General Yuzuru Chat

[robin]

21 minutes ago, micaelis said:

I was fully aware that recovering something already mastered is not the same as entering unknown territory.  My point was that Yuzu in his 'imaging' maintained his mental mastery of his quads during the enforced period off the ice and was thus able to recover two of them for PC in an amazingly short time.  What I meant was that the same abilities that went into his quick recovery of two of his quads and making them suitable for competition encompasses also the ability to envisage things as yet unattained.  Also, we do not know how effective the methods Yuzu is devising utilizing things he's learning at university to mathematically describe the elements of a jump might enable him to more quickly enter unknown territory and master it.  I think all of us here recognize that Yuzu is different from other skaters when it comes to expanding his skills in that he seems quite willing to adapt entirely new strategies when trying to master some aspect of his skating, as witnessed by his decision to seek out Brian to train him.  It is dangerous to think that Yuzu in his efforts to improve his skating and expand his repertoire works in the same way that other skaters work and thus I think it is dangerous to presume that the amount of time that other skaters require to master a new element applies to Yuzu also.  He doesn't run with the common herd.  That's why he's Yuzu.

 

imo it's more dangerous to assume Yuzu can master a quad axel and a quint within 2-3 seasons and that a quint is "just another half rotation" away from a quad axel

[xeyra]

Yuzuru has mentioned that while he has a really good image of 4T and 4S, reason why he can recover them so quickly, newer jumps are harder to visualize, which makes them harder for him. He's spoken about this related to his 4Lz and, to a lesser extent, 4Lo. So a 4A isn't going to be easy either. 

[micaelis]

21 minutes ago, Yatagarasu said:

I'd like to think I'm not conservative in my estimates, after all I kept insisting the 4Lz was coming last season but this time, it's a different situation. Like I said, I do see him YOLO-ing the thing in the 2nd half of 2018/19 but serious, consistent inclusion really seems more realistic for 2019/20.

Actually that's the time frame I was more or less thinking.  My point, and perhaps I didn't make it clear enough, was that I didn't think it would take the four years that the person I was commenting on stated.  That seemed to me rather too long.  I realize that Yuzu is not a magician who can magically manufacture new skills out of thin air but I really do feel that his position in skating is largely due to the fact that he can accomplish things more rapidly than most skaters.  That's why he's in the position he is in.  I also realize that because of the seriousness of the injury he's likely to take a more cautious approach to what he does than he used to.  I think he was using the 2014 collision and his relatively rapid recovery from it (an NHK disaster followed by a GPF triumph) in his own estimations of when he could resume business as usual.  That timetable was obviously very overly optimistic.  I have a feeling that this whole experience has been as traumatizing as the earthquake and has probably made him quite aware that he's not invulnerable. 

 

As to expanding his repertoire, he has stated on more than one occasion that a 4A is his goal currently, although I think that putting together a pair of programs for next season is right now his actual priority.  I'm sure he began contemplating that issue even before PC.  Since PC he has, of course, brought to completion the ice show project and dealt with some public relations necessities (the parade and the emperor's garden party, not to mention innumerable interviews).  Now his focus is on getting back to Toronto and finishing up his rehabilitation.  At least in Toronto he'll be relatively free from media demands and able to concentrate on skating alone. 

 

 

[Yoa]

Quote

Upon receiving subsequent Medals of Honor of the same color, the 
recipient was not given additional medals; he was given an extra bar 
to attach to the medal he already owned. In this case, the bar was 
presented in this pressed cardboard box. The inscription on the lid 
reads 'Merit Medal Decorative Bar.'

I guess Yuzuru will get a second bar like this, instead of the new medal. Photos and info about medals and bars are here, here and here

edit: Ok... pictures don't want to be embedded so if you want to see how those bars look like, you have to visit those links above 

 

[WinForPooh]

I'm weirdly more optimistic about the 4A than the return of the 4Lz. I'm sure he'll bring the 4Lz back at some point, but I'm not looking forward to it. It gave his 3Lz a weird lean and odd timing on top of destabilizing his 4Lo a bit. But whatever he's been doing with the 4A has changed his 3A and it hasn't affected the stability of it, so I'm more optimistic. Not in the 'he's gonna land it at his first GP' kind of way, in the 'it probably won't affect his existing jumps badly as he really works on it' kind of way. 

 

But no clue how far along he actually is, he's probably landed it or he wouldn't have talked about it, but not anywhere near enough for it to be 4T/4S kind of muscle memory by a long shot. Getting it back is going to be hard, and getting it stable will be harder.

[ruruzest]

 

 

it was all in my calculations 

[singermelodie1]

14 minutes ago, ruruzest said:

I just realized that yuzuru has a small head

[OonsieHui]

1 hour ago, cinemacoconut said:

But then I heard other opinons just now in other sites.

 

They say if Yuzu told the media he wants to land 4A, then he has been practicing for many years and is very very close to landing it in competitions. They say yuzu never speaks out unless he is confident about something. Which means he doesn't really need 2 seasons to land 4A because it has already come to a finished state in secret. 

 

Just posting what they said. What do you guys think of this theory?

 

Even if it were true that he has been seriously training Nessie for many years in secret (which I doubt. I think it's more likely at the longest since summer 2016), it's the simple fact that he is currently post career ending injury and his ankle is simply not up to any Nessie training for many many months to come.

 

2019/20 is the most realistic (at the earliest!!) imho for non-YOLOing inclusion into programmes. 

[micaelis]

1 hour ago, robin said:

 

imo it's more dangerous to assume Yuzu can master a quad axel and a quint within 2-3 seasons and that a quint is "just another half rotation" away from a quad axel

Actually I was only thinking of the 4A.  I don't  think Yuzu will be seriously looking at quints until the ISU assigns some base values (has it? the last I knew they hadn't), and I'm fairly sure they are in no hurry to do it, not until they've dealt with the ill effects of quad-mania.  In fact I would not be surprised if the ISU bans quints, deciding they are too dangerous.  With the mounting evidence that the excess of jumping is taking a physical toll on the skaters, just as the mounting evidence of frequent brain concussions is taking a physical toll on former American football players,  I would not be surprised if the ISU will decide to take some proactive action there.

 

As for the quint being just a half-rotation over the 4A I know that is rather simplifying the situation since the reality is that a quint is another FULL rotation of its quad version.  Actually I think the quint challenge is likely to be one for the next generation of skaters (if the ISU permits them), those who are currently competing on the junior circuit.  Also, referring to my observation that Yuzu started years ago working on the 4A, I did not mean he was doing it in a systematic way.  I think up until recently he was simply playing around, doing some experimentation, trying to get a feel for the actual challenges the jump would require.  More important at the time was his determination to add additional types of quads to his tool-chest.  With Yuzu's declaration that he's going after the 4A I think we will now be seeing a figure-skating version of the US USSR race to the moon of  the 1960s.  In that race I think Yuzu will have the advantage, based on his mastery of the 3A, realizing of course that the two quads will turn out to be very different creatures.  It's just that Yuzu likely remembers the issues he addressed when he was working on controlling his 3A and he will remember the strategies he used in addressing them.  The issues on the 4A will be different but the strategies by which he answered them will be fundamentally the same.  It's like dealing with an algebraic equation.  The components of several equations might be different but one uses the same principles to deal with them. 

 

 

[ruruzest]

29 minutes ago, singermelodie1 said:

I just realized that yuzuru has a small head

Are you talking about his Q-tip ( it s pronounced just like “cute tip “btw ) head ??? 

 

 

[Mastyaeva]

Oh, jump talks.

 

Of course, Yuzu knows what is the best for him, but as a fan, I really don't want him to leave aside 4 lz. I saw an ideal 4 lz in training in Moscow and it got me. Such a predatory and sharp jump (with a delayed rotation, of course). Diamond drill. I miss it a little bit. But 4 loop by Yuzu is a pure poetry on the ice and in the air. No one can jump it like he. And Nessie

Can't choose, I want them all.

 

[icecreamy]

1 hour ago, cinemacoconut said:

But then I heard other opinons just now in other sites.

 

They say if Yuzu told the media he wants to land 4A, then he has been practicing for many years and is very very close to landing it in competitions. They say yuzu never speaks out unless he is confident about something. Which means he doesn't really need 2 seasons to land 4A because it has already come to a finished state in secret. 

 

Just posting what they said. What do you guys think of this theory?

 

Even if he had been practicing 4A for quite some time and is really close to landing in competitions, I don't think it's at a matured/ready-to-ship state as of now. Especially after the injury sustained on landing foot. Yuzu and his team does conceal/hint/re-phrase things strategically when it comes to competitions and winning, however I feel that he is quite open and honest when expressing his goals. Even at very young age he talked about winning OG in front of reporters (and many just ignored him at the time), to him it's a way for formalizing his goal so that he would start pursuing it with full speed. IMO the mentioning of 4A or even 5A is more on the materializing things-to-work on side.

 

I also feel that Yuzu himself is going through some mental work after olympic winning. As Orser put it one needs some time to digest OG and figure out the next step of plan. I personally feel that his tone of continuing becomes stronger and more determined as his foot heals and also as more praises and nods received from many sources including his hero and fans. Anyway that's just my feeling. As someone who has never seen him compete live I do wish him a speedy and steady recovery, and also competes not just a little longer but much longer, as long as he's contended; however as a fanyu his personal health and happiness weighs the most in my heart. 

[Forcefield]

I'm randomly feeling pessimistic today.

 

I know people say Nessie is Nessie and judges/ISU will be harsh on ratifying the first one, but personally I'm doubtful about it. They ratified Shoma's 4f and continues to despite Nathan bringing it cleanly also.

 

And turns out you can actually "cheat" an axel jump as well. If they actually do go harsh on Yuzu for the ratification though, they might be more lenient on others behind Yuzu to "even the playing field." I mean, Yuzu broke the 300 mark and then the floodgates opened.

[Dori6886]

5 hours ago, SparkleSalad said:

SEIMEI bike.

 

 

I have not ride a bike for years, but I want this one! It's beautiful   

I'm more worried about him getting all of his jumps back, and how well his ankle will heal for now. 

[OonsieHui]

11 minutes ago, Forcefield said:

If they actually do go harsh on Yuzu for the ratification though, they might be more lenient on others behind Yuzu to "even the playing field." I mean, Yuzu broke the 300 mark and then the floodgates opened.

 

I honestly really dislike the whole concept of oh we have to change things to "level the playing field". All that does is penalize those that do exceptionally well and reverse penalize (by giving favours so they don't actually improve) everyone else. It's just ridiculous. Everyone should just be judged based in their merit and hey guess what, if that means some people are far ahead of the crowd, just what's the problem with that? What's wrong with there being a huge gap if said gap is reflective of ability? Why the overwhelming urge to act like it's kindergarten again and everyone has to be equal and everyone has to be a winner? (I'm exaggerating for sarcasm but you get what I mean)

 

(The discussion on what is merit in fs aka quads vs everything else is a tiresome, well worn argument at this point)