General Skating Chat

[xeyra]

3 minutes ago, SparkleSalad said:

 

Such a nasty, bitter rivalry.

 

source 

 

Cuuuuute. 

[Murieleirum]

1 hour ago, CupidsBow said:

Shoma might benefit from it but I doubt he's pleased to get a new PB (even by 0.1 points) on a performance he knows was not the best he could deliver and wasn't better than the SP he performed at Worlds after a whole season of refining the program. I wouldn't be, at least. He got 45.70 PCS for Worlds and Lombardia, and that's ridiculous.

 

You know what's hard? When people around you tell you something and you have to stick to your own convictions. I think this might apply to Shoma: I think he's fully aware of how much he can and has to improve, but it's hard to think "I did not deserve that score", because you're always trying your best and when you get rewarded, you're just happy, you know?

 

And I guess this is why I hate unfair judging so much: it's unfair for the skater as well. It's unfair to Shoma. 45 PCS in September is like telling him 'oh, okay, you're good like this, don't really need to change anything'. 

[CupidsBow]

Just now, Murieleirum said:

 

You know what's hard? When people around you tell you something and you have to stick to your own convictions. I think this might apply to Shoma: I think he's fully aware of how much he can and has to improve, but it's hard to think "I did not deserve that score", because you're always trying your best and when you get rewarded, you're just happy, you know?

 

And I guess this is why I hate unfair judging so much: it's unfair for the skater as well. It's unfair to Shoma. 45 PCS in September is like telling him 'oh, okay, you're good like this, don't really need to change anything'. 

 

IDK Shoma seems pretty aware of his weaknesses and is constantly saying he needs to improve and often sells himself short.

I mean it definitely does suck but rather than him getting complacent I worry he's gonna lose all trust in any compliments he receives tbh. He usually would, idk, react to a score like that but he was pretty nonresponsive when it came in. I imagine it's super frustrating to have a performance in September that you know wasn't your best outscoring what was a high point in your career so far at the end of the season that you had been, rightfully, very happy with. 

 

but yeah the dodgy judging is bad for the sport and bad for the skaters. Why work on PCS when you know you're gonna get 9s anyway if you bump your tech? Why both with SS and TR when they'll get a good score just for having high tech and reasonably good, idk, interpretation? I mean, luckily skaters are athletes and are the types of people who always push to be better but of course its hard to care about components when the judging is arbitrary, or even technique when the judges are easily wowed by attempts barely landed. (not that Shoma isnt working on his jumps. he is) 

[Murieleirum]

2 minutes ago, CupidsBow said:

I mean it definitely does suck but rather than him getting complacent I worry he's gonna lose all trust in any compliments he receives tbh.

 

Yes, Shoma gives out that vibe more than the 'omg so I really am the best skater out there' vibe. I noticed too yesterday that he didn't look as happy as he could have been with that huge score. 

 

In the end, as someone said, 'score is score, performance is performance', so maybe we should follow the example of the skaters we love, and focus on other things besides numbers... even though the temptation is so strong. Especially when one is afraid that their own favourite will get mistreated. 

[CupidsBow]

15 minutes ago, Murieleirum said:

 

Yes, Shoma gives out that vibe more than the 'omg so I really am the best skater out there' vibe. I noticed too yesterday that he didn't look as happy as he could have been with that huge score. 

 

In the end, as someone said, 'score is score, performance is performance', so maybe we should follow the example of the skaters we love, and focus on other things besides numbers... even though the temptation is so strong. Especially when one is afraid that their own favourite will get mistreated. 

 

we should try but i say this knowing i will also be a ball of rage if yuzu gets chronically underscored at any point lol

[Xen]

16 minutes ago, CupidsBow said:

 

IDK Shoma seems pretty aware of his weaknesses and is constantly saying he needs to improve and often sells himself short.

I mean it definitely does suck but rather than him getting complacent I worry he's gonna lose all trust in any compliments he receives tbh. He usually would, idk, react to a score like that but he was pretty nonresponsive when it came in. I imagine it's super frustrating to have a performance in September that you know wasn't your best outscoring what was a high point in your career so far at the end of the season that you had been, rightfully, very happy with. 

 

but yeah the dodgy judging is bad for the sport and bad for the skaters. Why work on PCS when you know you're gonna get 9s anyway if you bump your tech? Why both with SS and TR when they'll get a good score just for having high tech and reasonably good, idk, interpretation? I mean, luckily skaters are athletes and are the types of people who always push to be better but of course its hard to care about components when the judging is arbitrary, or even technique when the judges are easily wowed by attempts barely landed. (not that Shoma isnt working on his jumps. he is) 

The worst part is not so much skaters know...it's that PCS and artistry is already a very subjective topic to begin with. The way they are judging makes artistry and PCS something that is extremely fickle. Think about young skaters- when you're younger, you might not have a concrete idea of what will be judged as artistic, so you rely on the judges scores to tell you what would be viewed as artistic. So you look at the scores of 2 skaters you admire and they feel kind of the same. But one gets a constant stream of 8's and another a constant strem of 9's. So you wonder, why is that? And at some point you get jaded about this.

 

All skaters, I think, when learning try to be complete skaters, artistic and athletic. It's a disservice to the younger skaters who might aim to be an olympic champ to give them such a jaded view of how artistry is judged...my 2 cents.

[Forcefield]

I think it works the other way too. It's demoralizing if a skater does a performance of his/her life and puts in all of his/her emotions but does not get a PCS score higher than perhaps a previous score that he/she wasn't all that into. And it probably is confusing as hell too.

 

Imagine if Shoma is able to increase his interpretation and connection to the music at a later competition, but he has hit the ceiling as to how much the judges are willing to give because of how high scores are now, its a shame.

[xeyra]

Of those who've been around for a while, who was it who said (and to whom) that Yuzu was the one who was going to break this scoring system? I think Yuzu was still 17-18 back then. I remember reading something like this but don't remember the source or where I read it. 

[yuzuangel]

IIRC, they always change the scoring system whenever one skater gets too dominant. I.e. after Vancouver, they increased the value of the 3A, got rid of spiral sequences, and made a rule saying you can't repeat doubles more than twice, which seemed to disadvantage Yuna over her main rival, Mao, although the incredible inconsistency and lack of technical advancement in the years following Vancouver made it so that she was able to win anyway. 

 

Frankly, all of these changes make me sort of glad I never tried competitive figure skating in my youth, because all of these constant changes would have driven me crazy, and the subjectivity of PCS and even TES scoring (i.e. underrotation calls) would have killed my confidence the moment I felt like I got an unfavorable call. I'm remembering when Deniss and Stephane were talking about the underrotation call on Deniss' lutz, like, if I thought I rotated a jump and the slowmo showed I rotated it, but the judges say otherwise and there's nothing I can do about it, it would really kill my motivation. Kudos to the skaters who are probably mentally much stronger than I am.  

[Forcefield]

19 minutes ago, yuzuangel said:

IIRC, they always change the scoring system whenever one skater gets too dominant. I.e. after Vancouver, they increased the value of the 3A, got rid of spiral sequences, and made a rule saying you can't repeat doubles more than twice, which seemed to disadvantage Yuna over her main rival, Mao, although the incredible inconsistency and lack of technical advancement in the years following Vancouver made it so that she was able to win anyway. 

 

Frankly, all of these changes make me sort of glad I never tried competitive figure skating in my youth, because all of these constant changes would have driven me crazy, and the subjectivity of PCS and even TES scoring (i.e. underrotation calls) would have killed my confidence the moment I felt like I got an unfavorable call. I'm remembering when Deniss and Stephane were talking about the underrotation call on Deniss' lutz, like, if I thought I rotated a jump and the slowmo showed I rotated it, but the judges say otherwise and there's nothing I can do about it, it would really kill my motivation. Kudos to the skaters who are probably mentally much stronger than I am.  

 

Ditto.

 

And not only that, it's downright heartbreaking because of the fact that many of these skaters love figure skating so much.

 

As just fans, if even we will cry buckets, imagine if you were actually the skater who put the hard work in.

[Aotoshiro]

7 hours ago, SparkleSalad said:

 

Such a nasty, bitter rivalry.

 

source 

Dear Pooh, we really needed that here.

I really do wonder about nasty rivalry vs friendly rivalry thing... y'know, JpnTv paints ShomavsYuzu the same way they did YuzuvsDai (aka. 'the rising star threatens the Ace!'), meanwhile with JaviVsYuzu they were pretty much 'd'aww they're such good friends and rinkmates, and colleagues, oh, and top two skaters in the world I guess, which means rivals, but it doesn't really matter, kind of, you know? Because they're SO FRIENDLY <3 <3 <3' Like. Shouldn't they paint their own as more friendly? Like, for patriotic purposes? 'Sharing hinomaru's weight on their shoulders on top of the world' or something? Idk? Guess the local drama sells better than overseas war...?

[SSS]

12 hours ago, katonice said:

The problem is, there is no accountability at all it seems. I know they do some sort of score review after the competition, but do they actually talk about anything useful during these sessions? 

they are probably having fancy dinner only...My guess

by the end of this season...No difference in goe and pcs if everyone is clean...I am going to get heart attack...

 

[kaeryth]

7 hours ago, xeyra said:

Of those who've been around for a while, who was it who said (and to whom) that Yuzu was the one who was going to break this scoring system? I think Yuzu was still 17-18 back then. I remember reading something like this but don't remember the source or where I read it. 

 

It was from one of Max Ambesi's translated podcast

Quote

And last consideration, I recall the words that one of most well know Italian specialists, Lorenzo Magri said to me.

It was in December 2012, and I was attending the Italian National Championships that were at the same time of the Japanese National championships.

With one eye, I was watching the competition in Japan on the pc and with the other one, I was following Stafania Berton / Ondrej Hotarek in practice.
 

... At the end of the men event (of Japanese Nats, TN) - I don't remember if it was the short or the free skating – I went to Lorenzo and told him what Yuzuru Hanyu had done.
He told me these words that every now and then, even after all this years, they still come to my mind. He said: “Pay attention Massimiliano, because Yuzuru Hanyu will be the skater that will make the ISU change the rules for the free skating, because this is a boy who has no limits and I don't know how far he can get”.

 

TBH if they change the rulebook Yuzu will probably find it a challenge and try to break the system again

[SparkleSalad]

29 minutes ago, kaeryth said:

 

It was from one of Max Ambesi's translated podcast

 

TBH if they change the rulebook Yuzu will probably find it a challenge and try to break the system again

 

Italy knows what's up.

 

 

And he so will. Keep changing the system and maybe he'll never leave! 

[katonice]

14 hours ago, xeyra said:

 

Supposedly getting rid of anonymous judging should have helped curb some things but I'm not sure it did anything other than make it more transparent to the informed skating fan the political tint of certain scorings. LOL at the examples given by the skating protocol instagram on Ice Dance. 

Sometimes it just feels like the judging panel think the viewing public is stupid. It's like they don't think we have eyes of our own, and are not knowledgeable enough to see what good skating really looks like. Probably jumping to conclusions, but I can almost see some of them laughing to themselves knowing they can pretty much do anything and damn if there's anyone watching because we're powerless to do anything anyway. That thought is what really gets me angry sometimes