +2.57 for his 4Lo at WTT. Unfortunately doesn't explain why marks for his great SP 4Los are so stingy.

1st) judges don't want him win after Boston. That's for sure. They wanted anyone else (Javi, Shoma, Nathan) but Yuzuru.

2nd) judges think 4Lo is inferior, aka Mishin's style, they think 4lo doesn't worth it, that 4F and 4lz are the future. Even though the reality is that 4Lo and 4F have the same values almost. And frankly 4Lo is even more difficult to control.

3rd) judges give out scores based on whom they want. Looking at the scores you understand whom they love the most even when those skaters messed up. Those who get saved and generous GOE and PCS even when they messed some elements. It's so clear this season they want Javi, Shoma and... Nathan in the second half of the season. 

[unicorn]

17 minutes ago, meoima said:

1st) judges don't want him win after Boston. That's for sure. They wanted anyone else (Javi, Shoma, Nathan) but Yuzuru.

2nd) judges think 4Lo is inferior, aka Mishin's style, they think 4lo doesn't worth it, that 4F and 4lz are the future. Even though the reality is that 4Lo and 4F have the same values almost. And frankly 4Lo is even more difficult to control.

3rd) judges give out scores based on whom they want. Looking at the scores you understand whom they love the most even when those skaters messed up. Those who get saved and generous GOE and PCS even when they messed some elements. It's so clear this season they want Javi, Shoma and... Nathan in the second half of the season. 

I do think he was held to a higher standard this season compared to both his competitors and his own marks last season, hopefully it was honestly that the judges didn't like his programs and that made them mark harshly (it would be completely unjustified, but at least it means if he got programs the judges liked, then scoring would be better).

@meoima you also bring up something I've been thinking about, is the 4Lo really not at difficult as the 4F? At least with the 4Lz, you have the counter-rotation (set-up lobe different from the landing lobe), but is the 4F really so much more difficult? The sample size is so small for those who do quads, there's barely any research/statistics to justify why the 4Lo is less difficult. Maybe for triples, the 3F/3Lz are more difficult because you have to master the inside/outside edge take off from the opposite foot, but once you have the mechanic down, the toe pick when doing a quad helps you stabilize and power through the jump, while edge jumps are completely about timing and your own strength to snap up into rotation, which is exponentially more difficult for quads. When you hear Kurt Browning describe how edge quads are so difficult for him to imagine, you question even more if the Scale of Values accurately depicts the differences.

[gladi]

12 minutes ago, unicorn said:

I do think he was held to a higher standard this season compared to both his competitors and his own marks last season, hopefully it was honestly that the judges didn't like his programs and that made them mark harshly (it would be completely unjustified, but at least it means if he got programs the judges liked, then scoring would be better).

@meoima you also bring up something I've been thinking about, is the 4Lo really not at difficult as the 4F? At least with the 4Lz, you have the counter-rotation (set-up lobe different from the landing lobe), but is the 4F really so much more difficult? The sample size is so small for those who do quads, there's barely any research/statistics to justify why the 4Lo is less difficult. Maybe for triples, the 3F/3Lz are more difficult because you have to master the inside/outside edge take off from the opposite foot, but once you have the mechanic down, the toe pick when doing a quad helps you stabilize and power through the jump, while edge jumps are completely about timing and your own strength to snap up into rotation, which is exponentially more difficult for quads. When you hear Kurt Browning describe how edge quads are so difficult for him to imagine, you question even more if the Scale of Values accurately depicts the differences.

 

I'm wondering if there could also be an argument to be made for the quad loop being harder to execute consistently across a variety of ice conditions, compared to toe quads? I remember Takahashi testing out the ice at Gangneung and making an offhand comment that the ice there was easy for edge jumps. So additionally, I'm also wondering what kind of ice condition is favorable for edge jumps, and if there are parallel concerns for toe jumps?

 

[Yuzu Beloved Angel]

OMG !!! Finally I managed to reach them. I was away for a few days and only found over 100 pages to read. It's too late to say but I loved this new place. Congratulations to the administrators. This perfect, beautiful and very welcoming.

I gave up on seeing the protocols so I did not have a fit of rage. Not worth it. Yuzuru is above injustice. The boy is an extremely intelligent perfectionist. He certainly has his strategic design for next season and will do his best to reach his goals. The Judges do not want Yuzu, but the whole universe is by his side and nothing can erase his light.
I leave this MAD with Yuzu's beautiful smile. Happy! Happy! Very happy!

 

[SparkleSalad]

2 hours ago, Hydroblade said:

Am I the only one who can't watch fancams bc it's just a painful reminder that I couldn't be there?

I sometimes can't watch because I get stuck staring at your profile picture and then it's a week later.

[Hydroblade]

19 minutes ago, SparkleSalad said:

I sometimes can't watch because I get stuck staring at your profile picture and then it's a week later.

#sorrynotsorry

[SparkleSalad]

1 minute ago, Hydroblade said:

#sorrynotsorry

I went and watched that CM making to see what that face was about and he's just asking about how to hold the gum packet. Then changes instantly back to a sweet smile. It's so scary and hypnotising.

 

[the50person]

1 hour ago, SparkleSalad said:

I went and watched that CM making to see what that face was about and he's just asking about how to hold the gum packet. Then changes instantly back to a sweet smile. It's so scary and hypnotising.

 

It was innocent headtilt > demure lowering of eyelids > normal raising of eyelids > steadying of gaze> BAM! Gaze suddenly deepens into a bottomless pool + sudden change in eyes and onset of smolder with a scary narrowing of eyes + lips slightly apart which all come together to produce an intimidating expression

 

Like HOW

[xeyra]

Just now, the50person said:

It was innocent headtilt > demure lowering of eyelids > normal raising of eyelids > steadying of gaze> BAM! Gaze suddenly deepens into a bottomless pool + sudden change in eyes and onset of smolder with a scary narrowing of eyes + lips slightly apart which all come together to produce an intimidating expression

 

Like HOW

 

You have studied this very deeply, I see. 

[Xen]

I've also made my way from GS to here. Regarding the question of jumps- edge jumps vs toe jumps. Personally, I don't like Loop jumps, and find it difficult to get the height I want (flip and lutz on the other hand have more interesting timing but you can really launch into them). As for ice, toe jumps are a bit more stable across all ice types, but I personally find slightly softer ice preferable for edge jumps, just because I'm less likely to skid when taking off. Hmm...now I feel like I need to find a slightly softer ice surface to test this out on, since the one I normally skate on has slightly harder ice...

[Fay]

9 minutes ago, Xen said:

I've also made my way from GS to here. Regarding the question of jumps- edge jumps vs toe jumps. Personally, I don't like Loop jumps, and find it difficult to get the height I want (flip and lutz on the other hand have more interesting timing but you can really launch into them). As for ice, toe jumps are a bit more stable across all ice types, but I personally find slightly softer ice preferable for edge jumps, just because I'm less likely to skid when taking off. Hmm...now I feel like I need to find a slightly softer ice surface to test this out on, since the one I normally skate on has slightly harder ice...

 

Welcome, a fellow emigre! And it's always great to have a skater and an expert here!