General Skating Chat

[Sammie]

 

[Yoa]

Video from ISU's webinar. They used Yuzuru, Javi, Evgenia and Carolina's jumps as examples for jump bullets. I only watched a little part of the video so I am not sure if there's something interesting in there. But people already are complaining that they used competing skaters as examples...

[hoodie axel]

17 minutes ago, Yoa said:

But people already are complaining that they used competing skaters as examples...

Sure, but it could be worse. They just used the reigning men's OGM, OBM, the reigning ladies' OSM, and former ladies' OBM as examples.

[cirelle]

I’ve only seen about a minute so far, and they actually went with ”not rules, more like guidelines” unironically? 

 

At least Yuzu should stand a good chance of getting over +3 for his 3A then. 

[robin]

16 minutes ago, cirelle said:

I’ve only seen about a minute so far, and they actually went with ”not rules, more like guidelines” unironically? 

 

 

I’ve known that it’s defined that way but no need to rub it in, Susan!! 

 

eta: LOL @ the bicycle example??? not sure if I understood correctly but... So they’re saying a jump can hit all the bullets but may not deserve the full GOE or put differently: the judges can do whatever the f they want? 

[Eclair]

1 hour ago, Yoa said:

Yuzuru's 3a was used as an example of bullet 1 (very good height and very good length 6:12) and bullet 4 (steps before the jump, unexpected or creative entry 7:18) for jumps in ISU's webinar

 

finally watched it and I quote: 

'

Quote

This is a guideline. Yes, this is important. Each bullet doesn't automatically correspond to pluses but corresponds to a erm possibly to increase the level and value of the element'

 

 

Translation: These new +-5GOE bullet points are a guideline. So powerful fed skaters  or whoever you want can still receive high GOE easily and small fed skaters may tick off all bullet points but you still don't have to give them high GOE. 

 

Quote

quote: 'In some cases we can have a little bit more deduction than in others with the same mistake'. 

 

translation: give your own skaters less deduction for the same mistakes than other skaters. 

 

Quote

there are no so much difference in the way you evaluate the elements than in the previous system. It's just the range of marks is different.  (...) So, basically, I want to recommend all judges, don't be afraid, it is absolutely like before (...)

 

translation: this video was totally pointless, just judge the way you judged before adjusted to the +-5GOE and don't be afraid, nothing is going to change. 

 

edit: sorry, I just realized I should've probably posted this in another thread ... sorry to be off topic! congrats to yuzuru to be included in the example videos!

[Neenah]

Looking at the examples they chose for the choreo sequence, it seems getting high GOE would be easy for this element.

 

Not trying to be mean but Alina's ChSq does not "enhance the music"    

[Pamigena]

18 minutes ago, cirelle said:

I’ve only seen about a minute so far, and they actually went with ”not rules, more like guidelines” unironically? 

yeah, "unironically", more like taking the rulebook and literally hitting you in the face with it.

Attention everyone, we are talking about guidelines! Guidelines! Do I need to repeat it for the people in the back? I can spell it out for you: g a i d e l a i n s. Guidelines aren't rules. Those are different. If the judges don't follow the guidelines, you're not allowed to bitch about it, because guidelines aren't made to be followed, they are just tools. Rules and tools sound similar, but they're totally different. If judges don't follow the rules, you're also not allowed to bitch about that, and if you do, we're just gonna call the dumb rules controversial and remove them and make more guidelines.

 

Would be interesting though if they actually checked their own protocols before they chose these examples, just to see if the judges actually all gave +3 for those golden standards. But yeah I know those are just guidelines, so not like it matters if they did.

[Neenah]

There is a teeny tiny problem with this whole "these bullet points are guidelines and not rules"  that the ISU seems to be missing. You can't have the bullet points be just guidelines and required at the same time. Those two things contradict each other.

A required bullet cannot be ignored and thus cannot be just a guideline in they way they are implying 

[Forcefield]

12 minutes ago, Eclair said:

finally watched it and I quote: 

'

 

 

Translation: These new +-5GOE bullet points are a guideline. So powerful fed skaters  or whoever you want can still receive high GOE easily and small fed skaters may tick off all bullet points but you still don't have to give them high GOE. 

 

 

translation: give your own skaters less deduction for the same mistakes than other skaters. 

 

 

My feelings on the outside: 

 

My feelings on the inside: 

[cirelle]

21 minutes ago, robin said:

 

I’ve known that it’s defined that way but no need to rub it in, Susan!! 

 

eta: LOL @ the bicycle example??? not sure if I understood correctly but... So they’re saying a jump can hit all the bullets but may not deserve the full GOE or put differently: the judges can do whatever the f they want? 

 

That’s what I thought too, but then they seemed to switch to the chart with negative GOE, so I guess the kind interpretation could be, the judges have to subtract the negative ”bullets”? Which they already have been doing, so I don’t understand anyway? 

[Pamigena]

11 minutes ago, cirelle said:

That’s what I thought too, but then they seemed to switch to the chart with negative GOE, so I guess the kind interpretation could be, the judges have to subtract the negative ”bullets”? Which they already have been doing, so I don’t understand anyway? 

 

I thought the bike thing was in regards to the "recommendation" that GOE +1 : 1 bullet, GOE +2 : 2 bullets etc. ...but, like guidelines, this is just a recommendation, so... I dunno, if a skater only hits 2 bullets, but for some reason the judge thinks that those 2 bullets were so amazing that they are more than the sum of their parts, they can reassemble their judging bike and give +3 instead. Or if a skater hits 3 bullets but the judge still wasn't impressed by the overall effect, they can just give +2 because this isn't math, these are guidelines and recommendations.

[Sombreuil]

Guidelines and recommendations- I don’t know how to infuse the level of gloom that those words provoke in me into a written post - it’s visceral. 

[OonsieHui]

1 hour ago, Forcefield said:

 

My feelings on the outside: 

 

My feelings on the inside: 

 

My feelings on the outside: 

My feelings on the inside: 

 

No seriously. This is just freaking annoying. They basically straight up admitted that despite all their talk they are going to keep being as arbitrary as ever. I mean, we always knew that the judging more then the system was the problem, but this is just so BLATENT it makes me 

 

P.s. apologies for the rant... I know it's just preaching to the choir here.... But I just needed to let it out. Again. 

[Anzi]

1 hour ago, OonsieHui said:

 

My feelings on the outside: 

My feelings on the inside: 

 

No seriously. This is just freaking annoying. They basically straight up admitted that despite all their talk they are going to keep being as arbitrary as ever. I mean, we always knew that the judging more then the system was the problem, but this is just so BLATENT it makes me 

 

P.s. apologies for the rant... I know it's just preaching to the choir here.... But I just needed to let it out. Again. 

On the one hand, the changing game rule opens the very possibilities for Yuzu getting a higher GOE as than before he deserves. On the other hand, the guildlines of the new rule still remain many ambiguities and confuse people especially in its definition of "some cases". That means some judges can still make an arbitrary score deliberately when the competitor deserves a higher grade. So I definitely agree with that the committee should keep focusing on the grading issues and make every effort to avoid any capricious and unreasonable marking. 

Btw, it is ironic to see they use Yuzu's 3a as the example of the  best execution. if I didn't misremember, in 2017 WC LP competition, some judges gave Yuzu's high-quality jump combination (3a included) a ZERO GOE. Good job and hope these judges retire ASAP.