General Skating Chat

[Sombreuil]

Not surprised that gymnastics is postponed - it would be impossible to keep the equipment clean.

[Veveco]

7 hours ago, Sombreuil said:

Not surprised that gymnastics is postponed - it would be impossible to keep the equipment clean.

 

With the OG postponed and other major competitions scheduled normally in the summer, it makes sense.

[memae]

I've been thinking over these rule changes and I don't see how it's fair to keep records as they are when the value of elements is changing. Yuzu's records from the +/-3 system are historical records, but how can it be fair for anyone to try to break any current records when the elements in those programs were possibly worth more then than now? 

 

What I really thought about was how close Yuzuru was at Skate Canada to the record Nathan set in Saitama. He was about a point off the overall score. Factor in the 4Lo, now worth an extra .5 in base value, and the 2 4Lz Nathan did across two programs (and each did a 3Lz so they cancel each other on the change there, however much it was), if the base values had been this way from the start then Yuzu possibly might have held the total score record once again for a couple of months. Forget the q nonsense (I don't see the point since they made changes with rules about edge calls and rotations before and didn't follow through on any of it), I'm just looking solely at base value of elements. Even Nathan is going to have to work hard to try to break his own record with the 4Lz value dropping. That's a whole point if he does 2 4lz. Good for Yuzu if he goes back to 4Lo in both programs - but Nathan might be compelled to bring his 4Lo back now, even if he hates it. 

 

As for the Lakernik talk. That man should be banned from this sport. He shouldn't even be allowed to watch skating on television with all the damage he's done.

[SitTwizzle]

1 minute ago, memae said:

I've been thinking over these rule changes and I don't see how it's fair to keep records as they are when the value of elements is changing. Yuzu's records from the +/-3 system are historical records, but how can it be fair for anyone to try to break any current records when the elements in those programs were possibly worth more then than now? 

 

What I really thought about was how close Yuzuru was at Skate Canada to the record Nathan set in Saitama. He was about a point off the overall score. Factor in the 4Lo, now worth an extra .5 in base value, and the 2 4Lz Nathan did across two programs (and each did a 3Lz so they cancel each other on the change there, however much it was), if the base values had been this way from the start then Yuzu possibly might have held the total score record once again for a couple of months. Forget the q nonsense (I don't see the point since they made changes with rules about edge calls and rotations before and didn't follow through on any of it), I'm just looking solely at base value of elements. Even Nathan is going to have to work hard to try to break his own record with the 4Lz value dropping. That's a whole point if he does 2 4lz. Good for Yuzu if he goes back to 4Lo in both programs - but Nathan might be compelled to bring his 4Lo back now, even if he hates it. 

 

As for the Lakernik talk. That man should be banned from this sport. He shouldn't even be allowed to watch skating on television with all the damage he's done.

It is true that their WR are that close.

But these WR are mostly a WR of underscored WR for one, and maybe (I don't know but if the proportion of overscoring remains the same when there is a "judge favourite", then the higher the score, the higher the overscoring) a WR of overscored WR (not of global overscoring, as there was no jump with hands receiving positive GOEs). And none could "pretend" to a q in it, isn't it?

Let's keep them as they are, and go on, they will be caught, maybe next year.

What I wonder is why ISU accepted this q for underrotation without imposing it for prerotation. Isn't it time to address the problem of underrotation? Wasn't it the moment to get it as a bargain, with RusFed?

[memae]

32 minutes ago, SitTwizzle said:

It is true that their WR are that close.

But these WR are mostly a WR of underscored WR for one, and maybe (I don't know but if the proportion of overscoring remains the same when there is a "judge favourite", then the higher the score, the higher the overscoring) a WR of overscored WR (not of global overscoring, as there was no jump with hands receiving positive GOEs). And none could "pretend" to a q in it, isn't it?

Let's keep them as they are, and go on, they will be caught, maybe next year.

What I wonder is why ISU accepted this q for underrotation without imposing it for prerotation. Isn't it time to address the problem of underrotation? Wasn't it the moment to get it as a bargain, with RusFed?

 

I was talking only the base value because that isn't subjective like GOE or PCS. By simply changing the base value, let alone all the other things, they change the capacity to compare scores from before and after the change. You can still compare, but it isn't a fair comparison. They should start the records over again. Nathan Chen's exact skate with the exact GOE and PCS from both Saitama and Torino (both WR scores at the time) are now worth less simply because of the base value of the jumps. With more ways for scoring to be affected because of the q rule, it becomes even more of a false comparison. I don't see how a score in the coming season can compare to a score from last season, even just for lower level international skaters just chasing personal bests. As for underrotation and prerotation, they need to allow the cameras and slow-mo review or there's no point in the rule. If they're going to get that precise in the scoring, they need to ensure that the judges have all the means to be that precise in the judging.

[SitTwizzle]

14 minutes ago, memae said:

 

I was talking only the base value because that isn't subjective like GOE or PCS. By simply changing the base value, let alone all the other things, they change the capacity to compare scores from before and after the change. You can still compare, but it isn't a fair comparison. They should start the records over again. Nathan Chen's exact skate with the exact GOE and PCS from both Saitama and Torino (both WR scores at the time) are now worth less simply because of the base value of the jumps. With more ways for scoring to be affected because of the q rule, it becomes even more of a false comparison. I don't see how a score in the coming season can compare to a score from last season, even just for lower level international skaters just chasing personal bests. As for underrotation and prerotation, they need to allow the cameras and slow-mo review or there's no point in the rule. If they're going to get that precise in the scoring, they need to ensure that the judges have all the means to be that precise in the judging.

I see your point but am not qualified to have quite a definitive opinion... except about cameras, I think nearly everybody agrees with the need of using them. Nearly. The problems being, those who don't being powerful, and those who would have to do the job being of uncertain qualification as to that sort of technical questions.

[SparkleSalad]

RIP figure skating

 

 

 

[yumeaki]

I'm waiting for the day when Yuzu will release a book which details all his thoughts on rules changes and judging standards. 

Just don't let me wait too long, ok? 

[SparkleSalad]

56 minutes ago, SparkleSalad said:

RIP figure skating

 

 

 

 

the full article

https://www.isu.org/figure-skating/news/news-fsk/13176-isu-updates-scale-of-values-and-judging-guidelines

 

Quote

“If you look at the statistics, the quad loop very likely is the most difficult quad, but again this depends mainly on the body of the skater,  so finally we have decided to give all these quad jumps the same value,” Bianchetti noted.

 

[Paskud]

geez...

[sallycinnamon]

Something is going on. First Mishin says it'd be the best to combine Lutz and Flip, then the BV changes and then Bianchetti's words...but his reasoning doesn't make any sense. 

[SparkleSalad]

we know what's going on...

[Veveco]

The comment section is going to be a happy place...

 

 

[vd_turnan]

Honestly, it's like they changed everything according to Mishin's and RusFed desires - the combination of Flip and Lutz and the 'q' respectively. With the latter, they even admitted it was because last year RusFed was upset that for once the judges did their job and called Scherbakova's URs and wanted to avoid that happening again.

[cirelle]

Here's the thing tho, if they're saying the mechanics for lutz and flip are the same, they should also be one jump, not two. Rename the new jump! "Fake Lutz" would never fly but it's what they deserve.

 

Mishin's comments I saw as someone who knows and CAN teach the two different jumps but is tired of seeing skaters not get rewarded for it. And Dudakov's "I like the classic distinction" as someone who is benefiting from the fake lutz craze and not wanting to let that go.