General Skating Chat

[robin]

6 minutes ago, yuzupon said:

That's a good point, but then it also applies to the -Lo-3F combo. 

 

My question is more like, we know that Zu is more naturally inclined to take off from an outside edge when doing toe jumps. And so, doing a quad flip will not work since that natural inclination would be more pronounced in the quad iteration and make him lip instead. But what about putting 3F as the last jump in the said 3-jump combo? Would that be more or as difficult or easier? Why?

 

Well since Yuzu kind of optimized the steps into his 3F in a way that keeps his edge inside at take-off I can imagine it wouldn’t hold true with an euler entry? Just a guess 

 

And I’ve actually been thinking about his euler lately and it’s optimized for a sal. The euler and sal are like one fluid motion and there is no pause between them. 

[cinemacoconut]

On 06/04/2018 at 1:19 AM, robin said:

But Javi is not completely retiring. He says he will do B comps and Euros 

 

 

Maybe if IJS rules change and lower quad base value older skaters like Javi may have a place in competitive skating in the future. I think if we wnt skaters like yuzu and javi to skate longer before retirement we may need to balance the PCS scoring with TES

[Xen]

8 hours ago, cinemacoconut said:

 

 

Maybe if IJS rules change and lower quad base value older skaters like Javi may have a place in competitive skating in the future. I think if we wnt skaters like yuzu and javi to skate longer before retirement we may need to balance the PCS scoring with TES

Not really-they only shifted the weight of GOEs in the TES factoring. In some ways this helps Javi and older skaters with stable quads, but overall the quad advantage still exists. It only really comes into play if a skater falls on a quad/has an error on a quad. That's when a clean, perfect triple could overtake a quad. If they tie GOE scores to the base BV of the jump, then it actually gets worse for guys with less quads, since their GOE is even affected.

 

Of course, we need to see what the final guidelines are, but no, right now it's still quads/quads/quads.

[xeyra]

A skating judge walks you through the scoring system

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2016/03/28/skating-judge-walks-you-through-scoring-system/S28bQijxqjREN3w9XYWwVM/story.html

 

US judge explains how judges score Figure Skating. Not that it actually comes true in most judging but whatever.

 

Catch the easter egg. 

[yuzuangel]

7 hours ago, Xen said:

Not really-they only shifted the weight of GOEs in the TES factoring. In some ways this helps Javi and older skaters with stable quads, but overall the quad advantage still exists. It only really comes into play if a skater falls on a quad/has an error on a quad. That's when a clean, perfect triple could overtake a quad. If they tie GOE scores to the base BV of the jump, then it actually gets worse for guys with less quads, since their GOE is even affected.

 

Of course, we need to see what the final guidelines are, but no, right now it's still quads/quads/quads.

Javi gets pretty good GOEs on his quads though, so that might help. But in reality, all quads seem to get +1 or +2 GOEs just for existing anyway, so the advantage may not be substantial.

[Aotoshiro]

Plus, if the existing rules were applied, half of the quads done would get < and <<s along with minus GOE, so it would even out even without the rule change tbh...(heck, Alice lately mentioned how judges can and should apply a minus GOE for the UR jumps even if they don't get called-I guess that fills the bad landing/takeoff -GOE bullet?) so, just working on judges impartiality could help.

Also, I wonder how it is about other feds, but mine requires judge that wasn't previously at least Junior level skater to go through seminar/5hours training at selected coach's place, but apparently that's only a one-time thing?? So it's possible judges just don't remember how hard it is what those guys do on the ice and why they should be fair to them (not that it should need a reason in the first place...sigh)

On 5.04.2018 at 12:32 AM, robin said:

 

Seeing how reluctant Brian has been with Yuzu doing the 4A I doubt he‘ll let Gogolev work on it. Brian is aware of the dangers that would come with quad axels (as he’s expressed before) and I doubt he‘ll let a still growing boy under his wings go that far. 

_{And I doubt Yuzuru would get deterred by somebody making to 4A first, since it would be a first FOR HIM}

[OonsieHui]

1 hour ago, xeyra said:

A skating judge walks you through the scoring system

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2016/03/28/skating-judge-walks-you-through-scoring-system/S28bQijxqjREN3w9XYWwVM/story.html

 

US judge explains how judges score Figure Skating. Not that it actually comes true in most judging but whatever.

 

Catch the easter egg. 

 

oh the irony of a US judge explaining anything about scoring.... 

[robin]

19 hours ago, kaeryth said:

/whisper/ if you have enough people maybe you can also try your hand at re-scoring + having a tech panel

 

14 minutes ago, robin said:

 

You know I would love a project like that but it might be a tad bit too much to do it along with the streaming parties, especially since the rules in the 11-14 quad were so different we could probably only score recent competitions anyway. How about making a separate project in Knickknacks for that so we're not only bound by men's events? I actually remember there were discussions to do a planet judging/technical panel before so we could revive that

 

I personally couldn't actively join bc I am far from knowledgable enough but I would love to learn from the sides.

 

I'm bringing this here. Would anyone be interested in mock judging?

[xeyra]

3 minutes ago, robin said:

 

 

I'm bringing this here. Would anyone be interested in mock judging?

 

There was a call on twitter for a similar re-scoring project very recently. 

[Hydroblade]

6 minutes ago, xeyra said:

 

There was a call on twitter for a similar re-scoring project very recently. 

it never took off tho...

[robin]

3 minutes ago, xeyra said:

 

There was a call on twitter for a similar re-scoring project very recently. 

 

Oh cool that would work too

 

Well, if there's any interest to do another one here we could still do it, even if superfluous. I am not very active on twitter, personally

[Xen]

9 hours ago, robin said:

 

Oh cool that would work too

 

Well, if there's any interest to do another one here we could still do it, even if superfluous. I am not very active on twitter, personally

So how many are there?

[Danibellerika]

Looking at all of this Yuzu media when they show old 2014 Olys SP clips of his 3A and 4toe, I decided to go back to look at the protocols: 

http://www.isuresults.com/results/owg2014/owg14_Men_SP_Scores.pdf 

IMO both the 3A and 4T should have been +3 GOE. Yet another stingy world record for our guy. 

[Xen]

3 minutes ago, Danibellerika said:

Looking at all of this Yuzu media when they show old 2014 Olys SP clips of his 3A and 4toe, I decided to go back to look at the protocols: 

http://www.isuresults.com/results/owg2014/owg14_Men_SP_Scores.pdf 

IMO both the 3A and 4T should have been +3 GOE. Yet another stingy world record for our guy. 

Well, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, and stuff...it also seems that Pchiddy's PCS scores have kind of stalled since Sochi.

 

More amazed by the amount of 8's and even 7's I see in the protocols for the top 6- really shows how far PCS inflation has gone these days, since 8's rarely pop up in anyone's protocols for PCS. I'm pretty curious when these mock judging panels actually start-because if we score by absolute value based on guidelines, I wonder how many many guys will really get SP TSS  over 100.

The initial protocols when the change happens this season should be interesting. Will there be GOE inflation or a post-olympics deflation?

[hoodie axel]

BTW, how would the rescoring work? I have tried to score the SPs of a few favourite skaters in the way BoP scores programs and have felt satisfied with the results. I've also tried to score SPs in the way the judges do and have felt my IQ slowly dropping.