Old Cat Lady

Maxim Belyavsky Max Aaron Artur Dmitriev Jr There's 2 different attempts on this video

I was wondering about that myself though at this point, not sure how much more people have to say on the matter. @sallycinnamon @Hydroblade @robin @yuzuangel sorry to let it get this far, but if you want to move posts I created a new thread (not that it's necessary. I'm sure people can just copy and paste). First post on the subject is on page 4805

To continue discussion from the general Yuzuru chat

I'm just talking based on what I've seen as a whole personally, which, of course, is all English speaking and mostly NA and whatever gets translated (a few Russian and Japanese articles) so maybe a small sample? I see other names get thrown around on forums too, but not in large volumes.

That particular paragraph was to point out the contradictions in including/excluding some over others. Almost no one points to Grafstrom or Salchow, with 10 world titles, in the GOAT debate. Grafstrom checks off the same boxes as Button. They both introduced technical aspects to the sport, were dominant in their time, and won the most important titles multiple times. Same with Salchow - though he only won the Olympics once. The point of my entire post is that, from a sporting perspective, there are several commonalities in popular GOAT candidates, most of which translate throughout most sports It's strange that, that's the attitude in a sport where females tend to be the popular face, at least until fairly recently. In tennis and gymnastics, I think there is a lot of GOAT debates. Don't know much about other sports but I imagine with a lot of other sports there's less talk just because women in the sport don't have as much tradition as the men? I'm not talking about personal favorites, of which, then there would be a huge list of candidates. But about people who are widely mentioned in these categories. I personally think Yagudin is greater than Plushenko for the reasons I mentioned above. They both check off all the boxes for me but, personally, I think Yagudin edges out Plushenko because Yagudin was a more complete skater with more consistently memorable programs. However, when the GOAT conversation comes up in English speaking media, it's consistently Button, Plushenko, and Hanyu for the men. I think they get chosen for the reasons I mentioned above. Once again, when I say "longevity", I mean consistently at the top of the sport, not who's been in the sport the longest. Then it's a question of how long is long enough? Does being in the top 3 for 10 years matter more than dominating for 4? How do you weigh those who were great for a year or two then left versus those who were competitive for a couple cycles?

I've always thought it was strange that he was always completely ignored on the GOAT list, even with the recency bias. Obviously he didn't have that much competition in his day, but Button had a lot less competition in his day than this era and that doesn't stop him from being in the conversation. Personally don't think Plushenko should be in the conversation, but even with him, I've seen fans argue that he only won as much as he did because of weak competition but at least he was skating against a full field. Button won his titles in the aftermath of WWII - I don't know what got you out of serving but I have to think that the skating field was depleted from destroyed infrastructure even if a skater could get out of serving. I think another thing that's interesting about the GOAT debate is who gets left off the list. I've never heard anyone argue for Katarina Witt even though she has 2 Oly golds. Some people still mention Sonja Henie but not a lot. Yuna Kim gets mentioned often in spite of fewer world and Olympic titles . Even Michelle Kwan gets mentioned somewhat often, not as much now but in her day (though probably primarily by NA fans). I can't think of any others that have been candidates for female GOAT. On the male side, Alexei Yagudin is never considered in spite of being dominant in his day, having won more world titles than Plushenko, and I think most people consider him to be a more complete skater. I've seen a lot of people point to Yagudin's Winter as being one of the iconic programs so he also had memorable performances. So when you consider the qualities of a GOAT, from a purely sporting point of view, I think there are a few qualities that a skater must have 1. Excellence - Being superior in your craft. What did you do that was memorable? 2. Longevity - showing that you can do it time after time for a longer period. Frankly, I sometimes question the importance of this, but it seems to be important in the public's eye. 3. Dominance - How thoroughly you defeat the field. This is another one that I question because, as stated above, a lot of this is just dependent on your level of competition. 4. Impact - I remember Dick Button quoting someone when talking about, I think, Michelle Kwan. He said something about the sport being better when you left - it was much more eloquent than that but the gist of it is that the sport was elevated because you existed in it. I think for skating fans, this might be the biggest factor when considering GOAT status. How many people were inspired? Who changed the sport the most? eta: 5. Rising to the big moments - It's essential to win when it matters most. I don't care if you win every other title out there 10 times, if you can't do it at the competitions that are the pinnacle of your sport, you're not in the conversation. This is universal throughout all individual sports and to some extent, team sports (less so because 1 person can only do so much when you're competing against several people). I remember bickering about this on GS and I had more in the list but that's all I can think of for now.

I voted but I don't feel strongly either way. If someone does, they should speak up. I don't know the logistics of donating internationally but if it's easier and means more money goes to the charity because of fees, then I'm happy to just donate to whichever one you choose.

https://ici.radio-canada.ca/sports/podium/107/guillaume-cizeron-gabriella-papadakis-patinage-artistique-danse-jeux-olympiques-pyeongchang-tessa-virtue-scott-moir-medaille-robe Interesting interview with Papadakis/Cizeron

https://www.rt.com/sport/457410-elena-ilinykh-retirement-rumors/amp/ Such a shame that they broke up. They were so good when they were so young. I like them more than either of the top Russian teams now. It's hard not to think "what if".

Funny, I've been thinking about the goat debate as well as famous people who were fans of Yuzu and was about to start threads on it. Third time something like this has happened this month. Don't have time to contribute much to the discussion now Just popped in because this came up on my Google news feed. https://www.factmag.com/2019/04/24/kelly-moran-origin/ Never heard of Kelly Moran but I assume she's at least somewhat famous. I've also been looking for that Boris Becker retweet of Yuzu's Laureus message. Probably an indication of being a fan unless he did that for all the Laureus stuff.

Tbh, I giggled a little at those gifs. Part of me thinks, "this must be sarcastic. how can this person possibly think this is good?" but then I realized that these are actually the best examples of Nathan's spread eagles . I personally find the "balletic" spread eagles funnier - essentially just simple 2 foot turns done the exact same way no matter what the music. I'd really like to see Nathan try to emulate even the worst of the other examples. I still like them when used to create a moment but men's skating seems to be saturated by mediocre ones used as program filler so skaters can pretend they're artistic.

8 Years! Is it some sort of advanced subject or just because he's part time?

It's not hard to see who most benefits from eliminating steps before jump requirement. Though I suppose judges almost never followed that rule anyway so I guess it made no real difference in practice. I think the only time I've ever seen judges deduct for it is in Yuzu's COC(?) performance of Etude eta: counter argument to myself. But perhaps the possibility of a deduction was enough to discourage skaters from doing jumps that are more difficult from steps. Maybe it's the difference between attempting a 4lz vs a 4t from steps. It gives a lot more strategic flexibility. eta 2: counter to my counter. But it never stopped them in the past, so I guess not. As long as the judges didn't punish for the lack of steps, the skater never fixed it.

I was just about to watch. Thanks for the heads up. I'm to the point that I'm often annoyed when I see Yuzu get mentioned or his picture posted. It just feels like they're using him for self promotion, especially when they don't have anything new or nice to say about him.

Just came across these tweets by Chibura on spread eagles http://shoma-uno.tumblr.com/tags

1 min in, there's a sbs of Yuzu and Plush spinning. 9 yo Yuzu already had better sit spins

He was talking about the ordinals and how since Plush was 4th in the SP, Yagudin could afford to be 2nd in the FS. At first he was just saying that he was conceding the LP to Plush. But then Yagudin watered down his program some more and Scott started going on about how he can't concede the long program to Goebel or he could lose. Scott definitely thought Yagudin might lose the LP to Goebel. But he was talking about their style, not being cautious vs assertive or whatever a better word for it is. Both pairs skated with "attack". Not sure about this one, but I also think he completely ignored the mistakes made by G&G and their lower jump tech. The seeming implication was that G&G were perfect and if M&D won, it was because the judges just liked them better.

Rewatching 2002 Olympics. Anyone remember when Scott Hamilton screeched during Yagudin's LP "He's conceding the long program to Goebel". Yagudin was a unanimous 1st in the free skate and Goebel's ordinals ranged from 3rd to 5th Scott Hamilton during 1994 Olympics about G&G vs. M&D "It's passion vs. perfection" after G&G made 3? mistakes. Also, passion isn't part of any of the scores Joe Inman in his TSL interview: [About Hanyu] 10:45 I never get the feeling that he understands what he’s skating to. 15:08 If you don’t have music that has a lot of variety, how can you interpret the music?[so he penalizes if he doesn't like your music]... not truly understanding what he’s skating to. 18:25 A +5 is perfection for me. I don’t know what they’re saying a +5 is… there is a must, where if you don’t have the 3 things or, whatever, 4 … basically, if you look at what we did at the very beginning, the take-off, rotation, the something else, I can’t remember, and the landing, and if you look at those, that’s what they’re talking about must be achieved and from there you go up. [yup. the expert judge doesn't even know what the core bullets are] 19:35 I never give a +3 on a sit spin because of the positions… to me, when they go to those turtle things, the aesthetic is lost [he automatically holds back marks for doing a sit spin] 28:03 B: where then, are you penalizing for that poor posture? Is that skating skills or performance? I: I do it in both… even though it says carriage in skating skills… even though it was pounded that you’re not supposed to say posture… [so he outright says that he ignores what he's told he's supposed to do. he goes on to explain the difference between posture and carriage so it isn't just a semantics issue. Also, carriage is listed in performance, not skating skills] 30:54 (Kolyada) I don’t see enough variety of interesting movements, especially this Carmen 34:13 talk about good posture and carriage… was Brezina… I liked personally that better in my marking was .5 higher in everything except skating skills to Koldaya [Kolyada], the Russian boy. 40:40 L: How about Vincent’s components. To me, they were really inflated… I: I think he’s better than what everybody’s saying… I think he’s just as good to me, maybe not carriage wise, as the Russian Carmen [Kolyada ] 57:10 I: Fans have bias, prejudices, and their favorites [explaining the difference between fans and judges] and Hanu [What he calls Hanyu the whole interview] is a favorite of a lot of people 1:10 I gave [Kolyada] a 7.5 58:15 I don’t know if he’s taking a full load [Jonathon’s eyes widen - talking about Nathan at Yale] He also goes on and on and on about how he marks down on everything for poor phrasing. Phrasing is specifically listed in the Composition mark

I think you're right about the thighs being the biggest problem. I don't think even women's clothing would work since his hips are too narrow compared to his thighs for women's clothing. For men's, his waist is too small compared to his hips. Wearing his pants lower means a big ol baggy crotch. I think rockstaryuzuru is right. Only thing he can do is wear sweats/Hakamas everywhere or get a personal tailor.

Lol, between your discriminating taste and my over enthusiasm, we might get a respectable list. For most years at this point either I didn't see the whole season or it's so long ago that I'm having trouble remembering. It was a loooong lapse and I have a terrible memory. 2014 Hanyu Olympic SP Ilinykh/Katsalapov Olympic FD Chan GP France LP Kim Olympic LP Kim Olympic SP Volosozhar/Trankov Olympic SP Volosozhar/Trankov Skate America LP Stolbova/Klimov Olympic LP Mao Asada Olympic LP Julia Lipnitskaya Olympic Team LP Just an FYI, it looks like 2006 Olympics haven't been affected by the Youtube purge yet.

He could use it in the choreo sequence but it won't really gain him any points. If judges actually followed the guidelines, it should up his transition score since they're more difficult than simple turns/crossovers while waving your arms around or, depending where they are, his GOE's but realistically, he'd just make his program more difficult while getting no credit.

Lol. I didn't see that. Every time I've seen him in jeans I thought they looked weird as well. I imagine he's too stubborn to go to women's clothing but I think that's the only way he'll find anything off the rack that has a shot at fitting him.

This is harder than I thought. I was thinking that 10 might be a bit excessive but I tried it for 2017/18 season, when I didn't even see every competition and gala and the 2018/19 season and I'm already finding myself cheating. 2019 Miyahara Skate America LP Hanyu Rostelecom SP Sui/Han Worlds LP Papadakis/Cizeron WTT Free dance Hanyu Worlds LP Uno 4cc LP Kolyada Worlds LP James/Cipres WTT LP Tuktamysheva WTT LP Hanyu Worlds Gala Kihira NHK LP Nobu Oda Japan Open 2018 Savchenko/Massot Worlds LP Tarasova/Morozov Olympics SP Hanyu Olympics SP Medvedeva Olympics LP Medvedeva Olympics SP Zagitova Europeans LP Sui/Han Olympics SP Papadakis/Cizeron Worlds FD Shoma Uno Olympics SP Dmitri Aliev Olympics SP Wakaba Higuchi Worlds LP Mikhail Kolyada Worlds SP I'm inclined to cut Tuk and Nobu from the 2019 list because I know that there are quality issues in those programs, but I like them because they're so different than the rest. In 2018, I already cut Zagitova's SP even though I like it more than her LP. I thought the LP was relevant just because it was one of the biggest stories and it was a remarkable technical achievement. I didn't include Yuzu's LP because I'm going to have it on the 2015/16 season. I love the way Aliev moves and lands his jumps but I love the purity of Kolyada's technique. Already made made some major cuts and I'm still over eta: Just realized I don't have Notte Stellatta and Carolina's sp from worlds on here either. I know NS can be grabbed for the 2017 season but I thought the performance at the Olympics was especially touching. I think one of Med's programs, Aliev, and Kolyada are probably the most likely to be cut. Maybe Shoma's SP but I hate leaving him out completely. eta 2: I feel like Trusova's Junior worlds LP should be on the 2018 list as well. Maybe I should give up on this top 10 limit

It's officially off season. It's a good time to catch up on those years I missed and reminisce about those great performances. What are your top 10 performances from each year? You can pick across all disciplines and segments, including galas. If people are interested, maybe we can compile a list for a streaming party.

I'm concerned by this wording. you think he means he's never been able to land it cleanly? I thought he said that he did, but only like 5% of the time or something.