1 hour ago, xeyra said:

Mika's 4Lz was dinged by some judges on the lack of steps, as he should. No matter how amazing it was, it's not obeying SP requirements. It should not be getting +3s.

I guess it tends to get a bit confusing when judges aren't really applying the rules consistently.

Tbh, I'm pretty much ignoring this rule now since it's not clear to me that it's being applied anyway.

 

But yes, it's no excuse to criticise the scores when they do apply it.

I guess they're being fair in that case.

3 minutes ago, fireovertheice said:

 

If we speak also of GOE, the judges have been sure too generous on the Salchow: so in total 88+ could be the right score also for me. I do not know if this would put still in third because at the same time Tanaka was a little bit underscored. In this reputation played surely a role.

Oops I forgot Keiji. I think the gap between Keiji and Javi should be closer, or even tied. Keiji also had the best step sequence today, but the GOE was so low  

8 minutes ago, katonice said:

But yes, it's no excuse to criticise the scores when they do apply it.

I guess they're being fair in that case.

 

It is and it isn't. We could say that yes, it's fair towards Kolyada because he is being marked per rules, but it's not fair to him because the lack of application of the rules towards others is disadvantaging him when we look at the bigger picture.

 

It's like when Mark goes on about the rule but when his favorite Shoma does a little wiggle on ice that is most definitely not steps into a solo quad, then I don't really hear him. The problem is that the current wishy-washy application of the rules is being used to prop up some, while the others are being pushed down with the oh hey it's the rules excuse.

 

So they either call it for everyone, or they don't call it at all. Selective application is actually just plain politics and propping up of the chosen ones. Ideally they should of course apply the rule to everyone, but I'd prefer the rule completely ignored than the alternative sometimes yes, sometimes no because that is plain fudging. 

 

1 hour ago, katonice said:

I guess it tends to get a bit confusing when judges aren't really applying the rules consistently.

Tbh, I'm pretty much ignoring this rule now since it's not clear to me that it's being applied anyway.

 

But yes, it's no excuse to criticise the scores when they do apply it.

I guess they're being fair in that case.

 

Yeah, sadly it should either applied to all skaters by all judges or it should be scraped as a rule. Because if everyone can get +2/+3 on a good jump without steps, then why is Yuzu killing himself trying for a SE quad SE when he could crossover into a jump and get the same GOE and be more consistent at it too?

 

Edit: Not that he would... 

To be honest, I feel so conflicted on this issue of judging. On one hand, it is not fair to the skater who was called on it when other skaters with the same issue weren't. But then, if no call is given out, then it is unfair to the skaters who are actually abiding by the rules, and may even encourage all skaters to disregard the rules in their future programs.

Ideally, all skaters who do not follow the rules would be punished (and the ones who do are rewarded accordingly), but I guess the reality is this is not a perfect world.

I'd really like to see all the rules always applied because there are people actually following them and taking risks for that (and they're paying for those risks too). Selective "step before the solo jump", selective "falls" and all this b*****t make really look those who follow the rules like massive MORONS. And honestly it hurts to see it.

 

3 minutes ago, LadyLou said:

I'd really like to see all the rules always applied because there are people actually following them and taking risks for that (and they're paying for those risks too). Selective "step before the solo jump", selective "falls" and all this b*****t make really look those who follow the rules like massive MORONS. And honestly it hurts to see it.

 

Yeah, with you on that.

 

Either change the rules and be done with it or apply the rules equally and fairly. I mean, it's not like the rules were faxed directly from the skating gods, if they can't train judges to apply them, they can either bring in new rules to challenge judging or they can change the rules to suit the judging.

4 minutes ago, getsurenka said:

 But then, if no call is given out, then it is unfair to the skaters who are actually abiding by the rules, 

 

That's just it. Which ever way you turn, if they do a little bit of this, and a little bit of that, it is unfair to someone, in some way.

 

So either no rule for all, or rule for everyone. But that levels the playing field and I am afraid that's not what they want. They want a bit of wiggle room. And a little wiggle room here, and a little wiggle room there equals a massive headache in the end. 

At least there are judges trying for a modicum of rule application. Those few will justify their scores at the round table panel and maybe shame some into reading a rulebook. Maybe. Eh, who am I kidding. 

44 minutes ago, fireovertheice said:

@Katt said:

 

If we speak also of GOE, the judges have been sure too generous on the Salchow: so in total 88+ could be the right score also for me. I do not know if this would put still in third because at the same time Tanaka was a little bit underscored. In this reputation played surely a role.

I agree with everything you said here... I also think javi was overscored by 2-3point(from PCS and GOE) so that would put him around keiji's score if reputation and bias wasn't affecting the judging...And performance wise Keiji's was just more THERE today than Javi... So I actually think Keiji's deseves a third place over Javi but not by a lot (like decimal point like the ladies haha)

27 minutes ago, Yatagarasu said:

 

It is and it isn't. We could say that yes, it's fair towards Kolyada because he is being marked per rules, but it's not fair to him because the lack of application of the rules towards others is disadvantaging him when we look at the bigger picture.

 

It's like when Mark goes on about the rule but when his favorite Shoma does a little wiggle on ice that is most definitely not steps into a solo quad, then I don't really hear him. The problem is that the current wishy-washy application of the rules is being used to prop up some, while the others are being pushed down with the oh hey it's the rules excuse.

 

So they either call it for everyone, or they don't call it at all. Selective application is actually just plain politics and propping up of the chosen ones. Ideally they should of course apply the rule to everyone, but I'd prefer the rule completely ignored than the alternative sometimes yes, sometimes no because that is plain fudging. 

Wiggle. That's what I am gonna call that no-step quad that gets full +3GOE from now on: the wiggle solo quad. 

Honestly, this just illustrates that the main problem is not the scoring system but how it is applied. All this blah blah about casual viewers not being able to understand the rules..... FFS, even people who follow the sport more than casually don't understand many of these creative interpretations of the rules or the way they get selectively applied. Maybe we could fix that first, it would help a hell of a lot to understand the scoring better.

If I understand - or at least I can accept - a part of subjectivity in scoring PCS, I don't get at all this policy in attributing the GOE (well, I get that it not depends always in following the rules....).

 

For this part of the score there are bullets and almost clear rules. The rule introducted this year of the step before the solo jump in the SP is very easy to understand and to apply (I think that a judge in international competition would recognize a clear step before a jump).

 

And these are not the first competitons of the season: so everyone must be already acquainted with that. So, @Yatagarasu and others are 100% right in noting that we have to criticize and stress when we see clear and sure cases of misjudging.

1 minute ago, yuzupon said:

Wiggle. That's what I am gonna call that no-step quad that gets full +3GOE from now on: the wiggle solo quad.