Proposed changes for next season

[Coquelicot]

http://soyouwanttowatchfs.tumblr.com/post/173454325710/agenda-of-the-57th-isu-congress - Highlighted proposals from the International fan FB group

 

Quote

PROPOSAL 194. NETHERLANDS (pg. 84): Split judging panels so that 5-7 judges will mark only GOE and 5-7 judges will mark only PCS at international ISU events. No less than 3 judges on a panel will judge either PCS or GOE. Whether a judge scores PCS or GOE is decided by draw 45 minutes before each segment of a competition. Reasoning: To improve efficiency and fairness by making judges’ duties more specific.

 

I'm wondering what the split judging panels for PCS and GOE would look like.  Do you think this could be a good thing?  (Newbie figure skating fan here )

 

Quote

PROPOSAL 201. NETHERLANDS (pg. 85): Change PCS factor in men’s singles skating to 1.2 in the short program (previously 1.0) and 2.4 in the free skate (previously 2.0) in order to rebalance PCS and TES.

 

Also, while I think that giving greater attention to PCS is good, I can't help but think about how PCS already isn't scored consistently, and too often it seems that the skaters' PCS/technical scores correlate to each other, even though they should be scored separately.    I feel like this would give judges a lot of room to make subjective scoring decisions.

[katonice]

4 hours ago, Coquelicot said:

http://soyouwanttowatchfs.tumblr.com/post/173454325710/agenda-of-the-57th-isu-congress - Highlighted proposals from the International fan FB group

 

 

I'm wondering what the split judging panels for PCS and GOE would look like.  Do you think this could be a good thing?  (Newbie figure skating fan here )

 

 

Also, while I think that giving greater attention to PCS is good, I can't help but think about how PCS already isn't scored consistently, and too often it seems that the skaters' PCS/technical scores correlate to each other, even though they should be scored separately.    I feel like this would give judges a lot of room to make subjective scoring decisions.

The separate technical and presentation panels are how it's done currently in synchronized swimming as I understand, and probably a number of other judged sports. I think the idea has merit since one of the oft-quoted reasons to 'forgive' the judges' bad scoring is that they just have so much to do in so little time that 'mistakes' and inconsistencies are bound to happen. 

 

One of the things that might hold back voting in this rule though is that it will be more difficult for feds to push their agenda, since they won't have assured control of both segments of the scoring.

That's just what I think anyway -- maybe I'm just thinking too calculatingly and skeptically these days. 

[yuzuangel]

I'd be interested to see data on longevity of ladies skaters who could turn senior their first Olympics right at the age cutoff (Yulia Lipnitskaya, Alina Zagitova, Polina Edmunds, Kimmie Meissner, Tara Lipinski, off the top of my head, basically ladies who would be affected by the rule change) versus the ones who just missed the age cutoff (Yuna Kim, Mao Asada, and others that aren't as famous I'm sure) acting as a control group. Maybe that will give us a starting point regarding whether the age change would be a good idea? @wingman whaddya think? 

 

Not sure how to crawl a list of skaters, though, so maybe we could only look at skaters who have gone to the Olympics at some point.

 

A lot of skaters lose motivation after going to the Olympics (and maybe medaling), though, so not sure how to account for that/or whether or not we even should.

[cinemacoconut]

I am for increasing the judging panel and for also allowing more countries to participate in judging to reduce national bias

[Xen]

Just reading through the first 80 or so pages:

1) Okay with the idea of a PCS and GOE panels being separate. But how funding will work to allow that is a separate issue. My nightmare is if it doesn't get separate panels, *and* we get that falls are deducted in GOEs and PCS by the same panel. That will be rich. I was hoping to see cases where the GOE judge sees a fall but the PCS judge clearly does not. 

2)Variety of quads- not going to like this one. If anything, it drives the men's to have more quad types. Well, I guess I see why we need to raise the minimum age- the guys will need more time to master at least 3-4 quad types to remain competitive in the top 6, since just doing 4T3T and 4T just won't cut it anymore. I guess we need to give guys more time to learn (break themselves) in practice. 

• Frankly, Nate's the least concern here. He benefits either way you cut it because he has probably the most variety of quads in a program. Actually, most of the US men do, Vincent's not a slouch either. So the issue isn't even what the top guys are doing. It's more what about those guys who have less quad variety but still, decent quads. Aka uncle Voronov, Bychenko, heck, even Kolyada (that the fed pushed him to do a 4Lz without it being competition ready still frightens me). They might get into the top 10, but top 6 is a long shot, and they will depend more on the top guys splatting. 

I wish I knew ice dance better, the amount of strike-outs in the ice dance section makes me think I am missing out severely on some juicy tidbits. 

 

Edit: 

Bosnia and Herzegovina (page 83 of PDF):

190: Music system

1. All programs must be skated to music

2. All Competitors shall furnish competition music of excellent quality on CD and a backup thereof or in any other approved format. 

Reason: This requirement is missing our regulations and is fundamental for our sport

(I wonder if there is shade involved....didn't know that such a rule was actually missing, such wasted opportunities)

 

[yuzupon]

I can't.

It's gonna take too much of my energy to point each and every proposal that I think is beyond ridiculous, and the wasted energy isn't going to affect whether the proposal gets approved or not.

I'll wait to rage until the new rules are officially announced.

[hoodie axel]

1 hour ago, Xen said:

(I wonder if there is shade involved....didn't know that such a rule was actually missing, such wasted opportunities)

 

John Cage, please, if it doesn't pass.

 

Also, wow, people are reading that thing? 

[hoodie axel]

10 hours ago, Yatagarasu said:

I think my fave idiocy so far is compulsory steps before solo jumps in SP removed because they are already counted in GOE so it's "controversial" to count steps as a requirement.

I wonder which fed is behind that because of which skaters(' 4Fs). 

[hoodie axel]

1 hour ago, Xen said:

Frankly, Nate's the least concern here. He benefits either way you cut it because he has probably the most variety of quads in a program. Actually, most of the US men do, Vincent's not a slouch either.

Which is why I hope the "quality" thing is real.

[Dori6886]

I think we have some misunderstanding with the bonus Japan proposed:

Quote

In the Free Skating of the single skating additional bonus points will be given to skaters succeeded six different type of clean triple and/or quadruple jumps in the program

I think it means that skaters like Yuzu would get this bonus, not that you need all 6 type of quads to get it. But who really knows, it's ISU afterall  In ideal world, if it would work as I think, I would be a fan of it. But calling underrotations, downgrades and edges is a mess right now (and let's nog even talk about prerotation ), so I think it would only mean more controversions and fan wars. 

 

Also ISU trying to save it's reputation by restricting protests. Dear God, it's so wrong on so many levels I don't even know where to start 

[cinemacoconut]

Wouldn't this new rule benefit quadsters even more? Sure they are raising PCS factor, which is good for yuzu, but it's unfair for older athletes who are more well rounded and more artistic. It only would benefit skaters like Nathan and Boyang for Beijing 2022, which I am not too happy about. If they limit quad variety, yuzu can only have max 4 quads in the free program (4lz, 4lo, 4s, 4t). Yuzu can make up for with GOEs though maybe and PCS

[Lunna]

14 часов назад, Xen сказал:

2)Variety of quads- not going to like this one. If anything, it drives the men's to have more quad types. Well, I guess I see why we need to raise the minimum age- the guys will need more time to master at least 3-4 quad types to remain competitive in the top 6, since just doing 4T3T and 4T just won't cut it anymore. I guess we need to give guys more time to learn (break themselves) in practice. 

• Frankly, Nate's the least concern here. He benefits either way you cut it because he has probably the most variety of quads in a program. Actually, most of the US men do, Vincent's not a slouch either. So the issue isn't even what the top guys are doing. It's more what about those guys who have less quad variety but still, decent quads. Aka uncle Voronov, Bychenko, heck, even Kolyada (that the fed pushed him to do a 4Lz without it being competition ready still frightens me). They might get into the top 10, but top 6 is a long shot, and they will depend more on the top guys splatting. 

I don't like it at all. Yes, there are about 5 guys with different types of quads now, but all the others with "only" 4T/4S will be reduced to maximum one or two quads in FS instead of 2-3. I think quads BV is enough reward for learning more types, if a skater wants to get to the top and feels he can add a new quad he will do it without these rule - cuz for young skaters it's the shortest way to the top for now.

[sweetwater]

Many of these proposals seem to be meant to encourage well-balanced skaters, but some of them don't seem to work that way...

They should allow repeating one type of quad. Although skaters equipped with fewer types of quads can still earn points by maximizing GOEs and PCS, it takes time to improve your overall skating skills and non-jump elements, and the BV of such elements are still not so high. Those who have fewer quads and not-so-stellar non-jump elements would choose to spend more time on acquiring a new type of quad to get a good result.

 

On 2018/3/25 at 12:59 AM, Xen said:

For those curious- check out this link about the  new patterns: https://www.ice-dance.com/site/reference/pattern-dance-descriptions-patterns/rhumba-damor-under-development-by-isu/

Maple Leaf March: adapted from a partial sequence from Poirier and Gilles

Rhumba d’Amor: based on something from Torville and Dean

Tea Time Foxtrot: created by Natalia KALISZEK and Maksim SPODIREV 

 

Now I'm curious as to what those patterns look like, google didn't give me any actual steps patterns images. 

Sorry for being off-current topic and replying to a post after a month, but these might be the source of these pattern dances (I'm certain about the Maple Leaf March but not fully sure about the other two):
Maple Leaf March

Spoiler

 

Rhumba d'Amor

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXW2TpxXrcU

Tea Time Foxtrot

Spoiler

 

 

[Neenah]

52 minutes ago, sweetwater said:

Many of these proposals seem to be meant to encourage well-balanced skaters, but some of them don't seem to work that way...

They should allow repeating one type of quad. Although skaters equipped with fewer types of quads can still earn points by maximizing GOEs and PCS, it takes time to improve your overall skating skills and non-jump elements, and the BV of such elements are still not so high. Those who have fewer quads and not-so-stellar non-jump elements would choose to spend more time on acquiring a new type of quad to get a good result.

 

Will that really happen though? The judges have been giving PC according to TES in all disciplines lately and I don't see that changing just because we have new rules. If the same trend continues, skaters who have an advantage in TES will always gain an advantage in PC. 

As for the GOE, will the judges give +4 or +5 for triples (for men)? or are we going to see all triples capped at +3. We joked before about Yuzuru doing dance moves in the air for his 3F to get perfect 3 GOE but it is actually a real problem. Quads get higher GOE just for being quads while triples don't, no matter how good they are  

 

The ISU can talk about the loss of artistry all they want, no rules will change what is happening. The only solution is to stop the judges from over rewarding difficulty and truly focus on quality of everything not just jumps. I don't like how even the new proposals are very focused on jumps as if everything else is an afterthought 

[WinForPooh]

I'm so glad I only caught up with all of this after five on a Friday.

 

Drinks on me, everybody.

 

Get rid of solo steps because they're controversial?  No, you gibbering nonsensical baboon-arsed zebra-faced numpties, the controversial part is how your judges ignore the rule about negative GOE for lack of required steps before solo jump in the SP depending on who does(n't) do it. That's the controversial part.

 

So if now rules are being proposed according to what your fave (sorta) cannot do, how about this? How about we outlaw all quads for men because I like Jason Brown a lot and apparently he just can't land a quad, and I still think he's good enough a skater to podium? If one requirement that's a good marker of how good a skater you are can be struck down like that because it's inconvenient, make it go all the way! How about let's give a one second leeway before and after a jump is airborne to complete rotations? I like Satton's skates, this would mean she never has to actually rotate! Let's tailor proposals for rule changes to suit the inadequacies of skaters!

 

What could go wrong! WHEEEEEE!!!