16 hours ago, Lunna said:

Disaster competition  I feel like only Voronov deserved a medal today. Mika was his usual self, at least second part was good. I dunno what happened to Shoma and Nate: are they too tired, too much presser or maybe 5 quads in FS are really too much? And can Nate have a new shirt already?

 

My question is: also how many times Nathan and Shoma landed not 5, but at least 4 clean quads and with positive GOEs?

 

If I saw well this is the situation for Nathan starting from last season (his first senior):

1) Finlandia Trophy 2016: only 1 quad (the 4T in the combo)

2) TdF 2016: 2 quads (the 4Lz in the initial combo, and the 4F)

3) NHK 2016: 2 quads (the 4F in combo, and the 4T in combo)

4) GPF 2016: 4 quads with positive GOE, from 2.00 (first quad) to 0.71 (last one)

5) 4CC 2017: 4 quads with positive GOE, from 2.43 (first quad) to 1.29 (last one); here attempted also the 5th quad

6) WC 2017: 2 quads (the 4F combo and the single 4F)

7) USA IC 2017: 2 quads (planned apparently to do so)

8) CoR 2017: 4 quads with positive GOE, from 2.00 (first quad) to 0.57 (the 3rd)

9) SA 2017: 2 quads (4Lz in the initial combo and the single 4Lz)

10) GPF 2017: 2 quads (4Lz in the initial combo and the 4T in the combo)

 

So in the last 10 comps Nathan landed 1 quad in one, 2 quad in six, and 4 quads only in three. In these last the GOEs have never surpassed 2.43 and are in average about 2.00 for 4Lz and 4Lz combo, much lesser (0.50-1.80) for the other quads.

 

Now for Shoma (not counting the eventual UR problem...):

1) LT 2016: only 1 quad (4T)

2) SA 2016: 3 quads (4F,  4T and 4T in the combo), with positive GOE, from 2.29 (2nd quad) to 1.43 (last one)

3) Cor 2016: 2 quads (4F and 4T)

4) GPF 2016: 2 quads (4F and 4T in the combo)

5) 4CC 2017: 3 quads (4Lo, 4F and 4T in the combo), with positive GOE, from 2.43 (1st quad) to 1.29 (last one)

6) WC 2017: 3 quads (4Lo, 4F and 4T in the combo), with positive GOE, from 2.14 (last quad) to 1.14 (2nd one)

7) LT 2017: 4 quads with positive GOE, from 2.00 (3rd quad) to 0.80 (first one)

8) SC 2017: 2 quads (4Lo and  4T in the combo)

9) IDF 2017: 2 quads (4Lo and  4T in the combo)

10) GPF 2017: 2 quads (4S and 4F)

 

So in the last 10 comps Shoma landed 1 quad in one, 2 quad in five, 3 quad in three and 4 quads only in one (Lombardia Trophy at the beginning of this season). In this last he GOEs have never surpassed 2.00 and are in average about 0.80-1.80 for the other quads.

* Source: http://skatingscores.com/

 

I know that they have to push and to try to have success, but it seems to me that they are still too far from that: Shoma seems now farther from this goal than Nathan; still we have to consider that Shoma has better PCS than Nathan. 

Pity that Yuzu is injured. I really hope that he can recover well and soon to see how he can fit and perform again in this sportive race.

And now - just to compare - the data for Yuzu (only 8 comps and more important without the last two of this season, because of the WD ):

 

1) ACI 2016: 2 quads (the 4Lo and the 4S)

2) SC 2016: 2 quads (the 4S and the 4t)

3) NHK 2016: 3 quads (the 4Lo, 4S and the 4T), with positive GOE, from 2.29 (2nd quad) to 1.57 (last one)

4) GPF 2016: 3 quads with positive GOE, from 2.57 (first quad) to 0.26 (last one)

5) 4CC 2017: 4 quads with positive GOE, from 2.14 (first quad) to 1.14 (last one in the combo)

6) WC 2017: 4 quads with positive GOE, from 2.71 (2nd quad) to 2.43 (last one in the combo)

7) ACI 2017: 1 quad (the 4S in the combo)

8) CoR 2017: 2 quads (the 4Lz and the 4T in the combo)

 

So in the last 8 comps Yuzu landed 1 quad in one, 2 quad in two, 3 quads in two and 4 quads in two. In these last the GOEs have never surpassed 2.71 and are in average from 2.14 to 1.14. It's interesting to see is his progression in the last season, then followed closely by Chen, who peaked too early to fail at WC though.

Yuzu PCS are still higher than those of Shoma and Nathan, also if not so much as in the first half of the last season.

*Source: http://skatingscores.com/

 

This year the trend for Nathan and Shoma for the moment seems more erratic than in the first part of the previous season. For Yuzu is not possible to say, obviously.

 

Edit: after the post of @LadyLou I corrected the data for GPF 2016 and the general count.

1 hour ago, xeyra said:

 

Because 2.51 isn't technically 1s overtime. It's 11s since the SP should be 2.40 in length, with +/- 10s as a leeway. So I guess it was really pushing it. Still kind of a stupid deduction to make.

Yes they were really pushing it with his music length. It was so close to the limit that an almost imperceptible movement of his hand was enough to bring him over the max time. But timekeepers in his previous comps weren't as crazy strict as this... I mean it was the same music and same choreo, and he never got penalised for it before.

 

I agree it was a rather dumb call... A defensible call. But still dumb 

2 hours ago, xeyra said:

Still kind of a stupid deduction to make.

 

24 minutes ago, katonice said:

I agree it was a rather dumb call... A defensible call. But still dumb 

 

He stole one second from the ISU. Time is money. He had to be punished. 

Maybe next time they can come to an agreement and instead of deducting one point they can force feed him some broccoli at the banquet or something.

2 minutes ago, Pamigena said:

 

 

He stole one second from the ISU. Time is money. He had to be punished. 

Maybe next time they can come to an agreement and instead of deducting one point they can force feed him some broccoli at the banquet or something.

 

I think he'd still rather take the deduction.

2 minutes ago, SparkleSalad said:

I think he'd still rather take the deduction.

 

"eat green stuff, gold medal, eat green stuff, gold medal... maybe I could suggest to eat the medal instead? At least it's not green. We're not in France after all."

 

yes it would probably be a tough decision for him 

5 hours ago, fireovertheice said:

And now - just to compare - the data for Yuzu (only 8 comps and more important without the last two of this season, because of the WD ):

 

1) ACI 2016: 2 quads (the 4Lo and the 4S)

2) SC 2016: 2 quads (the 4S and the 4t)

3) NHK 2016: 3 quads (the 4Lo, 4S and the 4T)

4) GPF 2016: 4 quads with positive GOE, from 2.00 (first quad) to 0.71 (last one)

5) 4CC 2017: 4 quads with positive GOE, from 2.14 (first quad) to 1.14 (last one in the combo)

6) WC 2017: 4 quads with positive GOE, from 2.71 (2nd quad) to 2.43 (last one in the combo)

7) ACI 2017: 1 quad (the 4S in the combo)

8) CoR 2017: 2 quads (the 4Lz and the 4T in the combo)

 

So in the last 8 comps Yuzu landed 1 quad in one, 2 quad in two, 3 quads in one and 4 quads in three. In these last the GOEs have never surpassed 2.71 and are in average from 2.14 to 1.40. It's interesting to see is his progression in the last season, then followed closely by Chen, who peaked too early to fail at WC though.

Yuzu PCS are still higher than those of Shoma and Nathan, also if not so much as in the first half of the last season.

 

This year the trend for Nathan and Shoma for the moment seems more erratic than in the first part of the previous season. For Yuzu is not possible to say, obviously.

Wow, thank you for this! So it looks like this Yuzu-is-not-a-real-quadster-and-is-chasing-the-young-ones and Yuzu-is-so-inconsistent narratives are absolutely not backed by any facts.

12 hours ago, fireovertheice said:

4) GPF 2016: 4 quads with positive GOE, from 2.00 (first quad) to 0.71 (last one)

Are you computing only quads in the free skate? In GPF 2016 Yuzu landed only 3 clean quads, iirc he fell on second 4S (and got the +REP). I remember 4CC was the first time he managed to land 4 quads.

ETA: I'm also confused about GOEs. In the scoresheet from ISU they are different

http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1617/gpf1617/gpf1617_Men_FS_Scores.pdf

2 hours ago, LadyLou said:

Are you computing only quads in the free skate? In GPF 2016 Yuzu landed only 3 clean quads, iirc he fell on second 4S (and got the +REP). I remember 4CC was the first time he managed to land 4 quads.

ETA: I'm also confused about GOEs. In the scoresheet from ISU they are different

http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1617/gpf1617/gpf1617_Men_FS_Scores.pdf

 

You are right: my bad. I don't know if a made a mistake in checking the scores on the Skating Scores site or if is a problem of wrong cut&paste (these are the data for Nathan...).

I am sorry about that: I will check again all the data to be sure they are right.  However I will edit the previous post adding also the sources (yesterday at the end I was a liitle in rush, so I didn't).

 

 

18 часов назад, katonice сказал:

Yes they were really pushing it with his music length. It was so close to the limit that an almost imperceptible movement of his hand was enough to bring him over the max time. But timekeepers in his previous comps weren't as crazy strict as this... I mean it was the same music and same choreo, and he never got penalised for it before.

 

I agree it was a rather dumb call... A defensible call. But still dumb 

At least it's better to have a deduction now than at Olys. They still have time to make small changes.

I can’t be the only one thinking Yuzu’s reputation and good prospects are intact now, right? I mean, his challengers failed to impress. Unless they get it together fast, we know he’s capable of exceeding this standard when it counts.

On 12/9/2017 at 1:00 AM, yuzuangel said:

Welp, regardless of how the competition went, congrats to Nathan. He's still undefeated this year! That's really really impressive. Hope he gets those issues fixed soon.

Actually if you count Japan Open (even tho it's only a free skate not the usual SP+FP) Nathan is behind Javi there  So Nathan is defeated once by Javi this season 

2 hours ago, freeyafanfan said:

Actually if you count Japan Open (even tho it's only a free skate not the usual SP+FP) Nathan is behind Javi there  So Nathan is defeated once by Javi this season 

 

Outside of US Classic where he only attempted 3 quads and did 2, Nathan has lost every free skating of the season so far. The potential I saw in his program at the beginning of the season keeps getting overshadowed by the increasing mistakes with the increasing technical difficulty. Especially when he drops all semblance of program outside of the step sequence and choreo sequence while trying to make up for falls or pops. Which is a pity because I do love the music choice of this program (though I prefer his SP) and some of the choreographic moves he does.

The most constructive criticism I’ve seen is that Nathan needs to pick a program layout and stick with it. Because the constant reshuffling means he isn’t developing the LP.

 

It seems like Nathan and Raf love tinkering with the jumps so much it absorbs their focus. That’s why a strong presence like Marina last season was helpful in arguing for the total package.