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Planet Hanyu Staff

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Faithyu 4A

Faithyu

Posted
Posted
18 hours ago, mambook said:

Same tbh - it's not in the interests of large Feds or ISU to implement objective judging system.

 

Let us not give up hope, miracles can always happen.....
But if there is a chance for the Yuzuru-Hanyu-Judging-System, it would only be after he has retired. And if I understand it correctly, it would only judge the technical components objectivly, so they would still have room for their manipulations.

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Kizuna SEIMEI

Kizuna

Posted
Posted
17 hours ago, Fay said:

Roman posted this just now and I shed some tears... 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CH8VjRFp06U/

 

This post has been tagged by yuzuangel as [NEWS].

So it's been a year since I first and last saw him live, huh. :cri:Never forget that yolo 3A-1Eu-3S right in front of my side of the rink :heart:

 

14 hours ago, anniered said:

So glad I was able to be there in person. Little did we know.

:sadPooh:

 

I feel ya, man... :cry:

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SitTwizzle Boobskirt

SitTwizzle

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Faithyu said:

 

Let us not give up hope, miracles can always happen.....
But if there is a chance for the Yuzuru-Hanyu-Judging-System, it would only be after he has retired. And if I understand it correctly, it would only judge the technical components objectivly, so they would still have room for their manipulations.

This judge's intervention was maybe just a swallow,not Spring yet, but I would interpret it as "the thing being already in the air" and when one thing is in the air, it can hardly be stopped. And maybe, ISU starting a narrative of having already started some experiment — which would be disgusting in some way because it is not true, but highly encouraging because if ISU do indeed spread this narrative (which is far from being certain, maybe the blunder comes from the Lady herself), it means they will soon do something.

Plus, there's the IOC, who want Olympic sports to be scored as accurately as possible and it is already the case with artistic gymnastics. They must have already pressured ISU to get a similar system or figure skating could be barred from Olympic Games. It would be "too beautiful to be true" if it were at least partly implemented for next Olympics yet it could be done, technically.

And, Yuzuru Hanyu's Bachelor's Degree thesis seems to provide assistance to GOEs and calls on jumps, but it would be even easier to implement such a system for spins; and for steps sequence, some measurements could also be rather easy to implement : for instance, number and direction of steps, accelerations and decelerations, time on one foot, time with the centre of gravity not above skates (and how far from the vertical above them), upper body movements (though this may lead to meaningless agitation moments for some skaters), depth of edges... For jumps and spins, entries could be measured too on several parameters, and they are one bullet; and many elements of "effortlessness" can be measured too.

In the choreo sequence too maybe? Though I think there is more latitude but a little something can certainly be done, not to score the same a skater with a splendid, masterfully executed choreo sequence and another one with a very few indifferent steps.

This for the elements, and if it would suppress ghost calls and forgotten calls, and avoid a mediocre element by one skater to get 2-5s and a similarly mediocre one by another skater to get -2-0s, there would still be latitude to give a 1 or a 2 for instance, which does make a difference at the end, though not forty points.

As to PCS, there is also much room for measurement. Of course in skating skills : ice covering, accelerations and decelerations, edges and edge-changing speed, flow, body movements deviating from the bare preparation of elements or rink crossing... and transitions... but even in interpretation (well, maybe just for tempo), performance (body movement dynamism)...

One should be surprised to see how much of a skater's real superiority in components can be measured, and compared with another skater's training-like ones.

It would probably not make a big difference between an Alexandra Trusova (whose components I find really good and who has beautiful arms) and an Anna Shcherbakova, though the latter has a more artistic interpretation, this would be let to the judges' appreciation, whatever we think of their competence.

But it would force judges to mark Nathan Chen's components under a good Junior's if his team persists in making him skate elements too difficult for his lower athletic shape to allow him deserving any good component score, because his flaws there would appear clearly, with digits on a screen. Also, the sort of "serious error" capping components may be determined, probably later.

So, there would remain some latitude for judges' appreciation — or politicking... but they would have more time to give to these appreciations (instead of, feeling they hadn't had time enough to observe these, focusing on other details, listening to such or such judge announcing a score for such GOE or such component) and this latitude would no more extent to measurable things.

 

Speaking of Yuzuru Hanyu and Nathan Chen, but not of judges : of Nathan Chen's stans which I had found irrational for long; I think I may have understood something explaining their attitude. It took me long because I "come from" ballet where effortlessness is equally valued, particularly in the French Ballet School where it is explicitly written in the original statutes of the oldest ballet school in the world in 1713 : « l'école française fondée sur la primauté de l'harmonie, la coordination des mouvements, la justesse des placements et le dédain de la prouesse » (the French school funded on the primacy of harmony, coordination of movements, accuracy of positions and disdain for prowess). I suppose figure skating lovers feel the same, Yuzuru Hanyu's succeeding in making the trickiest movements look so easy moves me to tears. And so it is written in the rules, effortlessness is a bullet with jumps for instance.

But it may not be the case for people not familiarised with this idea. And this may seriously affect their impression comparing Nathan Chen and Yuzuru Hanyu. Nathan Chen's movements, and particularly jumps, look way more laboured, and these people may get from this the impression he is doing more difficult things, and being more athletic, than Yuzuru Hanyu who does things so much more difficult and who is so much more athletic, but they don't see it because he has such a wonderful flow and smiles and is so lithe etc. Maybe some should explain them?

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barbara World Record

barbara

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, SitTwizzle said:

This judge's intervention was maybe just a swallow,not Spring yet, but I would interpret it as "the thing being already in the air" and when one thing is in the air, it can hardly be stopped. And maybe, ISU starting a narrative of having already started some experiment — which would be disgusting in some way because it is not true, but highly encouraging because if ISU do indeed spread this narrative (which is far from being certain, maybe the blunder comes from the Lady herself), it means they will soon do something.

Plus, there's the IOC, who want Olympic sports to be scored as accurately as possible and it is already the case with artistic gymnastics. They must have already pressured ISU to get a similar system or figure skating could be barred from Olympic Games. It would be "too beautiful to be true" if it were at least partly implemented for next Olympics yet it could be done, technically.

And, Yuzuru Hanyu's Bachelor's Degree thesis seems to provide assistance to GOEs and calls on jumps, but it would be even easier to implement such a system for spins; and for steps sequence, some measurements could also be rather easy to implement : for instance, number and direction of steps, accelerations and decelerations, time on one foot, time with the centre of gravity not above skates (and how far from the vertical above them), upper body movements (though this may lead to meaningless agitation moments for some skaters), depth of edges... For jumps and spins, entries could be measured too on several parameters, and they are one bullet; and many elements of "effortlessness" can be measured too.

In the choreo sequence too maybe? Though I think there is more latitude but a little something can certainly be done, not to score the same a skater with a splendid, masterfully executed choreo sequence and another one with a very few indifferent steps.

This for the elements, and if it would suppress ghost calls and forgotten calls, and avoid a mediocre element by one skater to get 2-5s and a similarly mediocre one by another skater to get -2-0s, there would still be latitude to give a 1 or a 2 for instance, which does make a difference at the end, though not forty points.

As to PCS, there is also much room for measurement. Of course in skating skills : ice covering, accelerations and decelerations, edges and edge-changing speed, flow, body movements deviating from the bare preparation of elements or rink crossing... and transitions... but even in interpretation (well, maybe just for tempo), performance (body movement dynamism)...

One should be surprised to see how much of a skater's real superiority in components can be measured, and compared with another skater's training-like ones.

It would probably not make a big difference between an Alexandra Trusova (whose components I find really good and who has beautiful arms) and an Anna Shcherbakova, though the latter has a more artistic interpretation, this would be let to the judges' appreciation, whatever we think of their competence.

But it would force judges to mark Nathan Chen's components under a good Junior's if his team persists in making him skate elements too difficult for his lower athletic shape to allow him deserving any good component score, because his flaws there would appear clearly, with digits on a screen. Also, the sort of "serious error" capping components may be determined, probably later.

So, there would remain some latitude for judges' appreciation — or politicking... but they would have more time to give to these appreciations (instead of, feeling they hadn't had time enough to observe these, focusing on other details, listening to such or such judge announcing a score for such GOE or such component) and this latitude would no more extent to measurable things.

 

Speaking of Yuzuru Hanyu and Nathan Chen, but not of judges : of Nathan Chen's stans which I had found irrational for long; I think I may have understood something explaining their attitude. It took me long because I "come from" ballet where effortlessness is equally valued, particularly in the French Ballet School where it is explicitly written in the original statutes of the oldest ballet school in the world in 1713 : « l'école française fondée sur la primauté de l'harmonie, la coordination des mouvements, la justesse des placements et le dédain de la prouesse » (the French school funded on the primacy of harmony, coordination of movements, accuracy of positions and disdain for prowess). I suppose figure skating lovers feel the same, Yuzuru Hanyu's succeeding in making the trickiest movements look so easy moves me to tears. And so it is written in the rules, effortlessness is a bullet with jumps for instance.

But it may not be the case for people not familiarised with this idea. And this may seriously affect their impression comparing Nathan Chen and Yuzuru Hanyu. Nathan Chen's movements, and particularly jumps, look way more laboured, and these people may get from this the impression he is doing more difficult things, and being more athletic, than Yuzuru Hanyu who does things so much more difficult and who is so much more athletic, but they don't see it because he has such a wonderful flow and smiles and is so lithe etc. Maybe some should explain them?

One of the most magnificent thing about Yuzu in competition is that he does make it look effortless.  HIs transitions and his flow in and out of truly difficult components are rarely quantified in his GOE's.  Which is really sad.  Nathan may look like he's working harder but that isn't actually a good thing.

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