17 minutes ago, SitTwizzle said:

I understand Nikolay Tsiskaridze (GOAT in ballet, IMHO) being juree in TV-broadcasted children contests (one of which about skating) a decade or two ago (and until now) gave Russian public interest a boost, particularly to skating.

And Yuzuru Hanyu already enjoys worldwide popularity, not just in his own country.

Thank you for the information about spins scores, I have always found Yuzuru Hanyu's ridiculously low for such wonders and so difficult, do you know why Roman Sadovsky gets better scores? I am not a technical expert but I know only three skaters (the other two being Ladies, Alina Zagitova and Alena Kostornaya) who can "make speak" their spins, and nobody but Yuzuru Hanyu can make such astonishing arm movements during his spins, etc.

Oh, you must watch Roman. His spins are literally perfect. 

1 hour ago, rockstaryuzu said:

Actually, by scores, it's Roman Sadovsky. Someone posted a link with the data after NHK Cup. Roman tops everybody with his scores on spins.

 

Roman is a good spinner - but I think that Yuzu is greatly underscored on his spins (and his step sequences) routinely.

3 hours ago, FlyingCamel said:

Hmm not sure if people will agree but I personally think Yulia Lipnitskaya would be the best spinner!

I agree with this 100%!!! 

3 hours ago, rockstaryuzu said:

Actually, by scores, it's Roman Sadovsky. Someone posted a link with the data after NHK Cup. Roman tops everybody with his scores on spins.

 

Then Yuzu must be second best, but his short program spins rival IMO. For the FS, he spins slower because he needs his energy for so many quads.

3 hours ago, yuzuangel said:

Then Yuzu must be second best, but his short program spins rival IMO. For the FS, he spins slower because he needs his energy for so many quads.

 

His spins are often timed for the music too. He places them carefully to allow for what he needs them to be both physically (as in, for saving energy and breath) and choreographically. He really is the very best at what he does. 

 

12 hours ago, Paskud said:

I think you're underestimating PR work that is done for Nathan in Japan.😅 He is for sure out of top 10, but only if we include retired skaters, like V/M, Plush, Mao, Yuna and so on.

 

I honestly couldn't care less who will win awards. After all world title is much more important.

Nathan's team sure has done alot of PR in Japan, but like most foreign skaters, his popularity is in FS community, not general public. I would say he's on par with Evgenia, Alina, Satoko. Shoma and Rika can attract more attention. 

A tiny  evil part of me want him to win MVP, just for the lol and this is a clown award after all. 

 

11 hours ago, SitTwizzle said:

So many interesting, thoughtful comments!

 

Just two details.

 

Katt, I do think if ever Yuzuru Hanyu would go to Team Tutberidze for any reason, they would let him do whatever he wants. Rather (to compare with well-known Vienna's New Year Concert editions) on the extreme side of Georges Prêtre so elated for being given the opportunity of directing the Vienna Philarmonic Orchestra that he let the musicians go as they wanted — with much better result after all, than, to the other extreme, (I renounced to quote his name)'s insufferable self complacency for not-so-bright conducting of the same orchestra, seeming to believe being Austrian gave him talent? More likely in the right middle (yet the best of all, Carlos Kleiber, was so directive, and so listening in fact, but deciding to the least details), and always listening ears wide open, and watching eyes wide open, and setting him as the example he is to their pupils (they are not old enough to be students, after all). One shouldn't believe because their pupil's skating is not as perfect as some would like it to be (and they have nothing to do with under-calling of mistakes, and have problems as "newcomers and not that much network-players" with their own federation), they are blind to quality of skate — or artistry.

Of course I speak for now, and I am not sure they would give as much freedom (but how much was really given then?) to a 17-year-old Yuzuru Hanyu, as he seems to have enjoyed at TCC.

 

KatjaTerra, Yuzuru Hanyu is not the best spinner around? Oh please, tell me who is better than him in that respect, that I dive in such wonderful spins!

I think I said before that Yuzuru + Eteri team = disaster combo. They couldn't be more different. Eteri's method is they control everything, technically and artistically, like you should do this move, give this look at this part. That's why their skating feel very staged and lack of connection. Pretty sure they wouldn't give Yururu that much freedom, whether he's 17 or 25. Yuzuru once said he didn't like all Nanami's choice for him, but he still goes with it because he trust her. He truly enjoy his old programs at Ciontu, and add a new feeling to those piece. Yuzuru has his own vision of skating, and at some points I think TCC even has a hard time to deal with it.  Luckily they're very patient and always put skater's opinion first. I often joke with my friend that if Yuzuru come to Sambo 70, he and Eteri would never go through 1/2 hour in peace, and he never get the music cut  with Danill. They would kick him out after 3 days

 

Yuzuru's spins are always better in SP, and very underscored. Its a crime that he didn't get perfect GOE for the sit and  final combo spin in Otonal and Chopin. His camel position is one of the best (there's alot ugly one nowadays)

1 hour ago, sallycinnamon said:

 

best boy and his turtle plane;;;;;;

Yuzu’s sit spins are among the best too! Sometimes he gets so low he’s almost butt spinning, can’t imagine how much quad strength that needs 😱

I also think Yuzu’s step sequences are the best, for some skaters it just looks like a part of their programme they have to get through, but Yuzu’s step sequences are always one of the highlights of his programmes - see the way the audience screamed before the Chopin step sequence in 4CC 2020 haha

Somehow he manages to sublime a series of steps and turns on the ice into art - his H&L step sequence is one of the most beautiful things I’ve ever seen 😭❤️
Sorry for the rant haha XD

OT but I finally got my Music with Wings booklet, so happyyyyy 😭😭😭 

 

ETA: to add to the spin discussion, I agree Yuzu's spins are often overlooked, and underscored in comparison to some other top skaters who not only get levels gifted but also get crazy goe. Especially sp spins where he can put more stamina in. I wouldn't say there is no one on Yuzu's level, since there are other skaters with crazily fast spins, very centered, but IMO Yuzuru's big strength is that his spins are both technically high quality and fitting the mood of the program, blended in the choreo, no matter if the program is for comp or for ex. That's why even watching him in UA without music one can tell which program the spin belongs to, even when he hits similar positions (often true for jumps too). Having top notch quality on every single skating element -- many great spinners don't have the same tech arsenal for example, and the stamina and focus to pull off both difficult jumps and high quality spins shouldn't be underestimated -- is definitely one of his strong points. Once it used to be mirrored in the scores too... at times.

F***

 

 

Yuzuru Award time!!!

Hope and Legacy vs Paganini. Finally a fairly easy choice.

Though I love that seemingly-never-ending fall after the 3A in one competition (forgot which one). He tried so hard to save it. So adorable! Every time I watch it again I would gasp, because I think he would make it, then I remember he didn't 

 

I didn't mention Yuzuru's sit spin because we all know its the best . What make his spins special is the way he add the musicality into them, IMO no one express the music through spin  like him. The sit spin in LGC, Chopin, Otonal are all different. And his stsq. That's why fans want new programs from him because there's alot of thing he can offer but its also a reason that it take him longer to master. 

I have habit of saving gifs of Yuzu's beautiful jumps from different angles. Which is a bless for my eyes. But at the same time, I instantly rmb which comp is that and how much GOE he got for it, which sometimes can make my blood boil .

 

2 hours ago, Katt said:

I didn't mention Yuzuru's sit spin because we all know its the best . What make his spins special is the way he add the musicality into them, IMO no one express the music through spin  like him. The sit spin in LGC, Chopin, Otonal are all different. And his stsq. That's why fans want new programs from him because there's alot of thing he can offer but its also a reason that it take him longer to master. 

Absolutety, he always comes with some unique hand and head movements to match music accents and its character. And his range of hand (and head) movements as well as  its freedom during spinning is second to none. Speed is not the only factor that makes spins good.

 

I thinks this is a main thing that makes Yuzu so special in general - he's probably the only skater who can use absolutely every  athletic element (jumps, steps, spins, transitions) as a part of interpretation, they're not just sequence of elements glued with choreo/transitions in between, they're fundaments of his programs, part of his artistic language, equally set to the whole image. Unfortunately, there's no place in the scoring system that can make a justice to that (or - there's no will or competence by the judges side to use the system to make that justice).  He's surpassed the frames of this sport

 

That's why I'm on the board with the idea for seperate panel to score PCS - to have some judges who actually can watch a program and see it as a whole peace to be able to notice that differences. It's pretty much imposible rn. Imo, even viewers follow mostly techbox in the corner of the screen while watching competitions irt.