General Yuzuru Chat

[Sombreuil]

2 hours ago, Fay said:

The thing is they have to want to go in that direction. And it’s in that aspect that I have serious doubts. 

Me too - won’t be during Yuzuru’s career or even YKs - but eventually they will have to face up to it.  I think it will be like tennis and football- FIFA were dead set against technology but when tennis showed that it could work even that load of entitled sleazebags had to take it seriously.  Gymnastics is beginning to use tech that could be adapted to skating, especially re floor routines.  If it works in one it will eventually be adopted by the other, especially if the IOC were to get behind it.

[Umebachi]

4 hours ago, senemgencer said:

I am very impatiently waiting for the translation of his work. I will then include some articles from Martina Frammartino where she gives numerical evidence and lots of stats about underscoring. I will then make lots of copies and send them to every ISU board member and judge. ISU HQ is only 2 hours away from where I live

 

I would like to suggest that when you send the journal article, you emphasize that this is a FEASIBILITY STUDY and please could you not link it to Martina's articles?  While she is trying to be helpful, her articles are quite inflammatory and is attracting many haters, and it would raise defensive reaction and negative emotions in anyone receiving any translation of Yuzu's research work.  This would be highly counter-productive and I believe this would undermine what Yuzu is trying to do - which is to move the discussion toward the future well-being of figure skating and not relive the past amertume.  

 

I have noted that the "feasibility study" aspect of the research goal is not sufficiently highlighted in the ongoing internet discussions.  By using this rubric, it is clear to me that he is not focusing on highlighting the current problems with scoring, but on offering useful and feasible solutions to addressing the very difficult and challenging task of judging the quality of jumps in figure skating.  Feasibility studies are conducted to help funders/governments/institutions make a decision on whether to invest in a certain instrument or adopt a policy.  Clearly, he is inviting the skating world to consider investing in this technology, and demonstrating that this is not such an insurmoutable task, but quite feasible one using readily available and not so costly technology.   

 

Spoiler

In my professional career, I have conducted a number of large scale feasibility studies - for example, feasibility study on developing an effective skills assessment for future health workforce for OECD.  The study aim was not just to provide a conceptual framework for measuring health workforce skills, but also to present the practical aspects of evaluating skills - a potentially very complex and expensive undertaking - in terms of actual costs and technical requirements.   We proposed various lower cost assessment approaches as well as "state of the art" high-cost high-tech approach, and discussed the tradeoff.  The critical point was to present multiple practical options that could be considered for implementation in high and low income countries.  The main objective of the study was to give the governments a basis for deciding whether or not to invest public resources in developing and implementing these standardized skills assessment tools.       

 

[Whoopiewoop]

34 minutes ago, Umebachi said:

 

I would like to suggest that when you send the journal article, you emphasize that this is a FEASIBILITY STUDY and please could you not link it to Martina's articles?  While she is trying to be helpful, her articles are quite inflammatory and is attracting many haters, and it would raise defensive reaction and negative emotions in anyone receiving any translation of Yuzu's research work.  This would be highly counter-productive and I believe this would undermine what Yuzu is trying to do - which is to move the discussion toward the future well-being of figure skating and not relive the past amertume.  

 

I have noted that the "feasibility study" aspect of the research goal is not sufficiently highlighted in the ongoing internet discussions.  By using this rubric, it is clear to me that he is not focusing on highlighting the current problems with scoring, but on offering useful and feasible solutions to addressing the very difficult and challenging task of judging the quality of jumps in figure skating.  Feasibility studies are conducted to help funders/governments/institutions make a decision on whether to invest in a certain instrument or adopt a policy.  Clearly, he is inviting the skating world to consider investing in this technology, and demonstrating that this is not such an insurmoutable task, but quite feasible one using readily available and not so costly technology.   

 

  Reveal hidden contents

In my professional career, I have conducted a number of large scale feasibility studies - for example, feasibility study on developing an effective skills assessment for future health workforce for OECD.  The study aim was not just to provide a conceptual framework for measuring health workforce skills, but also to present the practical aspects of evaluating skills - a potentially very complex and expensive undertaking - in terms of actual costs and technical requirements.   We proposed various lower cost assessment approaches as well as "state of the art" high-cost high-tech approach, and discussed the tradeoff.  The critical point was to present multiple practical options that could be considered for implementation in high and low income countries.  The main objective of the study was to give the governments a basis for deciding whether or not to invest public resources in developing and implementing these standardized skills assessment tools.       

 

 

^^ Agreed. While Martina's work is highly appreciated in some aspects, I don't think it will be taken kindly if it's combined with a thesis that makes suggestions on how to improve scoring in figure skating through AI.

 

As much as most of us would like to expose their ways, we can't present it as: 'you are corrupt, why don't you do this instead?'

 

They have to be sweet-talked into it. Present it as an option to ease their burden as judges, make it sound like it is for their benefit (mostly). We live in an age of technology where other sports are already advancing into this field and FS shouldn't fall behind either.

[Henni147]

I just saw that Sportschau LMEY is still going up and about to hit 1.3M views 

 

 

I'd also like to share this little moment from today. Mom and I were baking bread and listening to the radio, when they played Whitney's cover of 'Greatest love of all'. She asked me to translate the English lyrics for her and with every line I got a bit more sentimental, because it reminded me of Yuzu's view on many things:

 

I believe the children are our future, teach them well and let them lead the way.
Show them all the beauty they possess inside, give them a sense of pride to make it easier.
Let the children's laughter remind us how we used to be.

 

Everybody searching for a hero, people need someone to look up to.

I never found anyone who fulfill my needs. A lonely place to be and so I learned to depend on me.

 

I decided long ago never to walk in anyone's shadows. If I fail, if I succeed, at least I'll live as I believe.
No matter what they take from me, they can't take away my dignity.

Because the greatest love of all is happening to me. I found the greatest love of all inside of me.

The greatest love of all is easy to achieve: learning to love yourself, it is the greatest love of all.

 

 

Especially the bold part hit hard, given the current situation 

However, I hope that in Kohei he has eventually found a person he can truly look up to 

[senemgencer]

A big thank you for everyone who has contributed to my idea. My approach is to go the constructive way, just like Yuzuru's: "There is a problem here, it is possibly caused by human error and here is a feasibility study that suggests some good ideas and solutions on the matter."

Martina has created some very useful stats which can be used to support my approach. I have no intention to accuse ISU, because it will bore no fruits. 

2 weeks ago I had a meeting with a PR agent here about how one could lobby against ISU and he gave me some very valuable advice. Attacking is NOT one of them.  

 

I am planing to chat with a retired skater who has participated to European Championships (in top ten) and to some who is at the board of "Art on Ice" Show. I think once I collect these data and different approaches,  I can be able to construct a well structured report. 

"This will change nothing" is what comes to mind and all my efforts may perhaps mean nothing, but even if there is a slight chance to make judges realise that our patience is lacking and if they don't change, FS will change for worse, I want to take this chance. 

 

Please keep all your ideas and criticism coming, I appreciate them all 

 

Thank you 

[rockstaryuzu]

1 hour ago, Whoopiewoop said:

 

^^ Agreed. While Martina's work is highly appreciated in some aspects, I don't think it will be taken kindly if it's combined with a thesis that makes suggestions on how to improve scoring in figure skating through AI.

 

As much as most of us would like to expose their ways, we can't present it as: 'you are corrupt, why don't you do this instead?'

 

They have to be sweet-talked into it. Present it as an option to ease their burden as judges, make it sound like it is for their benefit (mostly). We live in an age of technology where other sports are already advancing into this field and FS shouldn't fall behind either.

I agree with this. 

 

I'm going to add that it's far more likely for a technology like this to be adopted at the grassroots levels first. For example,  if there's a skating club or regional group of skating clubs that are having a hard time recruiting parent volunteers to get their certification to judge competitions, I could see place like that wanting to try out this tech instead. Especially if they have someone who's a tech junkie on their volunteer committees

[Umebachi]

45 minutes ago, Henni147 said:

I just saw that Sportschau LMEY is still going up and about to hit 1.3M views 

 

 

I'd also like to share this little moment from today. Mom and I were baking bread and listening to the radio, when they played Whitney's cover of 'Greatest love of all'. She asked me to translate the English lyrics for her and with every line I got a bit more sentimental, because it reminded me of Yuzu's view on many things:

 

I believe the children are our future, teach them well and let them lead the way.
Show them all the beauty they possess inside, give them a sense of pride to make it easier.
Let the children's laughter remind us how we used to be.

 

Everybody searching for a hero, people need someone to look up to.

I never found anyone who fulfill my needs. A lonely place to be and so I learned to depend on me.

 

I decided long ago never to walk in anyone's shadows. If I fail, if I succeed, at least I'll live as I believe.
No matter what they take from me, they can't take away my dignity.

Because the greatest love of all is happening to me. I found the greatest love of all inside of me.

The greatest love of all is easy to achieve: learning to love yourself, it is the greatest love of all.

 

 

Especially the bold part hit hard, given the current situation 

However, I hope that in Kohei he has eventually found a person he can truly look up to 

 

That used to be one of my favorite songs - and I had almost forgotten about it!  Thank you so much for bringing it forward!!  I totally agree with you- it does fit Yuzu very well.  It would be lovely if he could skate to this song in some future gala/ice show.    

[barbara]

5 hours ago, senemgencer said:

A big thank you for everyone who has contributed to my idea. My approach is to go the constructive way, just like Yuzuru's: "There is a problem here, it is possibly caused by human error and here is a feasibility study that suggests some good ideas and solutions on the matter."

Martina has created some very useful stats which can be used to support my approach. I have no intention to accuse ISU, because it will bore no fruits. 

2 weeks ago I had a meeting with a PR agent here about how one could lobby against ISU and he gave me some very valuable advice. Attacking is NOT one of them.  

 

I am planing to chat with a retired skater who has participated to European Championships (in top ten) and to some who is at the board of "Art on Ice" Show. I think once I collect these data and different approaches,  I can be able to construct a well structured report. 

"This will change nothing" is what comes to mind and all my efforts may perhaps mean nothing, but even if there is a slight chance to make judges realise that our patience is lacking and if they don't change, FS will change for worse, I want to take this chance. 

 

Please keep all your ideas and criticism coming, I appreciate them all 

 

Thank you 

Thank you for taking this on.  And it isn't just the fact that FS will change for the worse, because it's already doing that, but it's thatFS is going to lose fans.  Lots of them.  If they truly realized that their continued bad scoring and allowing some Feds to rule all is going to cut deeply into their bottom line, maybe then they'd do something.  They seem very motivated by profit and money - yet do not seem to grasp just what a negative impact losing Yuzu is going to have on that bottom line.  How many people pay those big ticket prices because they can see Yuzu skate?  I know I am unlikely to spend a lot on competitions if I can't see him.  Yes, there are and will be some skaters I will want to see, but if scoring isn't fixed, I may be too annoyed to support them.

[CiONTUw4A]

 

 

 

[senemgencer]

I saw this. I also contacted some people at the department of computer sciences at ETH, Zürich. ETH Zurich is amongst top 10 technical universities in the world. I want to meet with some people at the department of Sports at ETH so that my report/study will reflect more scientific backing. ETH guys confirmed me that given ISU has full access to all data (the scoring mechanism, all perfect and imperfect jumps with recordings from the past God knows how many years and many more digital input), it will take any technical university as short as 3 weeks to put together an almost perfect scoring AI based system. The most difficult part of creating AI, they say, is collecting data which is useful and meaningful. Mind you that ISU already has some digital training schemes in place  for judges.

 

So IF they want to change, it is just a matter of months to make it. The key words here are:"want to change". I understand that they lack the vision to understand future generations and how they can access them. They probably think that having a TickTock account will suffice

 

 

[ralucutzagy]

Happy 4th anniversary, Planet and satellites!!! I can't believe 4 years already flied away! May we all stay healthy, happy and cheer for Yuzu for years to come!!! 

     

[Fay]

Yeah, we are now 4 years old! 

[kiches]

Happy 4 year anniversary to Planet Hanyu! Can't believe the forum is already 4 years old, we're a whole Olympic-cycle old!

[IceWings]

 Happy 4th Anniversary, Planet Hanyu!!!

 

Thank you admins, mods, and all the lovely satellites for making the Planet such a fun and special place where we can support and cheer for Yuzu together! 

[IULIANA]

So, the forum is no longer a toddler! Happy anniversary! We are still alive and kicking hard!