General Skating Chat

[Xen]

@fireovertheice: Thank you for the video link! Love Max and Angelo's analysis. Now they're making me want to learn Italian just so I won't need to wait for translations. T_T And romance languages are ones I generally have a weird mental block for. If I'm not wrong, they were also gushing a bit about the technique of Boyang's lutz? With all those arrows and stuff.

@Eclair: Thank you for the compliment. =) It was actually a bit harder than I thought initially to translate, and now reading it over again, I think I might have to reword some sections.

 

hmm...I wouldn't be that pessimistic. Actually what Zhao is doing is completely changing the entire system of figure skating in China. I know it seems weird, but the schooling system in China is pretty bad for supporting athletes. Actually it's pretty bad if your focus is not on becoming a scientist or engineer. Essentially, home schooling is not really an option, so many skaters if they want to go pro, essentially drop out of the education system from elementary school onwards. So many professional athletes before end up essentially "flipping burgers at McDonald's" after they retire. Maybe you know already, since you understand Chinese, but for those who don't know, below is probably more a background of the environment that Zhao is working under. Placed the reply under spoiler since it's long.

Spoiler

So being able to provide education/school at the same time as allowing training, is a significant undertaking. While China has specialist sports schools, kind of like arts academies, that allow athletes to split time between training and education, those options are not open until much later and after you get on a professional team. What Zhao is speaking about, is making it so that balance can be achieved even if you go to a non-specialist school. And that is significant for a system that is more than happy to throw art, music and physical education classes under the bus so more time can be spent to cram for math, sciences and the standardized tests. I did spend time in the Chinese education system, and starting around 1-2 months before finals, my school schedule pretty much consisted nothing other than math, literature, english, from 9 am till 8 pm, every day, 6 days a week, starting back in 6th grade. I left China before high school, but I do remember sometimes even going to school on sunday if a major national exam was coming up. China is a fiercely competitive society when it comes to education- these days, some kindergartens even interview parents to determine if the children are up to the school's standards before accepting the child. Think of a college application process being started at the preschool level- that's China's landscape.  So for all families, they have to decide whether or not they want to forefeit education for a sport with an unstable future. Many opt not to, so to increase the pool of talent, this is something that has to be done, but something that was never done before-integrating sports and normal education, so families would consider sport a decent option.

 

Also implied in the discussion of artistic sensibilities needing to be trained once they reach nationals team, and the question about the timing/window for training that-that's an attack on the entire system of education in China. Only in the past couple of years have people started focusing on training basic cultural awareness and understanding, but even so, arts classes are easily shoved under the bus when national exams are coming. There was also recently an article in China about how due to us cutting physical education classes, we're physically behind the rest of east asia for physical fitness. So Zhao is taking on a monumental task that most other federations may not need to do. Also, he didn't say just one or 2 dance performances, he said that his team follows the entire normal season of performances for a dance company (and in Beijing, that's definitely one of the large national ones). I would say that with Boyang's SP this season, some skaters are developing their own styles. But as Zhao said, it takes time,  a lot of time that needs to be built up since childhood, something that many skaters under the chinese general education system would lack.

 

As for Lori, I think what they like is that her team can do everything that is needed. So the fed doesn't have to go shop everywhere. But I wouldn't say that they will never leave Lori-besides that is not a declaration you make or even hint at on national TV. Chinese fed essentially wants to focus on building up the skillsets of its own coaches so they are less reliant on foreign coaches or specialists. But they are open to having foreign specialists on even a permanent basis. For example, the ice dance coach is foreign, and the fitness trainer for the national team is also foreign. So there is a possibility that a foreign specialist could even be brought into the Chinese national coaching staff on a permanent basis. So consider instead of Boyang going overseas, what if the Chinese team just manages to convince Misha Ge to join the chinese coaching staff?  And I don't think the door is closed to having athletes train long term overseas- it would be an extreme move, but Chinese fed, if push comes to shove, would consider it if it is the most effective option.

 

As for skating skills-again, what Zhao says is that they make the athletes do everything thoroughly in practice. But it is a process that takes time. And what Shen Xue is doing is standardizing and raising the level of coaches in China in both national training rinks and even commercial rinks. And to a degree, I'm not worried. I skate in China, and hear stuff through the grapevine- something like last year my city/provence sent around 100 or so skaters to take the nationals levels test, and something like less than 10% passed. There were little girls who were capable of doing 2Lz not passing because the judges didn't consider their knee and ankle action textbook enough on crossovers. I've seen that little girl in action before, trust me, in US she can pass in flying colors.

 

As for english, it's part of our national standardized exams and finals starting from elementary school. There are kindergarten schools that conduct 1-2 (or more) classes in english so the chinese students are immensed in english from a young age. Costs a fortune to enroll, but those schools are thriving.

 

[fireovertheice]

Dear @Xen thank you so much for the translation of Zhao interview and for all these infos about skating environement but also education system in China: our countries are all so different in these departements and to have first hand informations is very interesting.

 

About the video of Max and Angelo and the Boyang's 4Lz (5.30-7.20 ca.): from the infographic maybe you can understand that they look first at the edge of the left foot, also to explain to non expert people which is one of the characteristics of the lutz, and they say that Jin has a correct edge lutz. Then they make people notice the right foot and how the skate point into the ice correctly to rotate and jump, i.e. with the toepick and with a minimum, if not, prerotation on the ice. After that they stress also the height of this 4Lz and the position of the body in the air - correct body alignment and the peculiar position of the arms, very similar to a diver. The conclusion is that it was a textbook jump.

 

After that they make a comparison with Dima's 4Lz (8.04-9.43) noticing that while his edge there was also correct, the right foot give the push to jump using the blade and with a clear prerotation (almost 180°) on the ice. Also the landing is shorter of something more than 90°. For them this is not a Lutz but a Loop/ Rittberger and with a big pre-rotation and a slight UR: so it should have counted in the scores not as a proper 4Lz, but actually as a little more than a 3Lo.

 

At the end they stress the fact that actually the high quality 4Lz of Boyang received just 1.86 while Dimitri had 1.57; they also explained that maybe it was so because for both skaters  4Lz is in combination with a 3T, and we have to take in consideration that the score is for the entire combination. In every case they would have given an higher score to Jin for this element (at least a full +2).

 

Then they make similar observation on Shoma's 4Flip (11.35-13.05 ca.): first they make notice the different edge in comparison with the Lz, for people watching FS only at Oly and maybe not knowing that, concluding that the edge here was correct. Then they observe also here the clear prerotation (in the slow-mo very clear). Also here with that sort of the use of the entire blade/edge and the prerotation. So: it had to be counted as a 3Lo or - at least - as a 4Lo; if counted also as a 4Lo, anyway, in the LP/FS should be counted as a REP,  because  in that case Shoma has also a 4Lo, while this is never happened.

 

However,  throughout this section of their commentary, they also stated that rules don't take in consideration the problem of the prerotation but only of the URs; that's why TP don't call PR but just UR. In doing so, the current system in the end penalizes the skaters with a correct and clear jumping technique - as Yuzuru or Boyang - in respect to the others. Or, at least, skater with a correct jumping technique should be rewarded more in the scores (GOEs) in comparison with the others.

 

To note: this is my summary of a part of the video and not the literal translation of what they said there. 

[cinemacoconut]

38 minutes ago, monchan said:

Not for me. I like Yuzu for his beautiful skating and work ethics more than the top spot. I find absolutely no interest in others be it Shoma, Nathan, Boyang or the ladies, simply cuz I don't like their skating. If he leaves I might leave FS too except I find new talent that makes me in love w their perfs like Yuzu.

 

 

Yeah but like the rubber band effect or rebound, I and many others I predict will go fan over the dominant skater after yuzus retirement to fill the void for a few seasons and slowly lose interest in FS haha. Its not so much the skating to some people but the legendary presence and excitement that dominant skaters can bring to the sport. Like how Michael Phelps made swimming more fun at the olympics. 

 

I think its great that there is Zagitova in the ladies to keep figure skating alive in the ladies singles after yuzu retires. If Eteri didnt have a powerhouse of russian ladies to dominate the ladies figure skating, figure skating would die down in terms of popularity compared to how yuzu is skyrocketing FS internationally right now. Yuzu is raising the popularity of Figure Skating itself right now globally. But Skating fans know that yuzus retirement is not far off (1~3 seasons, 4 season at max). So they are looking for the next big figure skating star. Nathan is good but doesnt have the star power like yuzu. Medvedeva has star power but dominated for 2 seasons, and then is losing to Zagitova who seems to have better jumping and better musicality. 

 

So my predictions are that when yuzu retires some percentage of his fans may flock to either Nathan Chen or Zagitova (it depends how well they do from now), to fill the retirement blues and void from yuzus absence. Figure skating would be much more boring without yuzu in the picture Im sure. Its like losing Michael Jackson. And it will feel like how swimming fans felt when Michael Phelps finally and officially retired after Rio olympics. Major depression at first haha

[yuzupon]

1 hour ago, fireovertheice said:

Dear @Xen thank you so much for the translation of Zhao interview and for all these infos about skating environement but also education system in China: our countries are all so different in these departements and to have first hand informations is very interesting.

 

About the video of Max and Angelo and the Boyang's 4Lz (5.30-7.20 ca.): from the infographic maybe you can understand that they look first at the edge of the left foot, also to explain to non expert people which is one of the characteristics of the lutz, and they say that Jin has a correct edge lutz. Then they make people notice the right foot and how the skate point into the ice correctly to rotate and jump, i.e. with the toepick and with a minimum, if not, prerotation on the ice. After that they stress also the height of this 4Lz and the position of the body in the air - correct body alignment and the peculiar position of the arms, very similar to a diver. The conclusion is that it was a textbook jump.

 

After that they make a comparison with Dima's 4Lz (8.04-9.43) noticing that while his edge there was also correct, the right foot give the push to jump using the blade and with a clear prerotation (almost 180°) on the ice. Also the landing is shorter of something more than 90°. For them this is not a Lutz but a Loop/ Rittberger and with a big pre-rotation and a slight UR: so it should have counted in the scores not as a proper 4Lz, but actually as a little more than a 3Lo.

 

At the end they stress the fact that actually the high quality 4Lz of Boyang received just 1.86 while Dimitri had 1.57; they also explained that maybe it was so because for both skaters  4Lz is in combination with a 3T, and we have to take in consideration that the score is for the entire combination. In every case they would have given an higher score to Jin for this element (at least a full +2).

 

Then they make similar observation on Shoma's 4Flip (11.35-13.05 ca.): first they make notice the different edge in comparison with the Lz, for people watching FS only at Oly and maybe not knowing that, concluding that the edge here was correct. Then they observe also here the clear prerotation (in the slow-mo very clear). Also here with that sort of the use of the entire blade/edge and the prerotation. So: it had to be counted as a 3Lo or - at least - as a 4Lo; if counted also as a 4Lo, anyway, in the LP/FS should be counted as a REP,  because  in that case Shoma has also a 4Lo, while this is never happened.

 

However,  throughout this section of their commentary, they also stated that rules don't take in consideration the problem of the prerotation but only of the URs; that's why TP don't call PR but just UR. In doing so, the current system in the end penalise the skaters with a correct and clear jumping technique - as Yuzuru or Boyang - in respect to the others. Or, at least, skater with a correct jumping technique should be rewarded more in the scores (GOEs) in comparison with the others.

 

To note: this is my summary of a part of the video and not the literal translation of what they said there. 

Thanks!

 

I only understand very little Italian - and even less when they talk that fast, but I get the gist. The PR and full-blade picks have been among the things we discussed in this forum. I am so happy that at least in one corner of the world it is being talked publicly. 

 

Remember when Zu's said that artistry can only shine when you have correct techniques? That he strives for the 'technical omnipotence' as the Italian commentators call it, is why, even if Zu's aesthetics do not appeal to all people, there's a relatively common understanding and acknowledgement, however begrudgingly at times, that what he does is art. 

 

 

Now if only the judges can get their heads out of their derrières. 

[swanbeau]

1 hour ago, cinemacoconut said:

I think its great that there is Zagitova in the ladies to keep figure skating alive in the ladies singles after yuzu retires. 

Off topic: There are a lot of talented junior ladies that will move up senior in the next quad; kihira, kostornaia, trusova, shcherbakova, young you, etc so dont you worry about keeping ladies single skating alive, it very much is 

[GreatLakesGal]

1 hour ago, cinemacoconut said:

I am shocked to hear Nathan wants to go to Med School even though he has at least 5~7 years of prime climax waiting ahead of him. Maybe his life goal is not in figure skating like yuzu is?? 

 

My take on Nathan is that he's one of those skaters for whom skating is not really his passion. He does it because he just happens to be very good at it-- he was genetically blessed with great natural talent for it, much like Gracie Gold. And if I'm right about that, the thought of having to spend the next four years of his life continuing to do it in the hopes of winning that elusive OGM must be very depressing for him. It would be for me.

[WinForPooh]

Thank you to @Xen again and to @fireovertheice as well.  

[Eclair]

14 hours ago, Xen said:

@fireovertheice: Thank you for the video link! Love Max and Angelo's analysis. Now they're making me want to learn Italian just so I won't need to wait for translations. T_T And romance languages are ones I generally have a weird mental block for. If I'm not wrong, they were also gushing a bit about the technique of Boyang's lutz? With all those arrows and stuff.

@Eclair: Thank you for the compliment. =) It was actually a bit harder than I thought initially to translate, and now reading it over again, I think I might have to reword some sections.

 

hmm...I wouldn't be that pessimistic. Actually what Zhao is doing is completely changing the entire system of figure skating in China. I know it seems weird, but the schooling system in China is pretty bad for supporting athletes. Actually it's pretty bad if your focus is not on becoming a scientist or engineer. Essentially, home schooling is not really an option, so many skaters if they want to go pro, essentially drop out of the education system from elementary school onwards. So many professional athletes before end up essentially "flipping burgers at McDonald's" after they retire. Maybe you know already, since you understand Chinese, but for those who don't know, below is probably more a background of the environment that Zhao is working under. Placed the reply under spoiler since it's long.

  Reveal hidden contents

So being able to provide education/school at the same time as allowing training, is a significant undertaking. While China has specialist sports schools, kind of like arts academies, that allow athletes to split time between training and education, those options are not open until much later and after you get on a professional team. What Zhao is speaking about, is making it so that balance can be achieved even if you go to a non-specialist school. And that is significant for a system that is more than happy to throw art, music and physical education classes under the bus so more time can be spent to cram for math, sciences and the standardized tests. I did spend time in the Chinese education system, and starting around 1-2 months before finals, my school schedule pretty much consisted nothing other than math, literature, english, from 9 am till 8 pm, every day, 6 days a week, starting back in 6th grade. I left China before high school, but I do remember sometimes even going to school on sunday if a major national exam was coming up. China is a fiercely competitive society when it comes to education- these days, some kindergartens even interview parents to determine if the children are up to the school's standards before accepting the child. Think of a college application process being started at the preschool level- that's China's landscape.  So for all families, they have to decide whether or not they want to forefeit education for a sport with an unstable future. Many opt not to, so to increase the pool of talent, this is something that has to be done, but something that was never done before-integrating sports and normal education, so families would consider sport a decent option.

 

Also implied in the discussion of artistic sensibilities needing to be trained once they reach nationals team, and the question about the timing/window for training that-that's an attack on the entire system of education in China. Only in the past couple of years have people started focusing on training basic cultural awareness and understanding, but even so, arts classes are easily shoved under the bus when national exams are coming. There was also recently an article in China about how due to us cutting physical education classes, we're physically behind the rest of east asia for physical fitness. So Zhao is taking on a monumental task that most other federations may not need to do. Also, he didn't say just one or 2 dance performances, he said that his team follows the entire normal season of performances for a dance company (and in Beijing, that's definitely one of the large national ones). I would say that with Boyang's SP this season, some skaters are developing their own styles. But as Zhao said, it takes time,  a lot of time that needs to be built up since childhood, something that many skaters under the chinese general education system would lack.

 

As for Lori, I think what they like is that her team can do everything that is needed. So the fed doesn't have to go shop everywhere. But I wouldn't say that they will never leave Lori-besides that is not a declaration you make or even hint at on national TV. Chinese fed essentially wants to focus on building up the skillsets of its own coaches so they are less reliant on foreign coaches or specialists. But they are open to having foreign specialists on even a permanent basis. For example, the ice dance coach is foreign, and the fitness trainer for the national team is also foreign. So there is a possibility that a foreign specialist could even be brought into the Chinese national coaching staff on a permanent basis. So consider instead of Boyang going overseas, what if the Chinese team just manages to convince Misha Ge to join the chinese coaching staff?  And I don't think the door is closed to having athletes train long term overseas- it would be an extreme move, but Chinese fed, if push comes to shove, would consider it if it is the most effective option.

 

As for skating skills-again, what Zhao says is that they make the athletes do everything thoroughly in practice. But it is a process that takes time. And what Shen Xue is doing is standardizing and raising the level of coaches in China in both national training rinks and even commercial rinks. And to a degree, I'm not worried. I skate in China, and hear stuff through the grapevine- something like last year my city/provence sent around 100 or so skaters to take the nationals levels test, and something like less than 10% passed. There were little girls who were capable of doing 2Lz not passing because the judges didn't consider their knee and ankle action textbook enough on crossovers. I've seen that little girl in action before, trust me, in US she can pass in flying colors.

 

As for english, it's part of our national standardized exams and finals starting from elementary school. There are kindergarten schools that conduct 1-2 (or more) classes in english so the chinese students are immensed in english from a young age. Costs a fortune to enroll, but those schools are thriving.

 

Spoiler

 

Oh I totally agree on you about changes to allow athletes to balance both education and sports at the same time. It was actually one of my concerns, when HongBo spoke about wanting to grow a bigger talent pool of skaters (another interview) and I was like, hmm, yeah but not so sure what then happens with the 99% of skaters that don't make it into the national team ...

it sure is a difficult task, as I can understand how pupils in Europe can train and study at the same time when school is only half the day, but Chinese schools go from morning to night, so not that much time left ... maybe high schools and colleges can have figure skating and sports teams too? How does it work in Japan - they seem to be dealing with it pretty well. 

 

Quote

So consider instead of Boyang going overseas, what if the Chinese team just manages to convince Misha Ge to join the chinese coaching staff?  And I don't think the door is closed to having athletes train long term overseas- it would be an extreme move, but Chinese fed, if push comes to shove, would consider it if it is the most effective option.

I just don't like the idea of the whole national team having the same coaching staff - the same dance teacher, the same choreographer, the same music editor, the same physical trainer, the same SS coach, the same technical coach etc. This will only result in getting skaters, that got similar experiences and got similarly teachings. Even if the teachings are very good, it stays the same perspective.. 

Also, they either have to increase their politicking power or otherwise it's still far from having the same value as being trained by one of the more powerful coaches. 

 

Quote

As for english, it's part of our national standardized exams and finals starting from elementary school. There are kindergarten schools that conduct 1-2 (or more) classes in english so the chinese students are immensed in english from a young age. Costs a fortune to enroll, but those schools are thriving.

I sometimes think that Chinese people are too focused on getting their children into college and if they can't make it, it's seen as a failure. Society should be able to provide plenty of jobs that don't require a college degree to succeed in and should pay well for a living (if you do them well). All the craftsmanship jobs for example. Or a lot of office jobs. I don't think people should feel bad about themselves to 'not have made it into a good college', if they do well at their respective fields. E.g. nurses don't need to go to college here and still do their jobs well. A lot of 'masters' in Japan didn't go to college either and are still the best in their field. But that's totally off-topic now ^^

 

 

[fireovertheice]

On 28/2/2018 at 12:59 PM, yuzupon said:

Remember when Zu's said that artistry can only shine when you have correct techniques? That he strives for the 'technical omnipotence' as the Italian commentators call it, is why, even if Zu's aesthetics do not appeal to all people, there's a relatively common understanding and acknowledgement, however begrudgingly at times, that what he does is art.

 

@yuzupon I agree with you (and Yuzu ). That's way in my signature I wrote a sentence taken from a commentary of Dolfini of some times ago when he said that the tecnical movements or elements of Yuzuru are just poetry. In Italian it sounds beautifully and I don't know if English can properly reflect the meaning and the nuances the remark has in the original language.

 

I cross post also here the few sentecences I wrote in the general chat about the second part of the commentary.

If nobody will translate the other part of this interesting commentary, focused on the steps and coreographic movements before the solo jump in the SP, in the next days I can also do that.

In the meantime and very briefly here: in this second part they say that while Yuzu has a "continuum" of coreographic movements and steps, with also and difficult entry and exit in the for the 4S, stressing the actual flow between TR and the element, others have steps but easier - Javi - and/or not so close to the jump - Shoma, with a sort of interruption before the element. Paradoxically Shoma has a more difficult entry to the combo.

So the conclusion for them is the same: "Hanyu is not rewarded enough for what he actually does on the ice" in comparison to the others, and very probably the introduction of the new system of scoring with a wider range of GOE is to reward the quality of skaters like him.

At the end they make some general statements about the result of SP and what to possibly expect for the FS and the attribution of the medals.

 

I have to say that the remarks they do about the steps etc.., before the solo jump in the SP go in the same direction of some of the videos about this argument released before Oly, such these:

 

[yuzupon]

@fireovertheice I had signatures turned off cz of data. So I didn't see it! It's not as poetic in English as in Italian. I mean, of what little I know about Italian (and English), that is. 'Connaturato' I think has a more nuanced meaning that I can't really think of an English word that would have the same connotation. Not to mention how well it goes with 'naturale' just as a play on words. 

And  for further summarizing the video!

 

Although, whenever experts confirm my suspicion that Zu is underscored, I (1) have this urge to go find ISU and judges to give them  (2) wish I could go back to the days when I was largely ignorant towards the rules

[Xen]

2 minutes ago, fireovertheice said:

 

@yuzupon I agree with you (and Yuzu ). That's way in my signature I wrote a sentence taken from a commentary of Dolfini of some times ago when he said tha the tecnical movements or elements of Yuzuru are just poetry. In Italian it sounds beautifully and I don't know if English can properly reflect the meaning and the nuances the remark has in the original language.

 

I cross post also here the few sentecences I wrote in the general chat about the second part of the commentary.

If nobody will translate the other part of this interesting commentary, focused on the steps and coreographic movements before the solo jump in the SP, in the next days I can also do that.

In the meantime and very briefly here: in this second part they say that while Yuzu has a "continuum" of coreographic movements and steps, with also and difficult entry and exit in the for the 4S, stressing the actual flow between TR and the element, others have steps but easier - Javi - and/or not so close to the jump - Shoma, with a sort of interruption before the element. Paradoxically Shoma has a more difficult entry to the combo.

So the conclusion for them is the same: "Hanyu is not rewarded enough for what he actually does on the ice" in comparison to the others, and very probably the introduction of the new system of scoring with a wider range of GOE is to reward the quality of skaters like him.

At the end they make some general statements about the result of SP and what to possibly expect for the FS and the attribution of the medals.

 

I have to say that the remarks they do about the steps etc.., before the solo jump in the SP go in the same direction of some of the videos about this argument released before Oly, such these:

 

Just a quick note if people are not familiar with figure skating.

For some jumps, such as salchows, there are several entry methods. First is the common 3 turn entry, the second one commonly learned is a right backwards 3-turn to mohawk to jump entry. For flips there is also an entry method that utilizes a mohawk to go to the right back inside edge. Especially in the case of salchows, the back 3 turn to mohawk to jump method, it seems people sometimes could confuse it with steps. However, especially for salchows with higher number of rotations, the back 3->mohawk entry is used more often in the men's.

 

@fireovertheice: I'm guessing under ISU those steps for those 2 specific entry methods should not count as steps preceeding a jump, especially in the case of a salchow?

[ICeleste]

Wow... Javi is   about his bronze

Until 0:36 he explained to casual fans why falling on a difficult jump might give you more points than executing a jump with lower BV perfectly (his tone makes it seem like he disagrees with this). He also says that doing a clean program will get you higher PCs

 

Then the interviewer asked if he thinks he deserved Silver...

Javi answered (sounding pissed): "All of Shoma's elements, especially the jumps, weren't well-.... The landings of the jumps- he lacked speed, he overrotated/stepped out ? and that should be penalized with -GOEs but the judges gave him +GOEs. He skated well, I can't deny that, he had a fall and well, I had a mistake too, so we're equal there. His other jumps should've had deductions though... Anyway, I'm happy with my medal."

 

[Forcefield]

16 minutes ago, GoldMedalist said:

 

Why not?  They can, I think Satoko is a good example   Shoma is not that new "fresh" face anymore, judges are way more impressed with Nathan these days,

 

Bringing speculation and other skaters not Yuzu related to this thread.

 

Hey, gotta say I'm a big hypocrite. I want fair judging across the board, but if one fed is pushing hard I'd want another fed to push as hard. Candies in PCS can be offset by candies in GOEs. (And then there's the stepchild Boyangman.)

 

I also don't think Shoma will be left far behind Nathan. Not only is Shoma loved by the judges (hey, he even got more PCS than Patrick in Canada), they need a rivalry. You see Alina's quick rise for a reason. Yuzu was a powerhouse, but he lost skates and world titles to Javi and Patrick when he faltered and so the judges didn't have to work so hard, so I predict that the judges will keep Shoma and sometimes Boyang in the game until someone else comes along.

 

Also, Satoko has low PCS compared to the other big ladies skaters and was probably never a favorite for gold in the long run.

[Forcefield]

24 minutes ago, ICeleste said:

Wow... Javi is   about his bronze

Until 0:36 he explained to casual fans why falling on a difficult jump might give you more points than executing a jump with lower BV perfectly (his tone makes it seem like he disagrees with this). He also says that doing a clean program will get you higher PCs

 

Then the interviewer asked if he thinks he deserved Silver...

Javi answered (sounding pissed): "All of Shoma's elements, especially the jumps, weren't well-.... The landings of the jumps- he lacked speed, he overrotated/stepped out ? and that should be penalized with -GOEs but the judges gave him +GOEs. He skated well, I can't deny that, he had a fall and well, I had a mistake too, so we're equal there. His other jumps should've had deductions though... Anyway, I'm happy with my medal."

 

 

Wow Javi. I like how straightforward but gracious he is. I don't want to cry salty tears over Javi (I already do enough for Yuzu) but it does make me sad.

 

I know he took a jab at the scoring, but most importantly he made a good point and one thing I will always be glad is how Yuzu and Javi are both under TCC and will take and uphold the philosophy of quality skating with them even when they leave.

[xeyra]

Javi: I'm happy about my bronze medal!

Also Javi: Will continue to talk about how Shoma was a bit overscored and he might have gotten silver otherwise.

To be fair to him, Spanish media keeps bringing it up.

 

Thing is, Javi actually had the highest GOEs of the FS (17.41 to Yuzu's 16.99 and Shoma's 7.87; Nathan had 12.53) but his BV was almost 20 points below Shoma's because of the pop. So that made a big difference.