General Skating Chat

[xeyra]

2 minutes ago, Xen said:

I'm joking okay. Besides, Yuzu already rippons his combo jump, his aesthetics probably won't permit him to permiate his layout with rippons.

 

This 4Lz obsession with men this season....

 

13.6 BV is a good reason to obsess about. 

[Sammie]

1 hour ago, xeyra said:

 

Is this video recent? I remember seeing a rippon 4Lz from Vincent back after he won Jr. Worlds, so I don't know if it's the same video or if it's a new one. What I remember thinking back then was that though I love rippons and doing one with a 4Lz is super impressive, I found the rippon really awkward in a quad jump, probably because it has more rotations? 

I'm not sure if it's recent, it popped up in my twitter feed. You are right though about the ribbon, I looked at it again and it really does look awkward. 

[SparkleSalad]

It does give a different impression in the zoomed-out video. Hmmmm... 

[Neenah]

I prefer tanos and rippons when done with doubles and triples (for some skaters), I think they look better with the slower rotation speed. So, I don't like it much from skaters that have small jumps with fast rotations.

[Sombreuil]

The fast rotation thing is a point - it would be very easy to end up looking like one of those music box ballerinas twiddling madly away around the rink which would be neither elegant nor 'cool'.

[SSS]

So the above 4lz is considered as small?

[Aotoshiro]

1 hour ago, SSS said:

So the above 4lz is considered as small?

Not a specialist there, but his jumps go up rather than forward (thank you, Data man!),  so he relies on the speed of the rotation to get all the rotations in before landing (don't trust my eyes, but something with his takeoff bothers me as well...), contrary to for example Yuzu whose big jumps rely on getting into air, and go for almost four metres before landing back on the ice.

[Neenah]

2 hours ago, SSS said:

So the above 4lz is considered as small?

Are you referring to my comment? I wasn't talking about anyone in particular, it was just a general observation and is totally my opinion and preference.

[FCSSp4]

Right now the man closest to breaking Yuzuru's SP WR is Javier who got 109+ at Worlds. This isn't because he has the highest BV but because he is capable of closing the gap with PCs and GOE. I have no doubt that Patrick is capable to scoring 110+ in the SP if he skates his new layout clean. He scored 102+ with just one quad and has been the only other man aside from Yuzuru who has broken the 100 barrier with such a layout. In the SP the smallest points matter, so even if they land all the jumps but miss a couple of levels it's still anybody's game.

 

Yuzuru's SP layout at ACI wasn't his final one. The 4S is a placeholder for the 4lo meaning this isn't the maximum of what he's capable of. He's not Evgenia who has pretty much maxed out her SP's scoring potential (although ladies field has pretty much plateaued unless they introduce 3A+quads)

 

Nathan, Shoma and Boyang have to bridge the gap between them and Yuzuru through BV and start getting GOEs and PCs as high as he does if they want to break the WR. This means they have to be as close to perfection as possible. It's certainly not impossible just very very difficult to do if they skate in the same competition as a clean Yuzuru Hanyu.

[OonsieHui]

Don't forget that a clean Yuzuru Hanyu this season will almost certainly be raising the WR's. So even higher to beat.

 

On the slim chance that any of them beat it before he raises it, its only going to last until Yuzu skates clean. Then BOOM its back to Yuzu 

 

[SSS]

2 hours ago, Aotoshiro said:

Not a specialist there, but his jumps go up rather than forward (thank you, Data man!),  so he relies on the speed of the rotation to get all the rotations in before landing (don't trust my eyes, but something with his takeoff bothers me as well...), contrary to for example Yuzu whose big jumps rely on getting into air, and go for almost four metres before landing back on the ice.

 

1 hour ago, Neenah said:

Are you referring to my comment? I wasn't talking about anyone in particular, it was just a general observation and is totally my opinion and preference.

It does look small comparing to Boyang's huge Lz...I can't wait to see Yuzu' huge Lutz...I don't know why I am not super excited now for Lutz..I just want a healthy body Zuzu...

[Xen]

15 hours ago, Neenah said:

I prefer tanos and rippons when done with doubles and triples (for some skaters), I think they look better with the slower rotation speed. So, I don't like it much from skaters that have small jumps with fast rotations.

It's not just a rotation speed issue I think. I was looking through Yuzu's rippons and noticed he tends to round his arms a bit- it's not fully straight (for comparison, look at Janny's rippons). This makes his rippon arms look more wide, and round.  I do recall my coach as a child, who never wanted me to have my arms fully extended straight-as she considered it a bit ungraceful, as it lacks a feeling of "smoothness" going from the legs up to the top of your hands.

 

8 hours ago, Aotoshiro said:

Not a specialist there, but his jumps go up rather than forward (thank you, Data man!),  so he relies on the speed of the rotation to get all the rotations in before landing (don't trust my eyes, but something with his takeoff bothers me as well...), contrary to for example Yuzu whose big jumps rely on getting into air, and go for almost four metres before landing back on the ice.

Yes, ideally jumps should be a very nice parabola, aka Yuzu, Javi, Boyang (mostly), Patrick, even Nathan (it's still a decently good parabola even if not the largest in the world), with a fairly good distance along with good height. A lot of height but little distance (Vincent, though I think he's okay, there are a couple junior men), or lot of distance but little height (Shoma) are both problematic and indicate issues with jump technique (or not a natural jumper). And both can contribute to issues with exit landings, flow and axis issues.

 

@Fay@Yatagarasu: Regarding the jumps-I'm thinking of that old russian article Fay translated, and according to that, a lot of height but no distance on a jump is a lack of control of the edge. In the case of little height and lots of distance I'm tempted to say it's a timing issue (aka not timing the take off correctly with leg strength issues being possible). Would I be correct in this hypothesis?

[SSS]

1 hour ago, Xen said:

or lot of distance but little height (Shoma)

？？？definitely little distance

[Xen]

6 minutes ago, SSS said:

？？？definitely little distance

Hmm, I should probably say that his distance gained is relatively more than his height-aka a flatter curve.

[SSS]

1 hour ago, Xen said:

Hmm, I should probably say that his distance gained is relatively more than his height-aka a flatter curve.

I don't know...this should be flatter

compared to this one