Old Cat Lady

When do you think you'll be making the donation? I just ask because I won't get my new job until June. I picked the ice rink because Yuzu is so personally involved in that charity though either is fine. To me, the most important thing is a note making it clear that this donation is inspired by Yuzu.

When I said that Yuzu and Boyang had a lot of similar features, I was referring to the cursory explanation for why he was considered attractive in China that I got from the WTT thread (height, slender, skin). They're almost the same height, they both have really fair skin, and they're both almost the same weight. I personally find Yuzu more attractive but like I said there, I'm never completely sure if I'm letting myself get carried away with my fangurling. I was under the impression that teeth wasn't as big a thing outside the US. However, to answer your question from personal experience, my brothers and I were adopted from S. Korea and grew up in S. Minnesota in an area that is mostly of Norwegian or German heritage and currently live in the Suburbs. This may be different in more metro areas where there are denser Asian communities, but it's very common for me to be mistaken for another Asian who looks nothing like me (at my old job, we even worked in different stores and customers would often ask both of us - "don't you work in that other store?" - she's at least 50 lbs heavier than I am, is significantly taller, has much darker skin, has a different shape face, etc. - literally nothing alike but the color of the hair) and no one bats an eye if someone were to say that "all Asians look alike". One time a manager even said that to me at one of my jobs! In spite of being Asian ourselves, my brothers and I can't tell the difference between Korean, Japanese, Chinese, etc. But to be fair on this point, even most Asian immigrants tend to guess wrong - they tend to guess that I'm whatever they are Yes, I'm interested by beauty standards in different countries, especially Asian countries. In part because in my school my brothers and I were considered "ugly", often being called "flat face" or "chink" (slur for Chinese - where I grew up, "Chink" and "Gook" were used interchangeably since all Asians were the same). It was a bizarre experience the first time I went to a business that was all Asian immigrants - I was surrounded by a few women and they fawned over me. Now that I understand more about Asian beauty standards, I get it more - I'm literally the palest Asian I know, which is funny because when I was growing up I often complained that I didn't get the "natural tan" that other minorities get but wasn't willing to damage my skin by tanning. Sorry for the tangent above, but the primary reason I was interested in this particular instance, is because I'm utterly fascinated by Yuzu's popularity in China when China has their own skating stars. In the US, I can't think of any foreign athlete being promoted above our own. There are a few instances of foreign athletes gaining fame because of physical beauty and/or a sentimental story, but no matter how beautiful/intelligent/noble/etc., they would never get to the point of surpassing our own stars if we have any in that sport. Had they skated in the same era, Yuna Kim would never become more popular than Michelle Kwan in spite of Kim's exceptional physical beauty, and the likelihood is that we'd be finding all sorts of excuses for why Kim's skating was terrible - N.A. fans even try to argue that Yuzu isn't the most famous active skater. It seems like the Chinese are as much or even more crazed for Yuzu than Japan. I thought there was political tension between JPN and China as well so that's why I'm curious as to why he's so popular in China but not S. Korea and I thought maybe it was, in part, because he's not considered as attractive in S. Korea but that doesn't seem to be the case. I was curious about how his popularity compared to Kim's in China because of the whole "hope of Asia" thing, since they're both wildly successful Asians. I think it's also interesting that they embraced Yuzu over ethnically Chinese skaters - why Yuzu but not Patrick Chan or Michelle Kwan who are both very successful and ethnically Chinese - is the lack of Olympic gold? they're regarded as N. American first and Asian second? But Michael Chang was popular in China for being ethnically Chinese, in spite being less successful than others and American. These foreign beauty standards are also interesting because I don't think Yuzu is considered that attractive in America in spite of a much wider variety of beauty standards here. White versions of his look are extremely popular (boy bands tend to be comprised of the "pretty" or "cute" type) but Asian men in general are not generally considered sex symbols around here and the few who break into mainstream stardom tend to be either comedic types or action stars and the "handsome" types have more of a Keiji look than a Yuzu look.

That explains it. I went to look for it too but over half of my library is deleted. I think I downloaded it before most stuff got purged but it's always a pain to look for anything in the hard drive - I downloaded everything in a hurry so none of it is organized. Seems like a weird video to get deleted since it doesn't compete with anything but he uploader probably posted more current videos that got the channel deleted. I never thought about the pointy chin but I'm watching Bleach right now and, you're right, all the major characters and most of the secondary characters have the pointy chin. The ahoge and hair in the face are really common as well. I've been thinking about beauty standards in other countries and it's effect on popularity. From the conversation in the WTT thread and some articles I read, it looks like the Chinese admire extreme slenderness in both males and females, which surprised me. I knew about the females and all the crazy challenges like the sheet of paper challenge but didn't realize that the guys are also held to this standard. It seems pretty common in Asian countries to want pale skin and the higher nose bridge and height for men. I thought the big eyes was a pretty common beauty standard as well but Yuzu doesn't have that. Is Boyang also considered very attractive in China? He seems to have a lot of the same physical characteristics as Yuzu but doesn't have that more feminine body shape. Is this androgynous look also prized in China? Korea has similar beauty standards right? But my understanding is that he's not popular there, though largely because of social/political tension in the 2 countries' histories. Is this golden proportion/mean/ratio thing more of a Japanese thing or a general principal of aesthetic? I tried to look it up but got a math thing and some explanations on how to use it in design. What about the "small face" thing? Is it fair to say that Yuzu and Yuna Kim are the 2 most popular skaters in the last 30 years or so (the only skater I can think of that would rival them is Sonja Henie, maybe Witt)? Mao is pretty popular too but not quite as famous as these two? Michelle Kwan is probably the most famous American skater but from everything I hear she wasn't very popular outside the US - do you think winning gold would have changed that or do you think being more average looking would have held her back from attaining the fame of the other 2 no matter what? How much of Yuzu and Kim's popularity is due to their physical beauty - before each of their second Olympics they were very successful but not more than a lot of other champions. How much of Alina's (and Masaru's) popularity is due to her being so beautiful? around here, I don't think it's as common for people to find Yuzu's look attractive, but I keep to a pretty small circle of friends. Most of the time the reaction to me looking at his photos has been "that's a guy?" and he's not nearly as famous here as everywhere else, but I think in the US that's true of every foreign athlete except maybe Maria Sharapova and Anna Kournikova. ok. sorry for the rambling, lol. That's a lot of really shallow questions.

I'm of absolutely no use but want to say how grateful I am that you took on this project.

What. The. F%#K?!?!!! I don't know even know how to react. I guess i am reacting - with utter bewilderment and extreme annoyance... I mean... I'm not normally sensitive to these things but what possible reasoning for doing this could there be that isn't offensive? eta: it also looks like they lightened his skin. eta 2: for comparison

It seems that people here don't think anyone is going to do a 5 quad layout. I don't mean to underestimate Yuzu, but I think realistically, we should only anticipate 1 new jump, which looks like the 4lutz. So then the question becomes, which jump will he drop for the lutz? Looks like others think it will be the loop. But if the goal is to increase his base value, the better choice will be the salchow. in 2017, when he landed it, he got higher GOE for the loop than the salchow and while the salchow is more consistent, between the two, it has also been the jump that has failed him more on the bigger occasions - 2017 4CC SP, 2017 Worlds SP, and now 2019 Worlds SP. There might be a mental reason to drop it, though obviously there is the physical reason to drop the loop since it takes off on the right ankle. I don't think it will be the toe because it's about as consistent as his axel at this point and is only worth .02 less than the salchow Honestly, I think Yuzu's best strategy is to announce his retirement so he can spend a year healing then focusing on working on his jumps instead of preparing for competitions. Nothing short of getting involved in the corruption himself is going to stop the political issues, which we know he won't do. Nathan and Vincent's scores will continue to inflate whether he's there or not. The only thing he can do to fight that is to up his own tech. btw, keep in mind that Nate was practicing a 5 quad layout at worlds. I think that is the long term plan. And actually, Yuzu being "retired" might actually benefit him psychologically. Pretty sure Yuzu is the primary reason Nate is working on that 5 quad layout. With him being "retired", other skaters might relax a little. Nate has consistently shown a pattern of only doing what he thinks is necessary. And yes, I know it's not Yuzu's mindset to want his opponents to be less; I'm just pointing out the strategic benefit.

This is a site of statistics. I still have to look through it https://www.sports.ru/tribuna/blogs/ternovblogfk/1400457.html These are just compilations of Ladies 3A and quads but no stats.

nvm. found it. sorry for wasting the bandwidth

could you explain more about your project? I think I've been working on something similar! I'm just making a list of significant moments in his life and career - records, awards, charity, etc. I'm hoping to have something for every day of the year and making a calendar out of it - though realistically, it'll just be a thread here starting in January

It's in the running for me. Undoubtedly, of all plain entry quads I think it's the best ever but I can't decide how I would rank it next to jumps with the more difficult entries. The only jumps I can think of that can compete are Yuzu's. I agree. If I had to prioritize, I think the depth of edge, smoothness/speed of glide are the most important aspects of a spiral - to the point that I'm hard pressed to pick between Cohen's beautiful flat spiral and Slutskaya's butt ugly fast, deeply curved spiral. I've just always loved Bobek's position and I guess there's a bit of nostalgia factor - that was the first season that I was more than just a casual viewer and Bobek's spiral was probably the single biggest "wow" element for me that year. I wish there was some sort of required element to do a long gliding element that forces them to put the quality of their edge front and center rather than allowing the ones with weaker skills to hide behind choppy choreography. btw, to everyone, if my OCD rearranging of links is annoying you I can wait to collect more of them before posting. It's just easier to link as I come across them and I think they are most interesting when directly compared to like elements but I can see how that might make following the thread harder. I'm also wondering if there will be issues with having so many links on one page - as usual, I'm letting myself get carried away

I also forgot to mention the absolutely perfect takeoff and nice posture.

4 SALCHOW Wow. That air position is perfectly perpendicular.

The video was made and shared by ICeleste SBS of them doing almost the exact step I really like the 2nd part of the video because you see them doing the steps sbs. By itself, I thought Nate's stsq was pretty good but right next to 19 yo Yuzu, all I can see is how shallow all the steps are

Awesome! Thanks. I've been looking for this forever.

QUAD LOOP http://perform-live.com/blog/video-analysis-of-figure-skating/183-how-to-improve-the-quad-loop-of-hanyu.html Ice Scope claims that the one he did at worlds was 220 cm long, 64 cm high. But the giant gap in measurement also doesn't mean much since they're 2 different jumps and Yuzu had more problems with the jump Perform-live used, and the GPF loop was out of a spread eagle. QUAD FLIP http://perform-live.com/our-works/video-analysis-of-figure-skating/164-how-to-do-a-quad-flip-by-shoma-uno-japan.html Shoma's flips look pretty consistently tiny. Earlier this year, TSL was doing GOE instructional videos and Dave kept insisting that he should get the "very good height and distance" bullet. How could I forget about the famous Tom Z facebook vid. My favorite thing about this video is how clearly you can see Vincent's skate bounce as he takes off facing forward. ETA: weird. It was the video but now I see Tom Z's essay and a link to the video that doesn't work.

Hope it's not too annoying but editing my posts to try to keep like elements together. 3 axels Blog post of different Ladies 3 axels http://morozombie.blogspot.com/2015/04/a-comparison-of-ladies-triple-axels.html This video is amazing. The whole thing is good but starting at 3:22, you can see sbs gifs. As expected, Ito's dwarfed the res OMG! sbs of Kihira and Yuzu. I want to see a sbs of Ito and all the men! Frame by frame shots are my new obsession. Still need to find Tuk but here's Rika. The more I look at these, the more impressed I am with Mao's. Hers is so delicate looking but it's a decent sized jump with superior body position. I think it compares favorably with every axel except Ito's Obviously this isn't Nathan's best axel but it's amazing to see it right next to Yuzu's composite photo. Hopefully I can find a more recent one but pretty sure that his axel hasn't gotten any bigger Sept 1, 2016 Obviously this was taken from the Olympics so probably not an example of his typical axel but no wonder he had issues with it. look at all the snow on the takeoff. I don't follow Chan but now I'm curious if his legs are in that air position for other jumps. Also loving these collages people put together - Spirals Don't know who the person in the bottom right corner is but I like hers the best out of these collages. I've never been a fan of the hand assisted spirals and Sasha's edge bothers me. Though when I mentally filter out the hand holding the leg, I think Mao has the best combo of position + edge. I find Yuna's photo somewhat jarring - not her best element. Still think of Bobek when I think of the most beautiful spirals. I prefer the alignment of her body to Michelle's though in these photos it looks like Michelle has a better edge.

Answer Key 1. List the top 3 combined totals for men 1. Chen - 101.95+199.49=301.44 2. Zhou - 100.51+198.5=299.01 3. Uno - 92.78+189.46=282.24 (Nobody guessed this order) 2.List the top 3 combined totals for ladies 1.Tuktamysheva - 80.54+153.89=234.43 2. Tennell - 74.81+150.83=225.64 3.Sakamoto - 76.95+146.70=223.65 (Nobody guessed this order) 3. Which country’s teams will be the gold, silver, and bronze medalists? 1.USA - 117 2.JPN - 104 3.RUS -102 (Nobody guessed this order) 4. List the top 3 combined totals for pairs James/Cipres = 73.48 +152.52=226 Zabiiako/Enbert = 75.8 + 141.32= 217.12 Della Monica/Guarise = 69.77 + 130.85=200.62 5. List the top 3 combined totals for dance 1.Papadakis/Cizeron - 87.31 + 135.82=223.13 2.Sinitsina/Katsalapov - 84.57+130.63=215.2 3.Hubbell/Donohue - 82.86+127.11=209.97 6. Who will earn the most points on each team (remember that points are based on placement in each of the segments rather than score) Japan - Shoma Uno, Rika Kihira, Kaori Sakamoto all with 20 points Russia - Zabiiako/Enbert - 21 points USA - Chen - 24 points Italy - Della Monica/Guarise - 19 France - P/C - 24 points Canada - Moore-Towers/Marinaro - 19 7. Who will receive the highest raw GOE on a jump (includes throws for pairs)? Sakamoto - SP - 3lo - 4.43 (Nobody guessed this correctly though 1 person wished it) 8. Who will receive the highest raw GOE on a non-jump element. If multiple skaters tie, it will be based on who gets the most elements with that GOE. If there is still a tie, choosing any of those skaters will get you the points. P/C - GOE 5 - rhythm dance - CuLi4, free dance - ChLi1, StaLi4, CuLi4. All these elements were unanimous. Their ChSt1 in the free dance also got a final GOE of 5 after trimmed mean. 9. Who will receive the highest raw PCS score? P/C - 49.57 - free dance 10. For those who attended both, whose total score will improve the most from worlds? Keiji Tanaka -20.44 (nobody guessed this) 11. In which disciplines, will there be a new world record? Ladies SP - Rika Kihira - 83.97, Papadakis/Cizeron - FD - 135.82 (nobody guessed this combo though several guessed one or the other or both + men) 12. Which country’s teams will have no falls or pops of greater than 1 rotation (i.e. quad to double, triples to singles)? None. USA was closest with 1 fall. 13. Will there be any singles skaters that have all positive GOE and level 4’s throughout the competition? Yes - Tuktamysheva 1.River - 36 2.LadyLou - 34 3.Airi - 32 3.Old Cat Lady - 32 5.Yume - 31 6.Anski - 27 7.Ralucutzagy - 22 Look at that - I managed to podium. Obviously must have rigged it in my favor. I guess that means I'm ready to be on a skating panel. Since I organized the event then appointed myself judge, does that mean I should move to Canada? I think next year I'll make all the placement predictions be worth the same. I wasn't thinking about the fact that in most competitions the majority of competitors aren't really contenders for the podium so it's not that different in difficulty predicting a field of 6 vs. 12.

I'm not trying to vouch for the accuracy or relevance of any of this stuff. I just have one of those nerd brains that like to collect as much data as possible before drawing conclusions. And for me it's just plain fun to watch. Also, I didn't intend to make this a Yuzu vs. Nathan thing. I just posted the stuff that I happen to have on hand. I'm currently looking for that gif of Javi's 4s superimposed over Yuzu's AC 4s. I would also love a gif of a Tuktamysheva 3axel imposed over a Kihira one. And I'm looking for that Russian article comparing the jump heights - wish I thought of this earlier. So much more work to look for it later than to just save it right away. anyway, until then, here's some ice scope data. Of course, the accuracy of it has been debated quite a bit. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10Gm4Aq6j4py4cQ1Nq-_RpdA0vYhG0kABaVPVRVLsj6k/edit?usp=sharing

apparently can't delete posts. moved video to diff post.

Does anyone have advice on software/instructions on gif and video making for a beginner? I love those videos that overlay elements or show them side by side and want to learn how to make them. if they're already made I was hoping we could collect them here

I wanted to collect videos and articles comparing elements/programs side by side or over layed so you can directly compare them. Lutz This one gives stats on quad lutzes performed by Nathan and Yuzu http://perform-live.com/blog/video-analysis-of-figure-skating/231-quad-lutz-what-else.html Not sure how informative it is since it's so old but this also has these types of pics of Nathan's jumps from the Olympics https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/02/16/sports/olympics/nathan-chen-mens-figure-skating.html Lutz by Boyang http://perform-live.com/blog/video-analysis-of-figure-skating/216-interactive-advanced-analysis-4lz-jin.html Judging by the videos I've seen so far, I think this might be the greatest quad Lutz ever performed. Huge height and distance and a smooth landing. Seeing these GIFS of Kolyada's makes me so sad. I'm guessing the falls later in the season unnerved him and he was trying to skate cleaner so he dropped it. I don't get how jumps with such perfect looking technique are so inconsistent. Did he just develop the yips and could never overcome them? SBS of Scherbakova and Trusova at the beginning This was already posted in General Yuzuru chat but I wanted to have a thread dedicated to illustrating differences in quality so I hope admins don't mind me reposting here

Anyone have that GIF where Yuzu is hugging Boyang in the kiss and cry at the Olympics and grabs Boyang on the upper thigh?

If the judges actually followed the guidelines, the current system does do a decent job of rewarding height/distance. Being a core bullet, it makes a huge swing in scores. But since people keep pushing the "these are only guidelines, you don't have to follow them" narrative, not only is there no reward, but like the "out of steps/difficult entry" bullet, judges actually punish skaters for things they're supposed to be rewarded for since these things make the jumps so much harder and, therefore, often cause other problems. There's a reason that Nathan and Vincent are so much more consistent and it's not because they're so much more talented - they save a lot of energy with their small jumps and simple entries and those jumps are much easier to control. Frankly, if anything, I'm often impressed that Nate's managed to actually complete the rotations in such small jumps. That's also why I'm not surprised at the lack of correlation between height/distance and GOE's - big jumps are harder to land well so naturally the jumps are likely to have other problems or don't have the extra features. so the judges then deduct for the problems but don't give credit for the height/distance. What I think would be interesting is seeing where the jumps that get greater than 3 GOE are on the list of height/distance ranks since height/distance is supposed to be a core bullet. I think it's fair that if the jump is in the bottom third or half of all jumps in size, then they shouldn't get that bullet.

There's no proof that he can, either. Let me see if I am accurately understanding the points of view throughout this conversation: your argument seems to be: He does these few things well so of course he can do it just as well if there's more My argument: You need to prove it. Your argument: You can tell who has greater ability by simply comparing the few similar things they do My argument: Just because you're good at some aspects doesn't mean you're just as good at others. Shouldn't someone who demonstrates proficiency in many areas get more credit than someone who only shows it in a few? Your argument: The overall skating skills description says the score is for ability, not content. My argument: A key phrase in the main description as well as the wording in the supporting descriptors make it look like they're also marking content - at the very least, they're looking for variety. Though this is not a point I consider worth debating to much extent as the only way to know the intent for sure is to ask the developers. However, as a corollary to this point, I argue complexity shows a greater demonstration of skill. For example, Skater A does 4 crossovers into a spiral Skater B does mohawk, twizzle, 2 crossovers, change edge spiral They both show exceptional speed. They both are getting a lot of power from their crossovers. Both the spirals are on a very deep edge. But I argue that Skater B is demonstrating greater skill. Are we supposed to just assume that because Skater A's crossovers look as good or better than Skater B's, that skater A can do the twizzle and mohawk just as well? Or that he'd be able to have the same control and speed on his spiral if he added the extra steps and edge or had 2 less pushes? Certainly, not doing it doesn't prove he can't. But what matters is what he actually demonstrates. Similarly, if someone is able to do a perfectly centered, beautifully positioned sit spin of 5 revolutions should we just assume he can also do a change foot sit spin with a difficult variation of 10 revolutions just as well? Isn't it possible for one skater to do a single position spin better but another skater to be able to do the more complicated one better? Isn't the second skater showing a greater demonstration of the vocabulary of skills? Heck, let's remove the variations. Doesn't it show greater skill to be able to keep a spin fast and centered while holding a perfect position for 10 revolutions than it would to do the same for 5? How do we know that the skater won't eventually slow down? I'm not "taking away credit" for only rewarding skater A for what he actually does. So, you're arguing Alina Zagitova makes it look good? No one here is trying to argue that Zagitova's skating skills on any level compares favorably to Kostner (I didn't watch much skating during the Kim era). But yes, I do believe that it is much easier for Nathan Chen to make that 1/2 second inside edge spread eagle look better than that wobbly ass 2-3 second back outside spread eagle. Yes, I do think it was much easier for Kostner to make her many, many crossovers look floaty and beautiful than it was for her to make her step sequence look effortless and sharp. Yes, I do think it's easier for Chen to look confident and secure in his crossovers with sexy ballet arms (can't remember if that was you who came up with that but I've always enjoyed that phrase) than it is for Boyang Jin to make turns and steps look smooth. And as you referenced above, I argue that maintaining the quality of even simple turns, steps, and edges throughout the program shows greater skill than doing it in small segments here and there. I rarely find exhibitions worth watching so I didn't watch many of them. I love that Yuzu puts so much effort into his exhibitions. His gala programs are even more nuanced than a lot of his competition programs. I also enjoyed Sui/Han's exhibition but not sure if the program itself was that great or if it's just because Sui/Han are just so good.

Can't do 2 triple axels or sequences in the short and you'd lose more points than you'd gain on the sequence even if you could. I like the comment on the bottom. Someone informed them that they need to print more because foreigners will try to buy them. Finally, people in Japan are thinking of us