General Skating Chat

[OonsieHui]

27 minutes ago, Old Cat Lady said:

 What I meant by that comment is that I don't think they're so spectacular that they absolutely have to be in every program and he has so many other options that he does well that I'd rather see him mix it up

 

 

Out of curiosity, what other said options are you referring to? 

[Neenah]

41 minutes ago, Old Cat Lady said:

I would agree that none of the other men do the Ina Bauer better and he's certainly does the best Bielmann of the top guys and 2nd best overall.  What I meant by that comment is that I don't think they're so spectacular that they absolutely have to be in every program and he has so many other options that he does well that I'd rather see him mix it up

 

As for the hydroblade, I guess I just don't like the move as much as others do though he does it well

You are off course entitled to your opinion but for me personally his Ina Bauer is spectacular. His is my favorite Ina Bauer among men and women and I love the hand flourishes he likes to add to it to express the music. I would really miss it if he stops doing it

[liv]

So, when did the Boyang at TCC thing happen?

[Danibellerika]

3 hours ago, OonsieHui said:

Are there really any more impressive ina bauer's out there amongst the men? Amongst the ladies yes but not amongst the men. His Biellman is again, second (?) best amongst the men currently. And literally no one else does hydroblade?

 

Idk, it feels a bit like "unless his 'x' is the best there's no point him doing it" which feels a bit ridiculous to me. 

 

That said, I do agree that primarily for me the important thing is that a spin or element fit the music, and honestly so far I feel like his ina baeur's and hydroblades have fit beautifully with the music. It can feel a tiny bit repetitive in that his free skates always have roughly the same elements, but honestly I'm not sure what else you can expect from him. 

 

I would love if Yuzu started incorporating that change of edge hydroblade (@14secs) into a stop into his competitive programs. It was super darn cool at CWW and it'd be another talking point for commentators to gush about its difficulty.  Or he can do a hydroblade into a jump. I haven't seen that done since Tim Goebel.  Basically, I'm in camp "evolve it". 

 

3 hours ago, hoodie axel said:

His was alright, not the fastest. A real example of bad hydroblades would be Medvedeva -- to the point I can't even call it a hydroblade.

 

I remember when she tried to put it in an ex program and waxed out on it.  She can ask Yuzu when she gets to cricket, I don't think he'd mind giving her a couple of pointers on it. 

[hoodie axel]

1 hour ago, Danibellerika said:

I would love if Yuzu started incorporating that change of edge hydroblade (@14secs) into a stop into his competitive programs.

Is that a COE hydroblade? Maybe I'm not seeing it properly, but it looks to me the COE comes in because he's exiting the element and standing up. It is excellent control, though, seeing how he holds his edge for so long through the exit, right till he finally stops.

[skateIT]

2 hours ago, liv said:

So, when did the Boyang at TCC thing happen?

Nothing has really been confirmed. A bit ago an CSA official said something to the effect that Boyang might go to TCC for summer training. Not a permanent move. (Those more knowledgeable please correct me, but this has been my impression.)

[Sammie]

1 minute ago, skateIT said:

Nothing has really been confirmed. A bit ago an CSA official said something to the effect that Boyang might go to TCC for summer training. Not a permanent move. (Those more knowledgeable please correct me, but this has been my impression.)

OT 

 

[skateIT]

1 minute ago, Sammie said:

OT 

 

OH MY GOSH. this is what I get for not checking twitter for 10 minutes

[Danibellerika]

49 minutes ago, hoodie axel said:

Is that a COE hydroblade? Maybe I'm not seeing it properly, but it looks to me the COE comes in because he's exiting the element and standing up. It is excellent control, though, seeing how he holds his edge for so long through the exit, right till he finally stops.

Yeah that's what I mean. Inside edge hydro to an outside edge all the way until he stops.  Super cool! Usually he gets up from the inside edge and keeps it moving. 

[Sammie]

5 minutes ago, skateIT said:

OH MY GOSH. this is what I get for not checking twitter for 10 minutes

My tl have been flooded lately and I’m surprised that tweet came through. 

[hoodie axel]

3 hours ago, Danibellerika said:

I remember when she tried to put it in an ex program and waxed out on it. 

I actually had more of this in mind:

 

That's just not a hydroblade. Your example shows why exactly she isn't doing a real one as a transition, because she doesn't have the requisite control, or the edging. Boyang's had control, and he was able to get close to the ice while maintaining a good edge (though it's really quite briefly held), while Yuzuru's is great, of course, especially because of how long he can hold it for.

[yuzuangel]

6 hours ago, hoodie axel said:

His was alright, not the fastest. A real example of bad hydroblades would be Medvedeva -- to the point I can't even call it a hydroblade.

And Gracie Gold (sorry).

[hoodie axel]

Just now, yuzuangel said:

And Gracie Gold (sorry).

I didn't know she did one! (Will see)

[yuzuangel]

4 minutes ago, hoodie axel said:

I didn't know she did one! (Will see)

She did for one season in her Assasin's Tango program. At least Medvedeva doesn't put it in her competitive programs oh wait she does

[Old Cat Lady]

5 hours ago, OonsieHui said:

 

Out of curiosity, what other said options are you referring to? 

 

5 hours ago, Neenah said:

You are off course entitled to your opinion but for me personally his Ina Bauer is spectacular. His is my favorite Ina Bauer among men and women and I love the hand flourishes he likes to add to it to express the music. I would really miss it if he stops doing it

 

No, no, no, that's not what I'm trying to say at all.  I don't think Yuzu should drop ANY of his moves.  They are all great when it's their moment - even the butt spin has its place.  What I'm saying is that they should be saved for the right moment rather than added because they are a signature Hanyu move. 

 

When I think about his choreographers, his strongest programs were made by Jeff Buttle.  Don't get me wrong - Semei is possibly my favorite LP of all time and H&L was great, but I think the difference between Buttle vs Shae/David is that Shae/David sort of string known elements together in a way that works with the program whereas Buttle adapts the moves to the music. He uses Yuzu's highlight moves sparingly, only when it is absolutely right for the nuance in the music that he's trying to highlight, and often adjusts it in a way that better suits the program or outright creates a new move.  When I look at LGC, not only is the knee slide unique to that program but with only one program, it's become an iconic move.  In addition to that slide, there's a leap in the step sequence that perfectly matches the music and is unique to that program.   That kick at the end of the axel - once again, so distinctive and perfect for the program.  It's the same with Parisian Walkways and Ballade - there are all these little moves that are special to those programs and make the programs special.   It's not that I don't want Yuzu to use his other signature moves, it's that by reserving them only for the most perfect moment, it allows room for all these other possibilities while making his signature moves even more glorious when you do get to see them.

 

It's not about how well he does the Ina Bauer/hydroblade/Biellman or whether he does other things better than these or about how well anyone else does these moves, or even that I think they are a bad choreographic choice.  It's that they often aren't optimal choices.  I would miss them if any of them went away completely but I don't find them necessary.  He has the best hydroblade in the business and it was great in Semei.  Actually, he doesn't really use it that much so I mis-wrote earlier.  His Ina Bauer is fantastic to highlight long dramatic moments in the music - I love the change edge Ina Bauer to the sweeping parts of the music in R&J1.  The softness of the Biellman was perfect for Notte Stellata and H&L.   However, I also think there were several times that they were used where there was a better choice.  Yuzu can do almost anything well and Jeff has proven that with all the innovative details in his programs which we wouldn't have gotten to see if Jeff always tried to cram Yuzu's signature moves into the programs.  

 

 

6 hours ago, hoodie axel said:

The SP has to have a 2A or a 3A. The 4A can be the solo jump, or done in combination. Unless someone can do steps into a solo 4A, it will probably left for the FS (or not done at all, because of the proposed new reward for it).

 

Ah, that's what I figured.  Between the lowered BV and the loss of GOE, it wouldn't be worth doing in the short unless Yuzu is even more amazing than we imagine.

 

5 minutes ago, hoodie axel said:

I actually had more of this in mind:

 

That's just not a hydroblade. Your example shows why exactly she isn't doing a real one as a transition, because she doesn't have the requisite control, or the edging. Boyang's had control, and he was able to get close to the ice while maintaining a good edge (though it's really quite briefly held), while Yuzuru's is great, of course, especially because of how long he can hold it for.

 

I think this program is beautiful but it never even occurred to me that, that was supposed to be a hydroblade.    I'll give this one to you ...  THAT is the worst hydroblade I've ever seen, if that's what she was going for