Now that this season is over for Yuzu...

[yuzuangel]

How do Otoñal, Origin, and Haru Yo Koi measure up in terms of your all time favorite Yuzu programs?! Especially now that everything's been skated, if not up to potential, then close to it. 

 

For me...Otoñal is my all time favorite Yuzu program. Funny right? The first moment I saw it at ACI I was in love. It was everything I wanted and more. It's funny, the more Yuzu "skates for himself" and skates very...Yuzu-like (for lack of a better word), the more I like it. For example, Requiem for Heaven and Earth was my previous favorite Yuzu program ever, and he skates very true to his style there. And the ACI version is still my favorite, because he truly doesn't care about points there and just does whatever he wants!

 

Origin is a pretty decent FS in my opinion, although I don't think he ever truly skated it up to potential due to health reasons. I'd rank it below Seimei (and R+J1.0 which is my fave FS) and above Phantom of the Opera.

 

Haru Yo Koi I'd rank tied with Notte Stellata and below Requiem. 

 

What do you guys think? 

[Sukigirl]

This is fun, thanks for starting the thread.

 

 Otonal was skated beautifully in Helsinki and even better at CoR and because we could see it realised to its potential, its the best of the three for me. But it doesn’t come close to Ballade, which is my favourite short (especially Olys version) and ranks just behind LGC.

 

Origin I like, but for reasons other than the composition of the piece itself. I mean, who doesn’t love the hair, the costume, the murderface vibes which go so well with the aesthetic. But from a choreographic standpoint, apart from the stunning IB, it ranks behind Seimei for me, which worked so well because of its clearly defined arc and how all the jumps and spins worked together. Perhaps if he had skated it clean, and had been able to insert the 4A at the beginning to the sounds of the gongs, the entire piece might have changed. What I love about Origin however is the confidence and maturity that Yuzu brings to the programme. The boy who skated R&J at 17 would not have been able to pull off Origin (regardless of what jumps were included). Origin needs to be skated by a man, and Yuzu brought it.

 

An unpopular opinion, but I’m iffy on Haru yo koi. Can’t explain it, but it doesn’t grab me the way Notte Stellata did, or even Requiem. So it would come after Notte and Requiem in that order.

[ralucutzagy]

IM bias O, both Otonal and Origin are great programs, difficult and beautifully choreographed but shadowed by the reactions of Yuzu's idols (a let down...)... My hope is that he will let them go and get two new programs, totally his, like H&L and SEIMEI were. Two gems! 

My fave this season was Otonal, I liked the music, the costume (blue is the best color for Yuzu, it makes him look like an Ice Prince - again IM evil Fanyu O) and Yuzu skated it perfectly at CoR!

Origin remained at the "work in progress" level, due to Yuzu's injury and maybe lack of practice ... well, Yuzu made miracles in his condition ...

HYK is entirely an Yuzu EX! Music, costume (Yuzu knows what a real Gala costume means, not just a pair of jeans and a white T) and everything else! Lovely and full of emotion like Notte Stellata, Requiem and FTT were. My all time fave remains NS! 

Tbh, I'm both excited and worried abt the next season.

[anski]

Otoñal used to be my favorite Yuzu program but I think now the kuyashii vibe of Origin is more attractive altho Yuzu didn’t skate it 100% due to injury. All in all his programs this season are my favorite of his; they really set him apart from other skaters and bring something different to the sport.

[hoodie axel]

@yuzuangel Can we have a program discussion thread for the rest of the skaters too? I would love to read all the opinions!

 

Here is my ranking (starting from 2011-12 season), based purely on what I can remember. I expect it will change if I sat down to rewatch and analyze, lol. Dead sure about the number 1 in each list, though.

 

LP:

 

1. Romeo and Juliet 2011-12

2. Hope and Legacy

3. Origin (I think this was able to bring out better depth at points, but I think this and Seimei are kind of equal?)

4. Seimei

 

5. POTO

6. Romeo and Juliet 2013-14

7. Notre Dame de Paris

 

SP:

 

1. Étude in D-sharp minor, Op. 8, No. 12

2. Parissiene Walkways

3. Let's Go Crazy

 

4. Chopin Ballade No. 1 (might as well rank... I like the Olympics version much more than the first two versions of this)

5. Otonal

[makebelieveup]

While it has its own beauty, having done Chopin for three seasons before Otonal makes it hard for me to not see a lot of similarities between the two. As much as I love Otonal, I can't help but often compared it to Chopin. It is def better than Chopin 1.0, and maybe Chopin 2.0 in terms of complexity, but isnt as passionate and intense as Chopin 3.0, which to me is Yuzu's biggest masterpiece for the short, understandably so. I do think Otonal has room to grow but I dont want him to keep this program. I had wished he would skate it squeaky clean for WTT but since he isnt competing, I will resort to his COR perf, which is still a breathtaking beauty. Just preference wise, I am putting it above LGC but below Chopin and Parisienne Walkways.

 

I am not the biggest fan of Origin...yet. I said this many times but I think it is just way too intensed. I think the 4 min constraint is also one of the reasons why this program has not been able to be at its full potential. The thing about Origin is it is super packed in such a short span of time and Yuzu hasnt had the energy to skate to this program the way he wants yet...but it has the wow factor of its difficult technical content like the 4t3a. I put together a video with each element he did best from all four competitions and it's def much more refined. I think I am placing it after Hope and Legacy and Seimei for now. And yeah maybe my RJ 1.0 baby too since I just adore that program so much. I do think he will repeat it unfortunately but it isnt a bad idea.

 

HYK is simply a Yuzu styled ex. Masterpiece in terms of performance but it isnt as memorable as Notte Stellata nor as touching as Requiem. It isnt my fave ex, tbh.

[yuzuangel]

28 minutes ago, hoodie axel said:

@yuzuangel Can we have a program discussion thread for the rest of the skaters too? I would love to read all the opinions!

Sure, feel free to start the thread in the General Skating subforum!

[faeline]

It is a bit hard for me to rank because all of his programs gave me different chills and goosebumps - I'm gonna go by how numb my skull feels after watching it.

 

FS

1) Hope and Legacy Worlds2017 - Full on numb, 100% Fanyu convert after watching so I guess... hehehe

2) R+J V1.0 GPF2011/Worlds2012 - The step sequence!! It felt like he was burning the essence of life to deliver that program!

3) PoTO CoC2014/WTT2015 - I watched CoC once and can't bear to watch it again, it was like a moment straight out of a manga. WTT2015 had him saying goodbye to Christine, I died there.

4) Seimei NHK2015/GPF2015/OWG2018 - The dominance of this man... and his smiles were the broadest there.

5) Origin CoF2018/CoR2018/Worlds2019- It's a shame that he was basically nursing an injury half of the time, and the other half of the time has shit ice. Only really felt the program in Worlds2019.

6) R+J2.0 OWG2014/Worlds2015 - some goosebumps, not much there, didn't feel much of the program except R+J2.0 in Worlds2015, mainly from how he tried to come back from behind.

 

SP

1) Chopin Ballade No. 1 OWG2018 - Specifically that Ina Bauer with closed eyes. At that point I needed to calm my self down and repeat to myself - he's 12 years younger than me... It also basically became the Chopin I'd watch if I needed a Chopin fix.

2) Let's Go Crazy GPF2016 - Let's just say it's a guilty pleasure, I always feel so dirty after watching it.

3) Otonal CoR2018 - The step sequence is amazing. And his hands! HIS HANDS!!

4) Parissiene Walkways OWG2014 - All kicks after 3A is a kick straight to my heart

 

EX

1) Notte Stellata CoR2017/OWG2018 - It is so beautiful. I can only repeat these 4 words.

2) Haru yo, Koi CoR2018/Worlds2019 - It is only marginally lower because I prefer Swanyu.

3) Hana ni Nare - I'm not sure what version it is, probably in ICE Shows/TV shows. I felt it.

4) Requiem - I don't even know which version I watched, I found it too painful to finish watching. Watched it once and never touched it with a 10 ft pole.

 

Hmm I spoke too much I feel. Sorry!

 

[glilikoi]

5 hours ago, hoodie axel said:

@yuzuangel

 

SP:

1. Étude in D-sharp minor, Op. 8, No. 12

 

I don't have the energy to write a full list right now but just wanted to say I'm so glad to see Étude appreciation! It's one of my favourite Yuzu SPs. The technical content might not be as impressive as some of his later programs, but it's so full of emotion and just beautiful, especially knowing its context. I remember seeing a short interview where Yuzu said Étude is meant to reflect on the force of nature (tsunami) as something that's detached from the human experience, it just happens. So it's an interesting contrast to Requiem which reflects on the human reaction/feelings that arise from the disaster. I love the music, the step sequence and the costume of Étude. Just hope there were more better-quality videos of it available. 

[rockstaryuzu]

I have to say Origin is my favorite of this season, although I'm pretty sure it hasn't been skated to it's full potential ...yet. (because who knows- maybe we'll see it again.) I like it because it puts away the cute boy he was and brings forth the very passionate man that he is clearly becoming. To me it represents everything that Yuzu is as a competitor - all the fierceness, all the strength - and puts it together in a fresh way. I like that you can see a story in the music and you can see the music in his movements. I know Yuzu didn't really intend for this program to be a tribute to Nijinsky, but I'd wager good money that if Nijinsky were alive to see it, he'd recognize himself in it. (Aside: It would be interesting to hear male lead ballet dancers assess men's figure skating from a ballet perspective. I wonder what they'd think of the performances.)

 

Otonal I admire objectively, but it isn't my cup of tea generally speaking. What I love about Otonal is that you can so clearly see that Yuzu loves skating it, especially that step sequence. And the hydroblade leap is to die for. 

 

All in all, H&L at WC17 is still tops for me of all Yuzu's performances, and Olys Seimei and all the LGC's are still my faves of his competition programs. 

 

Now, HYK I very much like. It's the nicest of his recent exes, IMO. It's delicate and lovely and has just the right amount of content to hold your interest, without being too much for an ex. I hope it sticks around for a while. 

 

 

[dheu]

Just the highlights for me in where the new programs rank, I won't include everything.  Sorry for the wall of text.  Once I got started, I couldn't stop myself. 

 

FS

1. Seimei -- I love the power and thrill of his skating in this program, and the choreography is really interesting.  This was the first program of his that I really, deeply fell in love with.  The step sequence at the end always gets me fired up.  Favorite performance: Olympics 2018.  It may not be a flawless performance, but this is the one I feel the most, with the way he fought for it and the beauty of all his movements.
2. Romeo & Juliet V1.0 -- I like the choreography and the music for this program a lot, and I love his sit-spin twizzles.  Favorite performance: Nice 2012.  The raw passion and talent is so obvious, and this particular performance was so mesmerizing.  The first time I saw this, I gasped out loud at that moment he fell, because I was so lost in his skating it was almost a shock to the system.  And then his scream before the step sequence... chills!
3. Hope and Legacy -- H&L is an opaque program to me.  What that means is that it feels undefined, there is no obvious story or emotion to it, and when he skates it he seems remote from the audience.  Some of his other programs draw you in, but H&L does not for me.  Instead, it feels like a dance he is performing for himself, like a mad skating god dancing on a hidden pond, and we just happen to be hiding in the bushes watching it.  It is captivating and beautiful, and yet distant somehow.  I don't know how to describe how I feel about this program; hopefully that makes sense.  Favorite performance: Of course Worlds 2017.
4. Origin -- Origin is brilliant and fascinating and full of fiery power and remote fury, maybe like that mad skating god raging at us for spying on him, lol.  I love what we've seen so far (although I mourn the loss of the sit-spin twizzles...).  But particularly the 4T-3A, which may not give him the most points from a technical standpoint, but damn it looks beautiful and I love it!  I would put Origin higher but I just don't feel like we've seen it to the full extent of its beauty yet.  It may be an unpopular opinion, but I would like to see it come back next season just so he can perfect it.  Although I will still stand by what I said in the other thread: that it feels like it should be a performance piece instead of a competition piece.  Favorite performance: Worlds 2019.

SP

1. Otonal -- My new favorite SP, and maybe my favorite program of his ever.  Every movement is important to building the overall feeling of the performance, and the step sequence is gorgeous, particularly the movement from low hydroblade to soaring ballet jump.  That is my favorite moment of choreography ever.  Favorite performance: Rostelecom 2018.  While I like the music cut from ACI better because it generally fit the choreography better, I think I like the overall performance at Rostelecom the most.  He is beautiful and so smooth in his presentation, and the step sequence has been changed slightly into one that flows much better.
2. Chopin Ballade No. 1 -- This one is almost up on the same level as Otonal, just not quite.  What more can I say about it?  It is just... breathtaking.  The choreography might as well have been created at the same moment as the music itself, it fits together so well.  Favorite performance:  Olympics 2018.  I love how frenetic he is during the wilder moments of the music, during his step sequence.  It's like he just becomes the music.  Exhilarating!
3. Parisienne Walkways -- I love this because he doesn't do enough of this kind of program: swaggering, rock-star-level charisma over the ice and over the audience.  It's just awesome.  Favorite performance: Olympics 2014.  He looks like he is having so much fun.  I can't help but grin like an idiot watching this performance, and it's just flawless from beginning to end.

EX

1. Notte Stellata -- I cry watching this one.  It is truly beautiful.  His delayed axel is so gorgeous!  Enough said.    Favorite performance:  All of them.
2. Haru Yo Koi  -- This one is just below Notte Stellata for me.  It is also truly beautiful and touches my heart.  My favorite moment is the ice thrown into the air, although the super-low hydroblade is lovely too.  And the delayed axel!  Favorite performance:  Helsinki 2018.  Something about this performance is special to me.  The lighting is gorgeous, and he floats across the ice like a cherry blossom fairy.  The only thing is I wish they had drawn the camera back a bit more for when he throws the ice into the air, but that detracts nothing from his joyous and ethereal performance.  Just look at that expression on his face at the end!  

 

[monchan]

I don't think I like the programs as much as I like Yuzu's delivery of them. Like it's his skating that makes it outstanding, the composition isn't as amazing as Ballade/SEIMEI/H&L. But if you talk about refreshing transitions, new elements he included compared to the past, I think they deserve credits. 

 

I hope he ditches DW next ss. He ran out of ideas after Notte. HYK, again, makes sense becuz of Yuzu's heartfelt delivery. His skating is so refined, while I would rank it lower than Swan and Requiem but not other older ex, becuz Yuzu has improved a lot in skating and interpretation of music. Requiem remains as the ultimate top ex, I've never been more touched by a FS program.

 

The ss just ended and I'm already thinking about his choice for next ss lol. Now he did enough tributes, it's time to move on with a brand new Hanyu. No more recycle pls

[Bilge]

I'm really bad atranking my favourite programs because when i put one to No.1 i feel but there is that too and it goes on like that XD

 

Maybe i can say 

 

SP: Chopin (olympic vers the most but why not all:)), Lets Go Crazy, Otonal, (top 3 constantly changing between them) Parisienne Walkways 

FS: Hope and Legacy, Seimei, Otonal

Ex: Requiem, Notte Stellata, Haru yo Koi

 

So all the made it on my top 3 of each category. Maybe because of his delivery and different choreographic touches.

 

More to tha i love the meaning of each program and their harmony. Also the metaphors like fire and ice, autumn/winter, spring etc. 

 

Although i really liked them i prefer them (and the costumes, Origin might be my favourite costume of him up there with the swan, maybe i have a thng for feathers) staying as a one tribute season thing.

 

[ZuCritter]

I find Otonal absolutely stunning every time I watch it, especially the CoR version. The emotional arc is so profound and rendered in such detail, it gives me chills. Ballade has the same intensity and jaw-dropping fidelity to the music, but for me it isn't quite as emotionally nuanced. LGC is brilliant, but I don't think it reflects Yuzu's essence the way Otonal does. 

 

I'm not as taken with Origin, and I don't think that's only because injuries have prevented Yuzu from perfecting it. My favorite performance is actually CoR, because of the intensity he brought to it. Worlds was an excellent skate, but I felt he was very calculating and conserving his energy, presumably because his physical conditioning wasn't where it needed to be. CoR had a YOLO quality that elevated it despite the injury-related missteps. But to get back to the program itself, I don't think Origin has the emotional range and dynamism of Seimei, which is my favorite by a pretty wide margin. Of course, those additional 30 seconds in Seimei gave Shae-Lynn and Yuzu more time to build character and modulate emotions. But I suspect that even a 4-minute Seimei would still strike me as the quintessential Yuzuru Hanyu program.

 

As for HYK, I don't find it as profound or moving as Swanyu. Gorgeous, yes, and the super-low hydroblade is to-die-for. But Notte Stellata touches me to my core, and HYK doesn't. Bottom line: I'm not a DW fan, at least when it comes to choreographing for Yuzu -- with the huge exception of Swanyu. 

 

 

[Paskud]

First, in terms of composition alone Yuzuru's programs are very good. Period.

 

Otoñal: I loooove how all jumps are in first half, so then whole viewer's attention is concentrated at spins and step sequence. I love calm, melancholic jumps, delicate spins and passionate StSq. I think there is still part between 3a and combo, that can be polished or adjusted, but imo work is in 95% done. It's hard to place Otoñal in my subjective ranking. It's definitely not LGC and Chopin v3 level of ideal, but I'm sure it would be there, if only that part between axel and combo was perfected.

Costume: 8/10

 

Origin: Oh boy... Media day gave a lot of promise, but then changes happened. Combo where peviously was solo jump. Flip where before was axel. Every jump has diffrent rhythm and, for example, he can smash fast transitions before axel, but flip has obligatory 3x 3-turn entry, not as fast and sharp, and it changes in my eyes whole harmony. Problems with condition did not help. It's obviously one of the best men programs this season, but among Zu's works with Shae-Lynn Bourne I like Origin the least. And, please Zuzu, never come back to Marton's music. You can do better.

Costume: 3/10 - For me it's too much when you have delicate lace on whole body AND sparkles everywhere AND feathers. It's funny, because sometimes I see photos, where you can see only lace and feathers and it looks quite nice. Then there are gifs and photos with dark colours and you see only blings from sparkles and again it looks good. Then I see videos and photos when you can see everything and at the same time you see nothing. Lace and sparkles are too small to do clear pattern. Without them there is only... shirt with v-neck. Seimei v1 had similar problem, but there was at least clear design of Onmyouji raiment.

 

Haru Yo Koi: Another funny story. I literaly cried when I first saw it during FaOI. Sweet piano music, pink costume, Zuzu's light skating and his delicate beauty was unexpectable and ultimate death to me. During ice shows it looked like sketch (well, obviously - it was done in 1-2 quick sessions) and I thought it's like a ambitious project for him, where he has overall placements of elements and then adds with time more and more touches. And it looks like that was a plan - every version has new parts added here or there. Probably if we could see it... four times more, it would look differently. For now in my purely subjective ranking of Zuzu's ex programs it's behind Swan, Requiem and Hana ni Nare. Equally to The Final Time Traveler.

Costume: 7/10 - Without front it's one of my absolutely favourite costumes. I love how soft it looks on photos.