3 minutes ago, sublimeskating said:

 

tracy's actually a pretty decent commentator

her comments are quite reasonable 

I've always liked her comments ! I remember her commenting Yuzu's LP at Nice, his first WC medal! She was great!  So impressed by Yuzu and praising him a lot! 

1 hour ago, Katt said:

In term of overall jump technique, he's only behind Yuzu. Doing 4F or 4lz doesn't automatically make you a good jumper.

Exactly. Shoma and Vincent Zhou's fake quads don't make them better jumpers. Except maybe 3A 

 

I can understand why he's discouraged, because the judges are turning a blind eye to bad technique and lack of choreography.

Lmao Shoma...

 

1 minute ago, katonice said:

Lmao Shoma...

 

And that, kids, is why you should always eat your veggies 

51 minutes ago, beki said:

Exactly. Shoma and Vincent Zhou's fake quads don't make them better jumpers. Except maybe 3A 

 

I can understand why he's discouraged, because the judges are turning a blind eye to bad technique and lack of choreography.

 

One could call this harsh, but I think it is spot on. I doubt anybody is complaining and complaining and complaining about pre-rotation and bad toe pick technique and under-rotation just for the joy of it or because the words sound so cool. It's how these problems and the judges & technical panels completely ignoring them influences and severely disadvantages the other skaters, to the point where it is just unfair. I bet Patrick could do a 4F the way Shoma/Vincent are doing theirs. Or look at Mikhail Kolyada, struggling so hard to land his 4Lz. Would he start using the whole blade instead of just the toe pick of the right foot, turning more on the ground before taking off - he might not have the problems he does. Because those are going off axis in the air and not being able to control the force of the landing. Pre-rotate more, have more time with an 'anchor' on the ground in which you can stabilize yourself and won't go off axis. Be able to reduce the height this way, which will mean less impact you have to control on the landing. Ta da, easier to land your quad. But because he doesn't, because he sticks to doing it the way proper jumping technique school and ISU rules say he should, he has it harder, he's disadvantaged. And he's not going to get anything more out of it if he manages to land the harder jump, because the 'cheated' way gets all the GOE anyway as well.

 

And then sometimes people call it being disrespectful towards the 'cheating' skaters (sorry, but yes, it is the official ISU term for it) when their flaws are being brought up - but how is not bringing them up not unfair towards the other skaters? Look at Patrick here, I'm not sitting in his head and can only go by what I think his words mean - but it sounds to me like he can't find his motivation anymore because he can't keep up with all the quads being done. But were those quads judged fairly, a lot of them weren't quads, and Patrick wouldn't find himself in this position in the first place. Are those skaters who are still sticking to text book jumps just 'dumb' for not seeing things and making it easier for themselves? Do some people think it's their own fault?

 

And to make myself sound even more bitter - to be honest when I see people celebrating Shomas or Vincents scores (or that of other skaters with similar flaws), it stings. Because if Patrick Chan now looks through a 'seasons best' list, he sees all these 300+ scores that are higher then even his personal best - but those shouldn't be there. Shomas 4T and 4Lo are fine, but the 4F is faulty right from his basic technique, he hasn't landed one, ever, that shouldn't have gotten a <<. It's quite questionable he would have ever scored 300+ had those calls been made. Even the famed consistency people love to point out about Shoma, his technique partly enables him to that as well. Pre-rotate, slam your full blade on the ice - less possibility to go off axis, less height necessary, less impact to control on the landing. All things that make it easier to consistently land a jump. Of course he is also a great competitor, but others might be great competitors as well and still not get that consistency with their jumps - because they still have it harder to land theirs. That includes Chan. Or Boyang, who is a quadster, and even consistent with a jump like his no-PR 4Lz (amazing, btw!), but is consistently called out for all his flaws in GOE/PCS scoring. And I honestly don't get it. I like Wakaba more then 99,99999% of things in this world, to potentially unhealthy extents, but geez is the TPs turning a blind eye to her technical problems this season making me desperate and angry. Because she has really bad problems with her 3-3's so far, none of them in competition were rotated. They're barely called out, but that doesn't magically make them rotated. And it is unfair towards the other skaters, it is unfair towards her. Then there's the flip to, ranging from 3F! to basically a 3Lz. I admit I cannot understand how people can think these things are fine, even if it is their own favorites. Because it is making a mockery out of what is a beautiful sport, and it leads to absolutely nothing good.

 

And to point that out again: I do not mean to say that Shoma, Vincent or Wakaba are making a mockery out of Figure Skating - they are hard working  athletes who love this sport. But the ISU sure is.

36 minutes ago, Joey said:

whole post

6 hours ago, ralucutzagy said:

 

Okay ... Jason, you need some new pants, man, those one are a big no-no, Shoma looks 12 yo in this photo, and Samarin, that costume is an atrocity ... burn it ASAP!

Looking close at this photo, I think Samarin's costume finds itself so ugly that it's trying to burn itself too...lol

 

And besides getting Gold for SC, I think Shoma deserves a gold for costume too! Guys, please learn to have nicer costumes....

 

1 hour ago, axelnojutsu said:

And that, kids, is why you should always eat your veggies 

 

Someone should have given Shoma a huge broccoli instead of a huge chicken drumstick. 

 

47 minutes ago, Joey said:

 

One could call this harsh, but I think it is spot on. I doubt anybody is complaining and complaining and complaining about pre-rotation and bad toe pick technique and under-rotation just for the joy of it or because the words sound so cool. It's how these problems and the judges & technical panels completely ignoring them influences and severely disadvantages the other skaters, to the point where it is just unfair. I bet Patrick could do a 4F the way Shoma/Vincent are doing theirs. Or look at Mikhail Kolyada, struggling so hard to land his 4Lz. Would he start using the whole blade instead of just the toe pick of the right foot, turning more on the ground before taking off - he might not have the problems he does. Because those are going off axis in the air and not being able to control the force of the landing. Pre-rotate more, have more time with an 'anchor' on the ground in which you can stabilize yourself and won't go off axis. Be able to reduce the height this way, which will mean less impact you have to control on the landing. Ta da, easier to land your quad. But because he doesn't, because he sticks to doing it the way proper jumping technique school and ISU rules say he should, he has it harder, he's disadvantaged. And he's not going to get anything more out of it if he manages to land the harder jump, because the 'cheated' way gets all the GOE anyway as well.

 

And then sometimes people call it being disrespectful towards the 'cheating' skaters (sorry, but yes, it is the official ISU term for it) when their flaws are being brought up - but how is not bringing them up not unfair towards the other skaters? Look at Patrick here, I'm not sitting in his head and can only go by what I think his words mean - but it sounds to me like he can't find his motivation anymore because he can't keep up with all the quads being done. But were those quads judged fairly, a lot of them weren't quads, and Patrick wouldn't find himself in this position in the first place. Are those skaters who are still sticking to text book jumps just 'dumb' for not seeing things and making it easier for themselves? Do some people think it's their own fault?

 

And to make myself sound even more bitter - to be honest when I see people celebrating Shomas or Vincents scores (or that of other skaters with similar flaws), it stings. Because if Patrick Chan now looks through a 'seasons best' list, he sees all these 300+ scores that are higher then even his personal best - but those shouldn't be there. Shomas 4T and 4Lo are fine, but the 4F is faulty right from his basic technique, he hasn't landed one, ever, that shouldn't have gotten a <<. It's quite questionable he would have ever scored 300+ had those calls been made. Even the famed consistency people love to point out about Shoma, his technique partly enables him to that as well. Pre-rotate, slam your full blade on the ice - less possibility to go off axis, less height necessary, less impact to control on the landing. All things that make it easier to consistently land a jump. Of course he is also a great competitor, but others might be great competitors as well and still not get that consistency with their jumps - because they still have it harder to land theirs. That includes Chan. Or Boyang, who is a quadster, and even consistent with a jump like his no-PR 4Lz (amazing, btw!), but is consistently called out for all his flaws in GOE/PCS scoring. And I honestly don't get it. I like Wakaba more then 99,99999% of things in this world, to potentially unhealthy extents, but geez is the TPs turning a blind eye to her technical problems this season making me desperate and angry. Because she has really bad problems with her 3-3's so far, none of them in competition were rotated. They're barely called out, but that doesn't magically make them rotated. And it is unfair towards the other skaters, it is unfair towards her. Then there's the flip to, ranging from 3F! to basically a 3Lz. I admit I cannot understand how people can think these things are fine, even if it is their own favorites. Because it is making a mockery out of what is a beautiful sport, and it leads to absolutely nothing good.

 

And to point that out again: I do not mean to say that Shoma, Vincent or Wakaba are making a mockery out of Figure Skating - they are hard working  athletes who love this sport. But the ISU sure is.

 

 

It's really sad to see great skaters like Patrick so demoralized because of the poor judging from ISU.  I find it so sad for Patrick...He's been under so much pressure for so long...

 

He must have felt really disappointed to get silver in Sochi because he couldn't break the Canadian silver curse...Then he took a year off because he needed that break. In just that year, he went from someone whom others are chasing to someone doing the chasing...And he's not catching up..

 

I hope Patrick will continue to skate even after he retires...I find it so sad when I see skaters lose motivation to be on ice, even after retirement. I'm sure most of the skaters love the sport and that is why they came so far...but it'll be sad if all the years of struggles and stresses lead to a mental block that kills their joy for skating...

Well Skate Canada was not as good as Rostelecom Cup. Heck the judges are just going to town on the PCS. Who would have thought Patrick Chan in Canada not winning or even making the podium! And Jason Brown getting silver I mean I'm happy for him but I never saw that coming. Shoma I don't hate him I just can't get into the skating his and his jumping technique just bugs the heck out of me. However, Shoma did win best costumes in the men's. Shoma nearly getting 200 points in the free skate for the free skate that he put out the judges are really really on there Shoma chosen one train. And his combined total was over 300 now I just can't. If things keep up with Shoma's scores and Medvedeva's scores the judging is going to become a joke.

I have looked only today at the performaces of Shoma, Patrick and Jason and to me few things are very clear:

 

- That of Shoma in FS to me was to count as a fall

 

- That what Tracy said - and also some others have already observed - about the good movements of Shoma's torso and arms in contrast to a simpler footwork, rich in crossover and two-footed skating is true, and more blatant in the FS, of course

 

- I do not think that Shoma would have those PCS, especially in comparison to those of Patrick and Jason, at least for Skating Skills, Transitons, Composition. I would say that Jason is way better of Shoma and, for this competition, of Patrick too, in Interpretation of the music.

 

- And the latter point maybe is also for me the reason why the skating of Shoma, also when well done, doesn't touch me, and more with this year programmes.

I do think that Shoma doesn't feel particularly those pieces of music. Someone maybe gave him a generic explanation of the sense that they must have and of the coreographic movements he has to do, but I do not have the impression of any kind of understanding, or participation, in skating them.

I do not know if this come of my knowledge and experience of them as Italian or what else, but really I do not 'buy' - and I do not like - his intepretation of Vivaldi as well as Puccini music. More: if you look at the upper part of his body and face, at some points the intepretation of the two programs/pieces of music look almost the same...of Vivaldi's "Inverno" and Puccini's "Turandot"...?

 

So sorry, because I liked very much Shoma and his programmes in back 2015, especially his SP. I hope he will be better in this compartment in next competitions and that this kind of interpretation will not be rewarded in the OGM.

Because if not, I have to say I will enjoy way better the kind of performance that Jason could give than his: sad for FS, that conquered me as a discipline in which athleticism, techinque and artistry have to be all present.

 

P.S. I agree about the beauty of Shoma costumes, though: both stunning.

 

I enjoyed shoma’s debut year. Even his turandot v1.0... but since he wasn’t penalised for his technique, he continued doing these PR jumps and now I don’t feel for his programs. Shame on you judges for pre-maturely let shoma shine before he could improve on other aspects of his skating. Then I would have continued enjoying his skating more! 

Ok I'm half joking here..beating Patrick in Skate Canada is cursed anyway. Pre-Shoci only Javi who capable beat Patrick in Canada and He endep up off podium in Olympic 

What's going on with Daddy Mura? Saw he did poorly here. Don't know what will happen with that third Japanese spot. Daisuke Murakami?

9 hours ago, ymy said:

I enjoyed shoma’s debut year. Even his turandot v1.0... but since he wasn’t penalised for his technique, he continued doing these PR jumps and now I don’t feel for his programs. Shame on you judges for pre-maturely let shoma shine before he could improve on other aspects of his skating. Then I would have continued enjoying his skating more! 

If only Shoma had gone through what Yuzu did (the flip calls and the not on the spot elevation of PCs) he could've been a better skater now. But on the other hand if you really want to be the best you will strive to get everything done with the highest quality possible. He should've started doing that a long time ago. But seeing him, I don't think he will do something about it now, with this season being the Olympic season and all.

1 hour ago, beki said:

What's going on with Daddy Mura? Saw he did poorly here. Don't know what will happen with that third Japanese spot. Daisuke Murakami?

 

mura had the same problems at u.s classic last month too, pops everywhere. daisuke had a decent showing at sectionals this weekend scoring ~230, but he's still coming back from injury. keiji is still in the conversation, but it depends on him and the state of his injury too. currently the highest scoring man behind yuzuru and shoma this season internationally is kazuki tomono, who turned senior this year and came fifth at u.s classic with ~225 points. 

46 minutes ago, golden said:

 

mura had the same problems at u.s classic last month too, pops everywhere. daisuke had a decent showing at sectionals this weekend scoring ~230, but he's still coming back from injury. keiji is still in the conversation, but it depends on him and the state of his injury too. currently the highest scoring man behind yuzuru and shoma this season internationally is kazuki tomono, who turned senior this year and came fifth at u.s classic with ~225 points. 

the state of JPN men's skating is just disheartening. If you think how many top skaters they had before Sochi... Now it's a two-men show (though in truth there are only a few in the world that can keep up with the quad race, so it's already surprising Jpn has two horses in the race...questionable scoring aside). In the meanwhile the ladies...