General Skating Chat

[robin]

53 minutes ago, Xen said:

So how many are there?

 

Well this is an open call so if you would want to be part of it we‘re at one 

 

6 minutes ago, hoodie axel said:

BTW, how would the rescoring work? I have tried to score the SPs of a few favourite skaters in the way BoP scores programs and have felt satisfied with the results. I've also tried to score SPs in the way the judges do and have felt my IQ slowly dropping.

 

Maybe we would have a TP for edge and under calls but we would probably just use the spin and StSq levels already set by the official TP (unless there is someone confident in doing that job) and have at least 6 (maybe even 4 is enough?) judges who would judge all the elements and PCS and enter them in a google spreadsheet? It should be possible to prepare one everyone could work on simultaneously that calculates the results. 

[hoodie axel]

3 minutes ago, robin said:

Maybe we would have a TP for edge and under calls but we would probably just use the spin and StSq levels already set by the official TP (unless there is someone confident in doing that job) and have at least 6 (maybe even 4 is enough?) judges who would judge all the elements and PCS and enter them in a google spreadsheet? It should be possible to prepare one everyone could work on simultaneously that calculates the results. 

I think this is a good idea, but going back to Sochi (and again I don't know what you want to rescore here), I think TP for Spin and StSq levels is a good idea, because I think Yuna's StSq levels were called incorrectly. At least in the LP.

 

But what standard of judging? IN and PE are at least a little subjective. Going to Patrick Chan's SP in CoC 2016, would we have someone give him anything more than a 6 for IN and PE? OTOH, a skater having a meltdown doesn't necessarily have to be performing too badly, like Boyang in his SA 2016 SP, who would be getting a 7 for PE there from me. Would the judges necessarily evaluate everything properly without standards for PCS? For instance, I don't think Seimei's CO in 2018 was a 10 (close to 9), but is there a standard there?

[Xen]

7 minutes ago, robin said:

 

Well this is an open call so if you would want to be part of it we‘re at one 

 

 

Maybe we would have a TP for edge and under calls but we would probably just use the spin and StSq levels already set by the official TP (unless there is someone confident in doing that job) and have at least 6 (maybe even 4 is enough?) judges who would judge all the elements and PCS and enter them in a google spreadsheet? It should be possible to prepare one everyone could work on simultaneously that calculates the results. 

Well I can possibly join both, time permitting.

Why do I have an odd feeling I'll end up on TP for all the mock panels? o_O I can't do spin levels, but if I try hard, maaaaybe I can do stsq levels. Ah, what am I getting myself into?!

[robin]

7 minutes ago, hoodie axel said:

I think this is a good idea, but going back to Sochi (and again I don't know what you want to rescore here), I think TP for Spin and StSq levels is a good idea, because I think Yuna's StSq levels were called incorrectly. At least in the LP.

 

But what standard of judging? IN and PE are at least a little subjective. Going to Patrick Chan's SP in CoC 2016, would we have someone give him anything more than a 6 for IN and PE? OTOH, a skater having a meltdown doesn't necessarily have to be performing too badly, like Boyang in his SA 2016 SP, who would be getting a 7 for PE there from me. Would the judges necessarily evaluate everything properly without standards for PCS? For instance, I don't think Seimei's CO in 2018 was a 10 (close to 9), but is there a standard there?

 

You‘re asking the really difficult questions here and there’s a reason why I am not volunteering myself as a judge 

Probably this should be discussed among the mock judges once we have set a panel? But we definitely don’t have to adapt common practices by judges, like scoring down PCS just because the program isn’t clean. 

 

7 minutes ago, Xen said:

Well I can possibly join both, time permitting.

Why do I have an odd feeling I'll end up on TP for all the mock panels? o_O I can't do spin levels, but if I try hard, maaaaybe I can do stsq levels. Ah, what am I getting myself into?!

 

There we go, we found our brave TP  

 

actually I‘d love to join, too, but i don’t feel comfortable judging anything but jumps GOE lol. this would end up being a super stressful experience for me so no thanks 

[hoodie axel]

2 minutes ago, robin said:

But we definitely don’t have to adapt common practices by judges, like scoring down PCS just because the program isn’t clean. 

There shouldn't be a rule for scoring down, but I just want the objectivity to be there. I don't think Patrick Chan's strength was his IN in a few SPs, but I can't say that other judges wouldn't mark highly when judging a clean performance.

[robin]

2 minutes ago, hoodie axel said:

There shouldn't be a rule for scoring down, but I just want the objectivity to be there. I don't think Patrick Chan's strength was his IN in a few SPs, but I can't say that other judges wouldn't mark highly when judging a clean performance.

 

Since there isn’t a commission breathing into your necks in case you score wildly different from other judges, I don’t think you have to worry about how others score... if that’s what you mean? Just go by your own opinion. The discussion around why everyone scored the way they did would be more interesting if there’s differences, anyway 

[hoodie axel]

5 minutes ago, robin said:

Since there isn’t a commission breathing into your necks in case you score wildly different from other judges, I don’t think you have to worry about how others score... if that’s what you mean? Just go by your own opinion. The discussion around why everyone scored the way they did would be more interesting if there’s differences, anyway 

Hahaha yeah, true, true. It will be very interesting to see how everyone scores. Maybe I'll involve myself, too, just to give unpopular opinions. The discussion would indeed be very nice to see.

[Xen]

5 minutes ago, robin said:

There we go, we found our brave TP  

 

actually I‘d love to join, too, but i don’t feel comfortable judging anything but jumps GOE lol. this would end up being a super stressful experience for me so no thanks 

I'm a nice TP, definitely not The Shin Amano. =) But I will demand lots of ice cream, salsa and chips after each judging rounds. And maybe a plush toy (a pooh!) to squeeze while I dish out the ruling. =P

Actually compared to you guys, I'd be the most generous judge EVAR on PCS. "You have an 8, and you here have a 9, and oh, 8.25's for everyone else!" Seriously, I feel a bit bad if I go under 7.5 for most senior men's or ladies, since that's borderline not passing your final exams. 7.75 is sort of my baseline,  under that is when existential crisis start.

 

For judging- I'd consider skipping Sochi all together. Men's might be the only discipline, with pairs perhaps, that we have some degree of agreement on. Ladies is also a hotbed of drama and controversy scoring.

[hoodie axel]

3 minutes ago, Xen said:

Actually compared to you guys, I'd be the most generous judge EVAR on PCS. "You have an 8, and you here have a 9, and oh, 8.25's for everyone else!" Seriously, I feel a bit bad if I go under 7.5 for most senior men's or ladies, since that's borderline not passing your final exams. 7.75 is sort of my baseline,  under that is when existential crisis start.

 

You'd give Nathan's Olympic outings anything more than a 5 for PE? You're indeed generous.

[Xen]

Just now, hoodie axel said:

You'd give Nathan's Olympic outings anything more than a 5 for PE? You're indeed generous.

7.5....time to cue artistic existential crisis since it went under my bar of 7.75. I don't think he's that bad yet, but needs re-evaluations. Hey, I'm just a judge trying to keep my job, okay? And far far away from investigation. >_>

[robin]

2 minutes ago, Xen said:

I'm a nice TP, definitely not The Shin Amano. =) But I will demand lots of ice cream, salsa and chips after each judging rounds. And maybe a plush toy (a pooh!) to squeeze while I dish out the ruling. =P

Actually compared to you guys, I'd be the most generous judge EVAR on PCS. "You have an 8, and you here have a 9, and oh, 8.25's for everyone else!" Seriously, I feel a bit bad if I go under 7.5 for most senior men's or ladies, since that's borderline not passing your final exams. 7.75 is sort of my baseline,  under that is when existential crisis start.

 

For judging- I'd consider skipping Sochi all together. Men's might be the only discipline, with pairs perhaps, that we have some degree of agreement on. Ladies is also a hotbed of drama and controversy scoring.

 

LOL we‘ll make sure to send you a care package 

 

What‘s most important is being consistent so as long as you score everyone high that should be fine hahah

but make sure to leave enough room upwards so that he difference between the really good ones (not naming anyone) and some others can be reflected 

 

I was actually thinking of not going into the previous quad at all because the rules were so different 

[yuzuangel]

This sounds like fun and I'd love to participate, but I'm not sure I can guarantee to not be extremely biased...

[hoodie axel]

1 minute ago, robin said:

I was actually thinking of not going into the previous quad at all because the rules were so different 

This would be great. I might do exactly one panel. I'd love to really score Medvedva and Zagitova's Olympic outings, if you know what I mean. 

[Xen]

Just now, robin said:

 

LOL we‘ll make sure to send you a care package 

 

What‘s most important is being consistent so as long as you score everyone high that should be fine hahah

but make sure to leave enough room upwards so that he difference between the really good ones (not naming anyone) and some others can be reflected 

 

I was actually thinking of not going into the previous quad at all because the rules were so different 

I think the major changes were step sequence levels, in which case it shouldn't be too hard for me. If slow-mo is allowed, I can probably ID steps (will need help with Choctaws though ugh). What would amuse me is if results were published-you need some thick skin for some of the onslaught that may come from some corners of the FS community. It would also be amusing though, if the results got thumbed up by say, Max and Angelo.

[yuzupon]

I can maybe contribute to figure out the spreadsheet formula if no one else is doing it.

I can't judge, cz I'd be scoring everyone below 7 in PCS, and GOEs from me would range from -3 to 1. I tend to underscore everything and everyone. Yes, even Zu, despite being outraged when he is being underscored by judges  (Cz I always feel like his score should probably not go that high by itself. But relatively to how the others are scored, goddammit! Zu is underscored).

I can't do TP either cz while jumps, and maaaaaybe spins are somewhat recognisable for me, this is how I differentiate Stsq and Chsq of skaters that still some semblance of steps in their Chsq: "Is there Loop? If yes: Stsq".