General Skating Chat

[Lunna]

1 час назад, SitTwizzle сказал:

Quarantine doesn't need to be suppressed, if a special quarantine is set up, not allowing skaters and teams to ramble everywhere, but assigning them to specific hotels with specific rules and organising their transfers from and to airport, and between rinks and accommodation.

It's possible in theory (there's usually special hotel and transport anyway), but the problems will remain if skater comes home to his training base and have to be in 14 days quarantine, that way how can he take part in second event? The only way might be two GPs one after the other for all and with the same line-up, also moving final later maybe (but that's problematic).

Well, seems like we have one more month for theories.

[EisElle]

6 hours ago, Paskud said:

Huh? something like that on ISU official site?

yeah, that was such a weird wording. Like, didn't they heard directly from Chinese organizers, before making this announcement?

Anyway, the reasoning "but GPF is a olympic test event, hence CoC must take place too"" looks... a bit of a stretch to me.

GP series could go on with less than 6 events anyway, ISU should just alter a bit the rules. Heck, they could even just drop the number to "only" 4 events, but with bigger line up. Of course it could be problematic to have so many more skaters at once. But even then, logistically, organizing fewer GPs (and have comps with 24 skaters instead of 12) wouldn't be that different from ISU championships or, heck, even JGP and their 6h long events...(ok, probably there won't be 6h long events this season, but still)

 

4 hours ago, sallycinnamon said:

 

Yes, the decision so far is no Japanese skaters at JGP and Challenger competitions until Budapest Trophy in mid-October, which is a week before the first GP event, Skate America.

I (&everyone else, probably) have the feeling Japan won't be as willing to send skaters to SA, this time

(of course a miraculous improvement of US covid numbers could still happen)

[Lunna]

Decided to continue here

  

7 часов назад, rockstaryuzu сказал:

Well, if they don't send their skaters out, then how are those skaters going to get points and standing for the bigger international comps? Yes I mean that they could try and do something to compensate for not being able to send their athletes to Challengers. And frankly, the ISU needs to start thinking about ways to accommodate such situations, because Japan won't be the only country making this choice. Far better to send a couple of international judges to Japan than a whole team full of athletes all over the world. 

Hmmmm, don't see ISU to be that creative. And for now JSF didn't say anything about GPs and Challengers are not so much points.

Don't know if smth can be done here. Loosing the first part of the season will hit the most countries with many good skaters like Japan/Russia/USA/Canada, for example Russian/Japanese skaters, those who will not make it to the main team - first part of the season is the only way to get SBs for next season GP series and to show skating to the international judges, for middle-level skaters from other feds it also can be a good chance for more points then let's say at Worlds.

[Sombreuil]

The idea that the ISU, an international sporting body that, for example,  can’t cope with music being submitted on a usb stick being flexible and lateral thinking enough to come up with novel solutions to trying to get up and running in the current crisis is ludicrous.  If it can’t be done the way it’s usually done the ISU will be the last sporting body to contemplate any out of the box solution. The only thing that makes me think there might be skating at all this season is the fact that the Winter Olympics are looming and the IOC might kick them into action.  At the moment it’s all handwringing or head in the sand.  I can’t even use the headless chicken cliche because they aren’t active enough.

 

JSF are at least taking steps to protect their skating community.

[surimi]

17 minutes ago, Sombreuil said:

 

JSF are at least taking steps to protect their skating community.

 

Not quite, and that's what irks me the most. 'Protecting' the GP-ineligible (or GP potential) skaters by having them stay at home while happily sending off the higher ranked ones to GP, doesn't seem like the best way to protect all their skaters. Either they're deliberately risking the health of their GP skaters - or they only keep GP because a) they don't have to spend so much money on them (the organizing countries are the ones who pay for accommodations, right?) , and b) because the biggest Fed favorites are guaranteed them anyway, and will have a chance to get points there.

As a fan of the underdogs, this move of theirs stinks big time for me.

[sweetwater]

JSF is hosting NHK Trophy. I think that's why they haven't announced anything about GP yet. If they cancel assigning skaters to GPs as a protective measure against COVID-19, they have to cancel NHK as well, and that would affect GPF ISU seems to be insisting on holding now.

[Katt]

JSF said they won't send skaters to part of CS series, not the whole one.ISU doesn't have any decision on GP, that's why JSF couldn't speak out about GP. We don't even have GP assignement at this point, how could one know what JSF goona do with GP ? I dislike JSF alot, I know they made alot of dumb decision but this one is not. Let's be honest, the chance for skater to travel without quarantine in the next 1-3 month is pretty low. ISU and all Feds just wait for the last minute to announce thing.

And its not like they can't reverse  their decision. If thing magically improve and we have normal season with JGP, CS series, I'm sure JSF would happily send skaters to those comp like they often do. 

[EisElle]

afaik the Challengers mentioned in JSF statement were all scheduled before the start of senior GP,  so I understand why this first announcement by JSF is only about JGP and Challengers.

I wish ISU had found a different way to handle Challengers -- I do want skaters who are able to go to earn something out of it, but I'm worried that so many Jpn skaters will be affected by the "loss" of those ranking points. Especially if Russian skaters, instead, are able to go (entirely possible, so many options for challengers within Europe, possibly without excessive travel restrictions), even skaters like Satoko and Kaori, who are still rather high in WS, could be affected in terms of starting order in following comps.

For the other skaters it will be even more costly. Maybe ISU could design more Challengers later in the season (thinking about all those comps in Jan/Feb, though most of them are in Europe too) to give Jpn skaters (and others who can't take part in earlier Challengers) a chance to compete internationally

(of course, assuming that by then covid situation would be better).

 

Now I think about it, tbh the only skaters in whole TJ who won't lose much (though still lose the opportunity to test programs with int panel) are Yuzuru and Rika (Rika especially has a larger cushion). Even Shoma would have needed the opportunities of a Challenger (wait, but is he in Japan now or went back to Switzerland? There could still be the chance that skaters whose training base is abroad could get some exception. Which, I reckon, would be unfair to the rest of TJ, and might be the reason why JSF prefers to just use a blanket ban)

 

ISU thought it was perfectly fine to hold Jr synchro WC even when some Countries had pulled out, iirc USA among them (even setting aside the nonsense of hosting such a comp after Montreal had been cancelled and WHO had declared pandemic, this stuck to me as unfair towards the teams that didn't go. It's not like the reason for their WD was some individual accident of the teams or some internal matter of their countries, it was the darn world pandemic!). Hence, I don't expect ISU to suddenly become symphatetic to skaters who are prevented from gaining ranking points by choices that are not in their own hands.

On the other hand, I'm also side-eyeing ISU for not wanting to give prize money to winners.

If you think a comp meets all requirements for Challengers and should give ranking points, there's no reason not ot give those prize money, too

instead they chose the option more convenient to them - Challengers will be held, if they meet requirements they give the points, but ISU keep the (meager)money for themselves (I hope that at least those money will go to support skaters, not in benefits for managers or paying for a happy hour in Phuket)

 

 

About senior GP, I'm guessing that JSF will wait for ISU to decide something before making some unilateral announcement like for JGP and Challengers.

Yes, it's likely that the cons of a blanket ban on whole GP series for all jpn skaters will weigh more on JSF decision (even just for the much bigger economic interests involved in GP and especially NHK). All the more reasons for them to wait and see how other feds are moving...

But in all honestly, atm JSF is among the "good" feds who are dealing with this unexpected situation and aren't just hiding their heads under the sand and praying for a vaccine, a cure or a miracle.

 

Though the bar with ISU is so low that it's pretty easy to look good in comparison

[Sombreuil]

3 hours ago, surimi said:

 

Not quite, and that's what irks me the most. 'Protecting' the GP-ineligible (or GP potential) skaters by having them stay at home while happily sending off the higher ranked ones to GP, doesn't seem like the best way to protect all their skaters. Either they're deliberately risking the health of their GP skaters - or they only keep GP because a) they don't have to spend so much money on them (the organizing countries are the ones who pay for accommodations, right?) , and b) because the biggest Fed favorites are guaranteed them anyway, and will have a chance to get points there.

As a fan of the underdogs, this move of theirs stinks big time for me.

At the moment they are reserving judgement on the GP series.  I am really upset for Utashin and Sadovsky for example but I’d rather they were safe than put at risk.  This virus is still out there, there are countries  not taking any steps to control it, there are those taking inept steps ( I include my own in that) there are places going through a second outbreak.  Health is the most important thing.

[surimi]

22 hours ago, Katt said:

JSF said they won't send skaters to part of CS series, not the whole one.ISU doesn't have any decision on GP, that's why JSF couldn't speak out about GP. We don't even have GP assignement at this point, how could one know what JSF goona do with GP ? 

 

Since Japanese skaters never participate in the later Challengers in my experience, the result is the same as if the ban had been extended for the whole series. I doubt they'd be willing to send some skaters to late challengers just when Sectionals and Nats preparations are underway.

But didn't JSF outright cancel JGP Yokohama? And JSF didn't wait for ISU's decision regarding JGP, just said they won't send their skaters there. They're earlier competitions than senior GP so that's probably why, but apparently JSF don't need ISU statements to act.

Like I said, I don't have a problem with JSF protecting their athletes, but if the elite who have GPs end up going (doesn't look too likely but who knows), then this is so unfair towards the lower ranked skaters, unless an exception is made for later challengers (which I'm sceptical of).

[Katt]

17 hours ago, surimi said:

 

Since Japanese skaters never participate in the later Challengers in my experience, the result is the same as if the ban had been extended for the whole series. I doubt they'd be willing to send some skaters to late challengers just when Sectionals and Nats preparations are underway.

But didn't JSF outright cancel JGP Yokohama? And JSF didn't wait for ISU's decision regarding JGP, just said they won't send their skaters there. They're earlier competitions than senior GP so that's probably why, but apparently JSF don't need ISU statements to act.

Like I said, I don't have a problem with JSF protecting their athletes, but if the elite who have GPs end up going (doesn't look too likely but who knows), then this is so unfair towards the lower ranked skaters, unless an exception is made for later challengers (which I'm sceptical of).

JSF cancelled Yokohama event just like Skate Canada, Slovakia fed did with their JGPs. Again, JGP, CS, GPs are all different, they might follow different protocol to act accordingly as well (sponsors, TV rights). This is not the only JSF announcement for the rest of the season, as the event/GP come closer, for sure they will release more. This could turn out like Coupe du Printemps. No one know how GPs and the whole season would look like, and at the moment, JPN skaters, elite or low rank all have no assignment.   

[Fay]

There’s talk of this already. 

 

[SitTwizzle]

31 minutes ago, Fay said:

There’s talk of this already. 

 

Not a very smart attempt at manipulating minds.

[EisElle]

7 hours ago, Fay said:

There’s talk of this already. 

 

OUCH x100

 

laywoman's question here, but... once things are solved on the health side (trusting science that they will be, or that, at least, we'll all reach a new normal where there is a way to safely hold big events), wouldn't it be possible to "just" shift the whole olympic calendar, so Beijing and Tokyo still get their slot, only postponed further, if needed? This pandemic has screwed all best laid plans anyway, even in thosa nations where preparations for 2024 and 2026 were planned. They, too, must be suffering delays on their schedule (ETA: I saw they would be France and oc Italy. I'll be extremely non-patriotic and confess that I wouldn't be surprised if my own country were late on the schedule even under normal circumstances)

and if Beijing won't happen in 2022 and they'd just cancel it, it would mean winter sports athletes would need to wait till 2026 for a shot...that's 8 full years since PyeongChang. In competitive terms it's a very, very long time

[FlyingCamel]

18 minutes ago, LadyLou said:

OUCH x100

 

laywoman's question here, but... once things are solved on the health side (trusting science that they will be, or that, at least, we'll all reach a new normal where there is a way to safely hold big events), wouldn't it be possible to "just" shift the whole olympic calendar, so Beijing and Tokyo still get their slot, only postponed further, if needed? This pandemic has screwed all best laid plans anyway, even in thos nations where preparations for 2024 and 2026 were planned. They, too, must be suffering delays on their schedule.

and if Beijing won't happen in 2022 and they'd just cancel it, it would mean winter sports athletes would need to wait till 2026 for a shot...that's 8 full years since PyeongChang. In competitive terms it's a very, very long time

I really can’t fathom Beijing being cancelled, it would be devastating for the athletes who worked all their lives to become Olympians. Especially for the ladies figure skaters, things are moving so quickly. If the current batch of girls aiming for Beijing (Sasha T, Anna S, Aliona K, You Young, Rika, Kamila, Alysa etc etc) don’t get to go, it will be exceedingly, exceedingly difficult for them to make it in 2026 because by then there will be much younger girls vying for the Olympics already  I hope it doesn’t get cancelled, my heart aches for them.