General Skating Chat

[Murieleirum]

AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO IS EXTREMELY HAPPY IF BOYANG GOES TO TCC

 

(I've always thought Boyang would be a great kohai to senpai Yuzuru)

[moonkat]

7 hours ago, cinemacoconut said:

 

 

I heard that may yuzu and jin fans overlap. Is this true? Why is it so when they are competing against each other.

 

 

Also why is it that Nathan and yuzu fans rarely overlap but Boyang fans overlap with yuzu?

 

Opinions please

Altie did a good job in explaining why.

I love skaters who look effortless and look like they are flying or floating, whether it be in SS or jumps.

Ex: Yuzu, Boyang, Jun Hwan, and Yuna. 

[xeyra]

According to a poster at GS, in order to be able to achieve +4/+5 GOE in a jump pass, a skater must achieve the following:

- very good height and very good distance (all jumps in the sequence)

- very good take-off and landing

- effortless throughout

 

These are 3 main bullets that have to be achieved and only if all three are achieved, then the extra bullets can be earned (+4 and +5). If a skater only achieves two of these main bullet points but hits 3 additional ones, they are still "capped" at +3.

 

 

[yuzuangel]

12 hours ago, MrPudding said:

seems legit now

Wow

I hope this ends up good for Yuzu, too

[singermelodie1]

49 minutes ago, xeyra said:

According to a poster at GS, in order to be able to achieve +4/+5 GOE in a jump pass, a skater must achieve the following:

- very good height and very good distance (all jumps in the sequence)

- very good take-off and landing

- effortless throughout

 

These are 3 main bullets that have to be achieved and only if all three are achieved, then the extra bullets can be earned (+4 and +5). If a skater only achieves two of these main bullet points but hits 3 additional ones, they are still "capped" at +3.

Yuzuru got this

[hoodie axel]

5 hours ago, xeyra said:

According to a poster at GS, in order to be able to achieve +4/+5 GOE in a jump pass, a skater must achieve the following:

- very good height and very good distance (all jumps in the sequence)

- very good take-off and landing

- effortless throughout

 

These are 3 main bullets that have to be achieved and only if all three are achieved, then the extra bullets can be earned (+4 and +5). If a skater only achieves two of these main bullet points but hits 3 additional ones, they are still "capped" at +3.

Sure "very good" height and distance.

Sure, judges, sure.

 

(Though, this looks surprisingly like a bit of what BoP from GS keeps saying, I think, did he push for this I wonder. Good on him if he did! edit: NVM, his GOE bullets are different)

[yuzuangel]

31 minutes ago, hoodie axel said:

Sure "very good" height and distance.

Sure, judges, sure.

 

(Though, this looks surprisingly like a bit of what BoP from GS keeps saying, I think, did he push for this I wonder. Good on him if he did! )

I think in theory, this sounds great. And makes sense. Flow, height, and effortlessness should be the most important parts of a jump, and if say, a tano makes your jump less effortless, then that should not give more GOE than a tano-less jump with more effortlessness.

 

At least it gives fans more fodder when a jump that's obviously not effortless starts getting +4 or +5 

[hoodie axel]

3 minutes ago, yuzuangel said:

At least it gives fans more fodder when a jump that's obviously not effortless starts getting +4 or +5 

That's what I'm scared of! Koola King's already making videos of Medvedeva's flutzes getting +5s, and her jumps are the opposite of effrortless.

[hoodie axel]

BTW @xeyra where was this announcement?

[swanbeau]

i posted this in the general chat but its more suited here:

 

in general there are two ways i look at the things that will get affected by the new rules; Performance-wise and Score-wise. And it affects skaters differently.

 

about the possibilities of new rules affecting yuzuru Performance-wise:

 

2 hours ago, swanbeau said:

IMO, yuzu will definitely benefit from the less 30s for free programs rules. His stamina is better these days but sometimes you can see his ChSq (or the last 15s or so before finally spin) is not as sharp as he usually is in practice. He already has really short set up and he even already practice the '5 jumps within 1 min 30 s' with as many transitions. 3A still get the same bv (if true) and it's his best jump. And if the no quad repetion is true, then the quads in his arsenal are, 4T n 4S (very stable, can do it in combination), 4Lo (can get it back), 4Lz (depends on his ankle but it'll likely come back in the future tho we might not see it for a while). He even plans to land 4A in thr near future.

 

Like, I see little to no downside to this for yuzu, performance-wise. (1 downside probably he just needs to continue being focused bc if not then he might messed up the timing bc the jumps are so close to each other, but this can get easier with training).

 

Other skaters (especially who had long set ups or hasnt mastered the different rythmn of the different jumps) on the other hand, welp. I dont know.

 

Anyway I said performance-wise, because score will always be like this if judges still score them like how they always score. Skaters from the big 3 fed will somehow get some kind of overlooked, or inflation, or something. its just how its always been.

 

About the No-Quad-Repetition Rules Score-wise; and Varieties in type of jumps:

1 hour ago, swanbeau said:

The thing is since the number of jumps get decreased to 7, skaters could be unmotivated to learn the jumps that theyre not good with and just repeated the same jumps they're good at in combination. I mean zayak rules exist for a reason. And unlike in ladies where the jump option available is not that much (and therefore the layouts from top skaters dont differ too much from each other, unless youre alina and you had -3lo combination n put it all in your secondhalf lol), a lot of the men,  top 12 men even maybe, had at least 1 type of quad, and top 5 men had more than 2 type of quads, edit: men also have 3A.  so there is a lot more option, and a lot of possibilities of combination. Even with 8 jumps some skaters already dropped a jump type theyre not good with. Ex: kolyada dont jump flip anymore. So if youre not good at a type of jump now theyre even MORE motivated to drop said jump, this strategy is definitely more beneficial now more than ever, and that's not in line with what isu had in mind as an ideal. Which is, varieties. 

 

For ex, since nate is good at 4lz n 4f, he could just do 4lz 4f 4lz+3t 4f+2t 4t+2t 3a 3lo

 

And just forget about salchow. And since 4lz and 4f had highest bv, he doubled his bv advantage.

 

Just by repeating them and even barely landing them, he is guaranteed a win imo lol especially with the way judges giving goe like candies these days. Dont even start to talk about pcs.

 

This is the same for all skaters. Yuzu could drop the flip jump entirely (Tho his personality might not allow it) but the new rules (w/o the no quads repetition) is designed to change the perspective on jumping that flip from no-advantage-but-no-real-disadvantage-either to just straight up Disadvantage-and-would-be-pretty-stupid-to-jump-it. Shoma could avoid lutz entirely. Etc etc.

 

Its not just about the quads. Its about varieties in the type of jumps, and that include triples too.

 

Anyway, this maybe is more suited to skating talk soz *sweats*

 

i sure hope i'm not the only one here who agrees with the no-quad-repetition rules?  because without it, what could happen might be my worst nightmare because:

 

less 30s means less one foot skating for skaters that had not-short set-ups (most skaters do this) -> skaters who still choose to cram quads in those will suffer performance-wise (my eyes will cry and possibility of me getting bored will get exponentially higher) -> skaters who land difficult quads in repeat will get advantage anyway -> pcs is already fixed more or less for top skaters, it definitely wont go down -> some judges and technical panel usual fckery -> worser perfomance* than before this season could generally win any competition later -> my worst nightmare as an (online) audience

 

*by worser i mean, a lot of 2 foot skating, less transitions in general, a lot of posturing, from a jump to another jump is boring, a whole lot more of skaters will cut choreo sequence, imagine something like nathan's chsq becoming the norm , etc, edit: not a lot of varieties in jumps could also counts towards worser performance imo, since 'varied arm position' will literally has to be varied now, no more ugly tanos on all the jumps

 

the no-quad-repetition is by means, not really solving this issue, but it will at least reduce the inflated score that it will inevitably follow, and it affects all skaters with no exception, unlike judging changes which some big fed skaters could maaaayybe ~somehow evade. At least no one will straight up bring a layout that's against this no-quad-repetition rule and not get straight up penalized lmao

 

just another perspective to add to the new rule discussion  please if anyone has anything to add, or even disagree with, i want to hear! this discussion is interesting

[Forcefield]

5 hours ago, hoodie axel said:

That's what I'm scared of! Koola King's already making videos of Medvedeva's flutzes getting +5s, and her jumps are the opposite of effrortless.

 

Welp, you had a university professor's research going public that Shoma has better height in his jumps (and perhaps even distance?) than Yuzu. So maybe to that professor Shoma has +5 in the bag. At this point, it's not too far fetched to think that at least one judge will go for that 5. I mean I feel like I've seen everything.

 

Even Shoma and Nathan gets decent GOEs under the 3 point system for their jumps while Yuzu doesn't always get 3's across the board. Hypothetically an *ahem* judge could decide that *ahem* has a +5 jump, and for some reason that won't be a stretch, meanwhile the Chinese judge gets reviewed.

[hoodie axel]

19 minutes ago, Forcefield said:

Hypothetically an *ahem* judge could decide that *ahem* has a +5 jump, and for some reason that won't be a stretch, meanwhile the Chinese judge gets reviewed.

*ahem* judge might even place *ahem* skater 3rd in PCS, and... ELEPHANT 6th in TES, and it would still be fine, but the Chinese judge would get reviewed. 

[kaeryth]

1 hour ago, swanbeau said:

The thing is since the number of jumps get decreased to 7, skaters could be unmotivated to learn the jumps that theyre not good with and just repeated the same jumps they're good at in combination

 

Alternatively, skaters with only a 4T or a 4S will now train and compete with quads that they haven't practiced well because they are not competitive BV wise with just 1 or 2 quads. So we might see even more splats and injuries because they'll start going for the higher BV (and more difficult) quads - 4Lz, 4F, 4Lo. And we do see a trend with judges of more quads = higher pcs.

[kaeryth]

Um.... Melbourne is bidding for 4CC 2021????? /Yuzu please stay til 2021 and get 4CC gold.. thanks!/

[source]

[swanbeau]

1 minute ago, kaeryth said:

 

Alternatively, skaters with only a 4T or a 4S will now train and compete with quads that they haven't practiced well because they are not competitive BV wise with just 1 or 2 quads. So we might see even more splats and injuries because they'll start going for the higher BV (and more difficult) quads - 4Lz, 4F, 4Lo. And we do see a trend with judges of more quads = higher pcs.

 

yes, thats the point im making? umm i hope i understand what you mean is that with less jumps and no-quad-repetition NOT applied, skaters with 1 type of quads could be disadvantaged? or you mean with that rule applied?