When will Yuzu land 4A

[Paskud]

30 minutes ago, micaelis said:

Everybody seems to be missing this, and I know I've got this thing for him, but nobody seems to be looking at Yuzu's training mate, Stephen Gogolev, who according to Brian has all the six non-axel quads in his arsenal.  If that is indeed the case I really do think he's in the 4A sweepstakes even though he's skating on the Junior level.  At least right now, though, he's out of the running until JGPF since he's already skated his two GP qualifiers.

Stephen has full blade take off and borderline flutz. He should now work on his flaws, not looking at extremely dangerous elements.

[enno0287]

5 hours ago, micaelis said:

Everybody seems to be missing this, and I know I've got this thing for him, but nobody seems to be looking at Yuzu's training mate, Stephen Gogolev, who according to Brian has all the six non-axel quads in his arsenal.  If that is indeed the case I really do think he's in the 4A sweepstakes even though he's skating on the Junior level.  At least right now, though, he's out of the running until JGPF since he's already skated his two GP qualifiers.

 

Adding to what everyone has already said, we also wouldn't know how puberty and growth spurt will affect his jumps.

I wouldn't want Stephen to try too hard. Better take safe approach while anticipating body changes.

[OonsieHui]

5 hours ago, micaelis said:

Everybody seems to be missing this, and I know I've got this thing for him, but nobody seems to be looking at Yuzu's training mate, Stephen Gogolev, who according to Brian has all the six non-axel quads in his arsenal.  If that is indeed the case I really do think he's in the 4A sweepstakes even though he's skating on the Junior level.  At least right now, though, he's out of the running until JGPF since he's already skated his two GP qualifiers.

 

Aside from what the others have already said, his axel is also not that great yet. Just because he has quantity, doesn't mean he has the quality, and quality is what counts when you're trying for the monster of quads. 

 

(And yeah... you really do have a thing for him, seeing as how you bring him up constantly.... 😂😅😅)

[Songster01]

7 hours ago, Paskud said:

Ok, I didn't remember correctly, sorry.  But I found right interview: https://bevsmithwrites.com/keegan-messing-what-now/

Interview is from 26 August. 

 

 

Yes, what I got from the interview is that Keegan and his coach wanted to focus more on stabilizing the 4Lz as they ramped up for the GP .  Better risk/reward ratio to do so.  It sounds like K wants to get back to trying it in harness, maybe later this season and then be able to transition to doing it out of harness.  That would be the next big step, though obviously he would have to get used to it in harness again.  Unless he's holding back on his 4A status for strategic reasons, it doesn't sound like it would be landed this season unless the 4Lz cooperates and fairly soon.  At the GTSA Summer Skate (seen in person) he fell on his 4Lz and < and at Nebelhorn he chose to do the 3Lz (or it popped? haven't watched so just looking at the protocols).  So for the GP series  he would want to choose one new quad to concentrate on and he's still working on the 4Lz.  We can check bck after the GPF to see how the 4Lz is going for him.  If it's still a work in progress, then it seems even likelier a 4A attempt would not happen until next season, unless again he is still focused more on stabilizing the 4Lz.  Then again, K loves danger and thrill, and he may surprise us.  If he does "go for it" it won't be out of character.  I just hope all of the 4A chasers keep as safe as possible and not push themselves to do it in competition too early.  Even if K and Yuzuru are in the later stages of their careers, no one wants to see those careers end early because of a 4A-induced injury.

 

As for Stephen, who is 13 btw, I am cheering for his growth and development as a complete skater like his idol.  He has plenty to work on already, and Brian and Lee permitting even harness work on the 4A by a junior man would be a terrible decision.  Why would they risk SG's potential on it?  Even the 4Lz is a big risk, though if he can learn to to it well, if he needs to give it up during extended growth spurts then at least he'd have the feel of it 4Lz in the bank.  And with multiple men doing it already, it's more useful.

[4Nessie]

1 hour ago, Songster01 said:

 

Yes, what I got from the interview is that Keegan and his coach wanted to focus more on stabilizing the 4Lz as they ramped up for the GP .  Better risk/reward ratio to do so.  It sounds like K wants to get back to trying it in harness, maybe later this season and then be able to transition to doing it out of harness.  That would be the next big step, though obviously he would have to get used to it in harness again.  Unless he's holding back on his 4A status for strategic reasons, it doesn't sound like it would be landed this season unless the 4Lz cooperates and fairly soon.  At the GTSA Summer Skate (seen in person) he fell on his 4Lz and < and at Nebelhorn he chose to do the 3Lz (or it popped? haven't watched so just looking at the protocols).  So for the GP series  he would want to choose one new quad to concentrate on and he's still working on the 4Lz.  We can check bck after the GPF to see how the 4Lz is going for him.  If it's still a work in progress, then it seems even likelier a 4A attempt would not happen until next season, unless again he is still focused more on stabilizing the 4Lz.  Then again, K loves danger and thrill, and he may surprise us.  If he does "go for it" it won't be out of character.  I just hope all of the 4A chasers keep as safe as possible and not push themselves to do it in competition too early.  Even if K and Yuzuru are in the later stages of their careers, no one wants to see those careers end early because of a 4A-induced injury.

 

As for Stephen, who is 13 btw, I am cheering for his growth and development as a complete skater like his idol.  He has plenty to work on already, and Brian and Lee permitting even harness work on the 4A by a junior man would be a terrible decision.  Why would they risk SG's potential on it?  Even the 4Lz is a big risk, though if he can learn to to it well, if he needs to give it up during extended growth spurts then at least he'd have the feel of it 4Lz in the bank.  And with multiple men doing it already, it's more useful.

 

And what's more, I don't think ANYONE in the world has motivation as strong as Yuzu right now. His kuyashii is completely unknown force to other people...

So when deciding if they practice the jump or rest, other skaters may just choose to rest more likely.   

[rockstaryuzu]

Well, so far multiple people close to Yuzu have said, on the record, that's he's training 4A. To me, that doesn't mean trying it to see if he can get it. It means he's got to the stage where he's refining and honing it and making it into a muscle memory so that he can safely and smoothly drop one into a program whenever. It sounds a lot further along than either Aliev's (seeming) trial-and-error efforts or Keegan's still-not-off-harness work. 

 

IMO, Nessie is basking patiently in the shallows by the lakeshore, waiting for Yuzu to come and get her. And she might just go looking for him if he keeps her waiting too long.

[Figure_Frenzy]

5 hours ago, rockstaryuzu said:

It means he's got to the stage where he's refining and honing it and making it into a muscle memory so that he can safely and smoothly drop one into a program whenever.

This is also my understanding of him training the 4A this season (also why I sound so optimistic in my earlier posts in this thread ).

 

7 hours ago, Songster01 said:

As for Stephen, who is 13 btw, I am cheering for his growth and development as a complete skater like his idol.  He has plenty to work on already

For junior men, the one I know training 4A is Camden Pulkinen (from a post on his instagram). He is still training it in harness (from the insta post he stumbled at the landing). I assume he still continues training it this season, but with him being at TomZ's camp I admit that I am rather skeptical about him...  

[SSS]

20 hours ago, Yatagarasu said:

 

He has tried it before in competition (has anyone else, come to think of it? I am not sure, I don't think so?) and he was far from it. Even in practices, if we're being lenient, he's managed to underrotate it at best. I am not sure this is a wise choice for him but on the other hand, I have so much admiration for this guy. He has been trying for years. 

just hope underrotated or prerotated or any wrong 4A attempt won't be admitted

[Yatagarasu]

5 hours ago, SSS said:

just hope underrotated or prerotated or any wrong 4A attempt won't be admitted

 

URs will be the true issue I'd say. I have no doubt that any jump by Yuzuru will be scrutinized under a microscope to make sure it is fully valid. Which I don't mind of course, I just hope they're equally picky about attempts of others and the one thing that might force them to do so at least somewhat is that everyone will analyze the jump once it is called valid. So they might have a care. Or not, who knows with ISU tbh. We can only cross everything. 

PR is that thing currently floating somewhere in some other galaxy and totally alien to any and all TPs and judges. 

[Figure_Frenzy]

35 minutes ago, Yatagarasu said:

PR is that thing currently floating somewhere in some other galaxy and totally alien to any and all TPs and judges.

...maybe because PR is (assumed to be) *implied* in UR judgement? (I mean, if you PR, then you definitely don't rotate as much as you are supposed to be, hence you UR your jump, even when you land it on the right mark). This is my assumption as a lay person of course 

 

(But before someone tell me that UR and PR is different — don't worry, I realize that they are different issues, especially when you start examining them separately )

 

Also let's hope that Yuzu and everyone else involved in the Nessie hunt stay in the best shape  

[Sammie]

another skater hoping to win Nessie hand 

[Songster01]

I don't think this was posted here yet; I did skim through earlier pages, but may have missed it:

 

Alexey Mishin: “Dmitriev is closest to the quadruple axel of all the athletes I have seen” https://www.sports.ru/figure-skating/1067323885.html

        (source: post #283 on this page: https://goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?72086-2018-19-Russian-Men-s-figure-skating/page15

 

If the translation is accurate, then clever wording from Mishin, given that it's probably unlikely Mishin has been visiting TCC this summer/early fall (correct me though if I'm wrong, but I've not seen any sign of him visiting).  I assume "I have seen" means either seen anywhere (live or on a video), or in person (live).  So if he hasn't seen Yuzuru, then he isn't part of that group of athletes evaluated by Mishin.

 

Coupled with D saying he wants to get back in shape for 4A (if a recent quote), then he might be able to try again later in the season, unless that combo is really his new main focus and the 4A is a nice but secondary goal.  I don't know D well enough to say how serious the 4A comments are . 

[WinForPooh]

47 minutes ago, Songster01 said:

I don't think this was posted here yet; I did skim through earlier pages, but may have missed it:

 

Alexey Mishin: “Dmitriev is closest to the quadruple axel of all the athletes I have seen” https://www.sports.ru/figure-skating/1067323885.html

        (source: post #283 on this page: https://goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?72086-2018-19-Russian-Men-s-figure-skating/page15

 

If the translation is accurate, then clever wording from Mishin, given that it's probably unlikely Mishin has been visiting TCC this summer/early fall (correct me though if I'm wrong, but I've not seen any sign of him visiting).  I assume "I have seen" means either seen anywhere (live or on a video), or in person (live).  So if he hasn't seen Yuzuru, then he isn't part of that group of athletes evaluated by Mishin.

 

Coupled with D saying he wants to get back in shape for 4A (if a recent quote), then he might be able to try again later in the season, unless that combo is really his new main focus and the 4A is a nice but secondary goal.  I don't know D well enough to say how serious the 4A comments are . 

 

It is smart wording. And Artur has put it in his competitive programme so that must mean that he's somewhere close to it. 

 

But then I'm also pretty certain that if anybody other than Yuzu lands one without any UR at all in practice, it will go straight up on social media. Yuzu seems to be one of the few people in the skating world who would not want a perfectly landed 4A in practice to be put up anywhere for hype of any kind! 

 

We know he can do it now. It's a matter of landing it 'every time' and doing it to his standards before he can put it in his programme. 

[micaelis]

I'll make one prediction - If Yuzu lands a full-blown 4A in a competition (and he's the first to do so) he'll receive a standing ovation even while he's still skating (I just hope he can keep his focus right then).

[Yatagarasu]

19 hours ago, WinForPooh said:

But then I'm also pretty certain that if anybody other than Yuzu lands one without any UR at all in practice, it will go straight up on social media.

 

For sure. After all we have seen URs from Artur in practice. If he was landing a rotated one at least once in a while someone would be lurking with a camera to catch it. Mishin's an old fox but IMO at least he over-hypes sometimes and then it ends in tears. 

 

@Sammie that's a kid who is 13, whose jumps are not that big so I think what that post means is this is how we start on the road to 4A - with Axels with less rotation/pops first. Polina in general seems to be pretty safety inclined. I hope at least.