Old Cat Lady

re: commonality of highly talented skaters crashing/career ending injuries keep in mind that I followed skating minimally between 2006-2018. Off the top of my head with an assist from wiki for verification... Tonya Harding - Silver medal at 1991 worlds and no medals on the world or Olympic stage in spite of being one of the most talented skaters Urmanov - 1994 Olympic champion - has never gotten a world medal past 1994, injured himself in 1997 and didn't heal in time for 1998 Olympics, retired Oksana Baiul - lost her jumps post 1994, multiple personal problems - and yes, I know she retired but even by pro standards, her tech was poor Jamie Silverstein - ice dancing - won junior worlds and together with Justin Pekarek - was touted as future world/Olympic medal contender. took a break to treat an eating disorder and never managed to reach previous levels Nicole Bobek - 1 world bronze medal and no other world/Olympic medals. Gracie Gold - 4th at worlds- eating disorder, currently can't make the TES minimum Gabrielle Daleman - 3rd at worlds - multiple problems - highest international finish since then was 6th at a challenger/Grand Prix event Julia Lipnitskaya - 2014 world silver medalist/4th at Olympics - never again made the world team - eating disorder/technique not designed for a growing body Adelina Sotnikova - Olympic champion to not making world team - injury?/technique not designed for growing body Anna Pogorilaya - from 3rd at worlds to 13th, never again made the world team - retired due to back injury Tatsuki Machida - world silver, no other world or Olympic medal - following season was 6th at GPF and then retired Kimmie Meissner - 2006 world champion, then 4th, then 7th, then didn't make the world team Angelika Krylova - ice dance - world champion to retirement due to back injury Philippe Candeloro - went from 3rd at worlds/Olympics to 9th to not making the French world team before his resurgence in 1998 There's a lot more examples, especially if you go across sports, but the point is, it's not that rare for highly talented skaters (athletes in general) to peak and not maintain those high levels for various reasons. That's why usually when people refer to all time greats, they normally choose someone who's managed to be at the top for many years - because it's so difficult and rare to maintain that excellence. re: relationship between quads and shortened career While I would agree that any time you increase the difficulty, you're increasing the risk of injury. But where are you drawing the line and what is the solution? From what I can tell, there are many more career crashes due to factors other than quads - do we also manage every one of those and, if so, where is the ISU finding all this money to monitor/enforce this? And if you want to focus on the quads - what is a fair solution? I would argue that Yuzu's 2 major injuries are due more to illness, poor ice conditions, and being injury prone in general. If it was purely due to the quad race, these injuries would be just as likely at home. And he was frequently injured before the men's event evolved to 4+ quads in the FS. Conversely, look at Nathan Chen. He's done more quads than anyone and has remained injury free in over 3 years as a senior. His only significant injury was due to growth spurts while he was still a junior. A for Vincent, Shoma, and Boyang, as you said, we're not really sure what's going on with them. Vincent's knee injury was sustained while he was doing shows, so it seems highly unlikely that he did it while pushing himself too far technically and I've never heard about the back - seems strange that he would hide that when he was so open about the knee but who knows. But a lot of things lead to back problems - are we supposed to stop all of them? Tara Lipinski's hip injury is likely due to drilling 3lo/3lo - should we stop loop combos? As for Misha, almost any time you have a condition, pushing yourself to extremes is going to exacerbate it - I admit I don't know much about sinusitis, but it seems that doing a full run through even with all triples would also exacerbate a health condition. Professional sports in general, is hard on the body. The human body was not designed to consistently be put under these extremes. That's why so few can do it for a long time. The only real solution to stop the deterioration of the body is to stop people from competing. Obviously questions should always be asked on how things can be improved, but it should be done with the understanding that elite sports by nature is kind of freakish and we shouldn't let personal preference bias the questions we ask I didn't make any attempt to justify Samarin's PCS nor was I trying to compare him to any other skater, only using him as an example of another extremely talented skater to illustrate why I think the current field is actually very deep. I did say specifically that he was rough around the edges in my post.

These comments are based on memory so I might change my mind when I have more time to look into it, but I tend to think of 2016/2017/2018 more as a golden age of men's skating rather than the current time as a decimation. I've been watching since the early 90's and iirc, skaters have always had a short shelf life. It's also common for the field to be weaker in the 2 post Olympic years as old champions retire and new ones are still developing. Currently, we have 2 heavy weights battling for gold and a whole bunch of very talented skaters battling for bronze. In the initial post Sochi competitions, we had Yuzu and Javi battling for gold and some less talented and/or less developed skaters going for bronze until the Shoma, Nathan, Boyang were developed enough to challenge by 2017 and 2018. Post vancouver, was Patrick and Dai with weaker skaters sneaking in for the bronze until the rise of Yuzu, Denis, and Javi to make it more of a competition. From 2003-2009 it was Plushenko and the rest. Post Nagano, we had Yagudin vs. Plushenko and a bunch of also rans. 1995-1998, we had Elvis winning more on mental strength in a field of inconsistent skaters until the Olympic year with Todd Eldredge, who peaked then went away sneaking in for a world title. The point of all this, is that it's hard to say how much of the current state of skating can be blamed on the rise of multi quad programs when there were always ebbs and flows in skating talent. In fact, I would argue that the current field is actually stronger than a lot of the previous ones at this stage of the Olympic cycle. Boyang is a chronic slow starter and it's pretty common for improvements in skating skills to wreck consistency on jumps. Kolyada's absence has nothing to do with skating (at least i don't see a connection between sinusitis and quads except maybe skating prevented him from getting proper treatment for it earlier). Many people have speculated that Uno's technique wouldn't hold up over the long run so it has more to do with coaching issues than quads themselves and even then, his issues this year seem more mental/life situational than physical. Zhou's problems also seems more mental/coaching technique/life issues - not sure, but I thought that injury he got over the summer was more of a freak accident. Aliev has always been a head case. Further down the list, we see another beautiful head case in Samohin - the raw material is there, he just need to put it together. We have Cha who is still maturing and needing consistency. I personally think Samarin has a lot of raw potential to work with - huge jumps, it looks like good speed (though never seen him irl), exuberance, good posture, and a decent natural body line - perfectly normal for skaters to still be rough around the edges at this stage in their career. I know most people see all the short comings, but I see the depth of talent. The second tier is so much deeper than the 90's and early 2000's. I see the gap in scoring to be more about greatness at the top

Sorry, looks like we had another miscommunication with the questions so I'll start doing notifications for the new form. @sallycinnamon @LadyLou @Legacy and Hope @river @Paskud @mercedes @airi @Louitunes @TeaFrida I won't get to the scoring until Monday night/Tuesday morning as usual but I wanted to give you guys more time since it looks like Louitunes was quite crunched for time this last time around. Here's the form for predictions: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdt9divVBrmZpGmhzhPSbwiWq5H-oNusscf1uVvBh9EDQ6b3A/viewform?usp=pp_url&entry.1349141795=x Here's the entries for Cup of China http://www.isuresults.com/events/fsevent03111930.htm

Don't have time to comment now but want to post this before I forget I wish I knew how to post it at the exact time stamp. I managed to pause it at the exact moment of pick and you can see that Nathan is on a complete flat if not a slight outside edge. Yuzu is on the shallowest of inside edges at pick Also, it was pointed out to me in another thread that I had the wrong layout for Nathan at SkAm so I redid his projections for Skate America Actual TES Actual PCS Deductions Actual Total SP 56.21 46.5 102.71 LP 102.38 94 196.38 299.09 Proj TES Proj PCS Deductions Proj Total SP 58.24 46.50 104.74 LP 119.36 94.78 214.14 318.87 BV: 141.02 Here's Nathan's projections for IdF Actual TES Actual PCS Deductions Actual Total SP 55.97 46.51 102.48 LP 102.1 92.58 194.68 297.16 Proj TES Proj PCS Deductions Proj Total SP 61.12 46.51 107.63 LP 117.31 94.78 212.09 319.72 BV: 140.75 I used a 3 GOE for Nathan's quads and his LP axel GOE for his SP axel. I swear, I have more to talk about than Nathan and Yuzu but I'll have to get to it later

ISU really needs to be better at defining all their terms. I can actually see an argument either way. I personally see this as "2 hands + free foot down + step out" since the mid section didn't touch the ice (and recall seeing it called that way for Shoma last year) but the GOE guidelines have reduction guidelines for "touch down with both hands" as well as "touch down with free foot or hand" but no guideline for all limbs. That can be interpreted either as simply adding the 2 reductions together or that anything more than that is a fall Either way, I think it should be a -5 GOE since if you interpret it one way, all the reductions added together is more than 5

Yes, I've noticed that too. That's what I meant when I wrote that skaters' marks are often affected by how they perform other elements. It doesn't always happen, but there is somewhat of a tendency to let an overall impression override intellectual analysis. While I agree the 4s wasn't perfect, I think the strength of the first element nudges the score upward or downward. I don't think the impression left by other aspects of the skate will tip it from a 3 to a 5, but I do think it can affect it 1 GOE point up or down. Though I also feel that none of the jumps were landed at his best quality so I don't have issue with any of his scores (unless you compare with what Nate got). I actually did the Skate Canada projections but haven't posted them yet. I used to do max projections, but I think most performances have at least some up and down and so I think "correcting" mistakes rather than doing a "best of" is slightly more accurate, though in the end, I think it'll just come down to who skates clean. In the case of Autumn Classic, I figured it was a little low because multiple elements were lower quality, if not outright mistakes. The Skate Canada projections are done with the PCS Yuzu actually received since they are new personal bests. Keep in mind that since I only correct level losses and GOE 0 or less, I kept the 4t/3t SP GOE. A cleaner landing on that would likely have gained him another 2 points. I changed his loop to 3.14, which is what his salchow got. I also think his PCS will still go up Actual TES Actual PCS Deductions Actual Total SP 61.13 48.47 109.6 LP 116.59 96.4 212.99 322.59 SP Proj TES Proj PCS Deductions Proj Total LP 61.77 48.47 110.24 120.04 96.40 216.44 326.67 BV: 139.35

When I was boarding the plane in Kelowna I overheard one of the flight attendants saying "There was a figure skating event this weekend, Skate Canada. This was the busiest day in airline history". The taxi driver said a couple days before the event, a hotel manager told him that they were fully booked. Then he went to another hotel and that one was full. Then he went to another, and that one was full as well. He didn't know anything about figure skating, but he told his boss that they needed extra cars on the weekend and they still had to turn down customers. I went to a restaurant at 3:00 pm thinking that's usually the slow time and the restaurant was completely packed. I remember there was that tweet after mentioning Yuzu where the Olympic Channel mentioned getting a lot more hits than usual and they surmised it was because they used an exclamation point in the tweet Makes me wonder if they read any of the replies to their tweets - most of the replies had a Yuzu avatar. It seemed like such a ridiculous conclusion that, to this day, I wonder if they were being serious or if someone was being a little tongue in cheek.

lol, I'm not doing any better. sitting 3rd from last at Sk Can and 2nd to last at Sk Am. Of those who have done both, I'm tied for last in the overall. @ralucutzagy You missed BQ4 for who gets highest GOE on a single element. You can just answer that one in thread if you still want to get it before the deadline.

It's probably for the best. Gabby just did not look ready for her last 2 competitions. It has to be a psychological beating to keep performing this poorly

until the warm up of the first event. 14.30 French time, Nov. 1st Here's the schedule https://ffsg.org/evenement/internationaux-de-france-de-patinage-artistique-danse-sur-glace-2019-grenoble/

@Legacy and Hope @sallycinnamon @LadyLou @airi @river @mercedes @Paskud @Louitunes @TeaFrida @ralucutzagy Got the scoring done. In order of highest score: Men Ladies Pairs Dance BQ1 BQ2 BQ3 BQ4 BQ5 Total Points TeaFrida 6 6 3 6 2 0 2 0 0 25 airi 6 6 3 3 2 2 2 0 0 24 Paskud 6 4 5 2 2 0 2 0 2 23 Legacy and Hope 6 6 2 3 2 2 2 0 0 23 Louitunes 6 6 2 3 2 2 2 0 0 23 ralucutzagy 6 6 2 2 2 0 2 2 0 22 sallycinnamon 6 6 3 3 2 0 2 0 0 22 mercedes 6 6 4 1 0 0 2 2 0 21 Old Cat Lady 4 6 2 3 0 2 2 0 2 21 LadyLou 4 4 3 3 2 0 2 0 2 20 river 4 6 2 3 0 0 2 0 2 19 Answer Key Men's Podium 1. Yuzuru Hanyu 2. Nam Nguyen 3. Keiji Tanaka Ladies Podium 1. Alexandra Trusova 2. Rika Kihira 3. Young You Pairs Podium 1. Boikova/Kozlovskii 2. Moore-Towers/Marinaro 3. Tarasova/Morozov Dance Podium 1. Gilles/Poirier 2. Hubbell/Donohue 3. Fear/Gibson BQ1: Will the ladies or men's podium have the higher FS TES? Men - 293.91 BQ2: Will any ice dancer move 2 or more spots between rhythm dance and free dance? Yes - Popova/Mozgov went from 6th in RD to 8th in FD/overall BQ3: Will there be more clean quads among the top 3 men or from 4th-12th? Top 3 - everyone got this one right. BQ4: Which discipline will have the most falls? Ladies - 10 falls BQ5: Which discipline's podium will have the highest PCS before factoring? Dance - 271.68 TeaFrida was the only one to correctly guess the upset in dance and Paskud was the only one to guess the victory by Boikova/Kozlovskii

Won't get to the scoring until later tonight but here's the form for IdF predictions. https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSf6gbtrO5DDF7OqXIv5AjKQjNxpw2tmrYhLsM-ygcRC0IxkaA/viewform?usp=pp_url&entry.1349141795=x Here's the entrants http://www.isuresults.com/events/fsevent03111926.htm As usual, let me know if you have any issues with the form. If you do, you can just post in the thread.

This is fine. If anyone else is having trouble, they can just post it in thread. I put a new link in so hopefully that solves the problem.

Thanks Sally I also did projections for Nathan and redid Yuzu's so that methodology matches. Same methodology as ladies 1. Scores are based on actual attempted layouts done cleanly. I had to guess a little because if a skater pops but it isn't obvious by body position, I used what I thought they were attempting based on their abilities and previous patterns. So I changed Nathan's single and double flip to a triple. 2. I calculated actual GOE received and changed the ones that were not positive (so 0's got changed as well). If the skater received a sign, I added the max value of reduction given in the guidelines to the GOE. If a skater landed a similar element cleanly in the same competition, I used the GOE for that element. 3. If a skater lost a level, I used the same GOE as the one received but changed the levels to 4. 4. Used highest PCS received for that portion since the beginning of last season. A couple caveats to this is that often times GOE's seem to be affected not only by location and the field, but by how well the skater skates the other elements. I also question only adding +2 back to GOE for ur because so far this year, it seems that the score ends up being lower than if the skater did the same element but with no sign from the tech panel. Hanyu at Autumn Classic (Rostelecom SP PCS and Worlds LP PCS). I used 4 for his salchows and loop because his 4 toe that was called clean got 4.2 and it's the closest reference to what this panel would have given him if they were clean. Actual TES Actual PCS Deductions Actual Total SP 53.03 46.35 -1 98.38 LP 90.97 89.7 180.67 279.05 Proj TES Proj PCS Deductions Proj Total SP 62.73 48.09 110.82 LP 115.26 95.84 211.10 321.92 BV: 138.25 Chen at Japan Open (Worlds PCS) Actual TES Actual PCS Deductions Actual Total LP 98.67 91.16 189.83 Proj TES Proj PCS Deductions Proj Total LP 114.29 94.78 209.07 Chen at Skate America (actual PCS received for SP and worlds PCS for LP) Actual TES Actual PCS Deductions Actual Total SP 56.21 46.5 102.71 LP 102.38 94 196.38 299.09 Proj TES Proj PCS Deductions Proj Total SP 58.24 46.50 104.74 LP 122.55 94.78 217.33 322.06 BV: 144.21

@sallycinnamon Can you move this thread to the general skating forum? Figured it makes more sense to discuss the discipline as a whole like with the ladies thread. I thought the start of the season has been ... uh... interesting so far. It seems that Yuzu and Nathan are pulling away from Shoma. Or rather, Shoma is falling away from them. To me, the men's field is actually very deep, but it's really bunched up in that 2nd/3rd tier rather than at the top, like with the ladies. Some might find the men anti-climactic because so often it's obvious who'll win, but if you look beyond the first place, it's quite unpredictable. Kolyada's out. Boyang has shown glimpses of his best self and then crashes. YOu never know when Jason will sneak through for a medal. Sota and Keiji have the best results of their careers. Aliev randomly has a good competition after looking terrible at test skates. Shoma's fallen from 1 of the big 3 to "the best of the rest". Vincent's momentum has come to a grinding halt though a couple good events can bring it back. I'm actually quite sad that he withdrew from the Grand Prix - I thought the Vincent vs. Shoma match up was the 2nd most intriguing of the series. Tbh, I was never as excited by Cha as most of you were, but I like his programs and he is upgrading his tech so maybe when it's stabilized he'll be more of a factor at Beijing than I thought. At Autumn Classic I was impressed by his improvements during practice but I was disappointed during actual competition. In the juniors, Gogolev is going through growing pains it seems and didn't make GPF. At the beginning of last year, I was betting on the Beijing podium to be a battle between Boyang, Yuzu, Nathan, and Shoma. Now, I have no idea who to bet on outside of Yuzu and Nathan (if Yuzu goes, of course).

I think I underestimated Anna quite a bit. Her lutz looks completely stable now. It's going to be tough for Zagitova. After seeing this, I feel like Tuk and Med are out of the race. Then I wonder what happens to a top skater that still loves to compete but can't make the world team. Some are saying they should retire - but what else are they supposed to do? They are still 2 of the best skaters in the world. I don't think they're big enough to do their own tour unless they want to do one together maybe. There's only so many shows and commentary positions out there. Honestly, not sure why I do these because they didn't seem to be indicative of anything last year but here's Skate America projections. Elizaveta Tuktamysheva Actual TES Actual PCS Actual Total SP 36.42 30.86 67.28 LP 74.39 64.3 138.69 205.97 Proj TES Proj PCS Proj Total SP 41.76 34.68 76.44 LP 77.51 71.74 149.25 225.69 BV: 35.99 67.62 103.61 Anna Scherbakova Actual TES Actual PCS Actual Total SP 36.91 31.69 68.6 LP 92.2 67.96 160.16 deduction: -1 227.76 Proj TES Proj PCS Proj Total SP 41.59 34.00 75.59 LP 98.09 67.95 166.04 241.63 BV: 33.78 80.38 114.16 One thing I've noticed this year is that it seems like judges are deducting more than the -1 to -2 on the GOE for under rotations. I add +2 to the GOE's whenever a < is called, but the score is generally lower than what they would have gotten without the sign. Tuk keeps changing her layout. I'm guessing they're just experimenting based on what GOE they think she'll get. I imagine the edge calls at the last event scared her off from the flips but she didn't get them at Lombardia. For a low GOE skater like her, she's better off going for the base value and hoping for the best from the tech panel unless she knows that a certain panel hates her.

@sallycinnamon @LadyLou @Legacy and Hope @river @mercedes @airi @Paskud @Louitunes @TeaFrida Found my passport. Got the scoring done. I often catch myself making mistakes so if there's anything that looks weird, let me know. Keep in mind that I'm only scoring based on the top 3 predictions - the 4th was just in case of withdrawal so it didn't count toward scores. In order of placement: Men Ladies Pairs Dance Q2 Q3 Q4 Q5 Q6 Total Points sallycinnamon 6 5 4 9 2 2 2 0 2 32 LadyLou 6 6 2 9 2 0 2 2 2 31 Legacy and Hope 4 6 4 9 2 2 2 0 2 31 river 4 5 4 9 2 0 2 0 2 28 mercedes 4 5 6 6 2 0 0 2 0 25 airi 5 5 2 5 2 0 0 2 2 23 Paskud 6 5 2 2 2 2 0 2 2 23 Louitunes 6 2 6 2 2 2 0 2 0 22 Old Cat Lady 4 2 4 6 2 0 0 2 2 22 TeaFrida 4 5 3 2 2 0 0 2 0 18 Mercedes it looks like we still had a little bit of miscommunication and I didn't notice until I did the scoring so unfortunately I couldn't give you points for one of the . Sorry. Answer Key 1.List the top 3 of each discipline. (+ extra in case someone withdraws) Men's Podium 1. Nathan Chen 2. Jason Brown 3. Dmitri Aliev Ladies Podium 1. Scherbakova 2. Bradie Tennell 3. Elizaveta Tuktamysheva Pairs Podium 1. Peng/Jin 2. Pavliuchenko/Khodykin 3. Denney/Frazier Dance Podium 1. Hubbell/Donohue 2. Stepanova/Bukin 3. Beaudry/Sorensen Bonus Questions 2. In ladies, will there be more clean (positive GOE) 3 axels or quads? As expected, everyone got this one right - sorry about my airhead moments when making the questionnaire. 3 axels - all 3 of Liza's got positive GOE 3. Who will have the highest PCS before factoring? Chen - 47 - free skate 4. Who will receive the highest GOE on a single element (before factoring)? Chen - choreo sequence: +5 5. In ice dance, will anyone who was not top 3 after the rhythm dance end up with a medal? no 6. Which disciplines will have a new season’s best? men: total 299.09, sp 102.71, FS 196.38 dance: total 209.55 (H/D), free dance 124.66 (S/B), rhythm dance 81.91 (H/D) Thanks for playing everyone. Remember to make your predictions for Skate Canada - form is in above post.

I might be a little late with the Skate America results. I'm in panic mode right now because I can't find my passport and my flight for Canada is on Wednesday. For right now, here's the form for Skate Canada. Hopefully I'll be at the event so the results for this will also be late https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSd-Ti5oGMD9WDqnRNUKDSS0Tdfi2jiom1VWk_nakXNs9vukvw/viewform?usp=pp_url&entry.1349141795=x Never used forms before so let me know if there's a problem. Also make sure you read the question after clicking on it before answering because it seems that sometimes the question gets cut off on the preview oops. forgot the entries. Here they are http://www.isuresults.com/events/fsevent03111922.htm eta 2: just did my predictions. the short answer is a little awkward to fill out - next time I'll split the questions between disciplines. Bear with me this round. I'll fix it for IdF. Open to suggestions if you're finding anything difficult

I don't mean to be one of THOSE fans but I feel like this is a clever way of using Yuzu to promote their products without actually being required to pay him anything But it's better to be positive about these things so I'll take comfort in the likelihood that Yuzu himself would be delighted

Did my projected scores for Finlandia. Tuktamysheva Actual total = 212.53 Projected Score = 79.37+149.2=228.57 BV=100.61 Oddly, she changed her FS layout quite a bit from Lombardia, which results in her losing 4.1 points in BV. Her total projected score is 3.1 points lower than what I projected for Lombardia, but that is mostly due to the change in BV. In an effort to be fair to all the skaters, I used WTT scores for PCS, but I don't know if that's a very good methodology since WTT tends to score high and the point of the projections is to try to guess what they'd score in a real competition if they are clean. Kostornaya Used the actual PCS scores because I believe this is a career best for her. Actual total is 234.67 Projected total is 77.08+161.97=239.05 BV=103.1 What's interesting is when I change Trusova's projected PCS to her actual PCS + projected TES at Ondrej Nepela, which is essentially what I had to do with Kostornaya, Trusova only scores 236.27. If you use Trusova's JPN Open projected FS tes + Ondrej Nepela SP TES with actual PCS, the score becomes 241.51 (only 1.56 points lower) even with 4 quads! The caveat here is that Trusova's landings were messy at JPN Open, causing low GOE's but I only change GOE's for elements that have negative GOE. If you replace Kostornaya's SP 2a to 3a with the GOE she got for her 3a combo in the FS (+actual PCS from Finlandia), we get a projected SP of 83.07, making the combined total 245.04.

Lol, I guess that video of Yuzu squeezing his pecs is popular. I forget who, but I saw these pics floating around twitter. Can you see the difference between last year and this year? Maybe up half a cup size? Origin looks slightly perkier in the middle but with his back arched the opposite way it's hard to tell. eta: oops. forgot the credits. The Origin says Rika H. on the pic so a fair guess it's hers. Otonal pic I believe was originally on an inside skating article? But was tweeted by Pamigena.

Hopefully the Finnish judge is the one from Helsinki last year to help balance out the US judge. I was just about to say that it's irrelevant that the JPN judge isn't on the panel since they normally just hurt their own skaters anyway, but it seems like at least a couple JPN judge have started playing the game this year so that could be really hurtful. Not that I condone blatant bias, but if ISU isn't going to do anything to correct it, I"d like the bias to at least be balanced. At least there's no Mexican judge - they might as well be called U.S. judge #2.

I meant before factoring. It's now clarified on original post

Yuzu was on some diet. There's an article floating around about how his pants started getting tight. I imagine it was tailored to fit like a glove like the white one... then he gained some more muscle and it turned into the PPOS

...and more importantly, can he even fit into those pants anymore after the weight he's gained? Let's be honest, those things were stretched to their limit in 2017.