Xen

Before we start going into details, the entire analysis of what we should do in regards to judging is based on a premise: Figure skating is half sport, half art, therefore the sport component scores (TES) and artistic components of the scores (PCS) must be balanced at precisely or nearly 50/50. - This is why under the 6.0 system, both Tech scores and artistry scores were capped at 6.0. - This would also argue for lowering TES to a degree, and argue for rising the PCS co-efficients - This could also be the rationale partially, behind the PCS inflation in the quad-happy era in the men's, the urge to balance the scores for skaters because they should be balanced If we find this premise to be true, then before we even go happy with PCS coefficients and lowering BVs, why not consider some other things? For this, I'd like to kindly mention the-a-factor (recent ep translation up here) where there are very specific mentions of pre-rotation calls, steps preceeding a jump, SS and TR scores (which are more technical). So before we go happy with the lowering BV, it would be good for the ISU to consider several things: 1) Increasing the ability of the tech panal to do its job. This ties in with the cameras that Rocker Skating article mentions-why give tech panel a blind spot? But as Max and Angelo mention in their podcast, there needs to also be clear rules and stipulations about pre-rotations. When a flip or a lutz takes off on a severe enough edge to make it a loop essentially, it should not have the same BV as a lutz or flip. If you pre-rotate past the half way mark, you should be dinged. All of this will lower the TES significantly across the board, especially the men's field will see less legit 4F and 4Lz scores pop up. And if you call the steps requirement correctly in the SP, you'll see less guys attempting the hard quads as a solo jump- sure the BV is still higher than the triples version, but as Max and Angelo said, some guys will ponder and think, and it would limit options in the SP. The end result of both the above might be-le gasp-less quads! Again, if the goal is to lower TES scores-the above might actually be sufficient (when implemented well) to do the job. 2) GOEs and training as mentioned by Wong is legitimately a huge problem. It puzzles me to this day that ISU wants to decrease the BV on jumps, but hey, let's just go with +5 GOEs. Hello, did they miss their own memo of what makes up the TES score? @Aotoshiro mentioned this, and I know it was joked about earlier, but seriously, train judges with a scoring board panel that asks them to check which bullet points are met. Then let the computer do the computation. There are only a couple guys and gals now a days whom I think should legitimately get the +2 and +3 GOEs for jumps. Most skaters are at the +0 and +1 range on GOEs for jumps. If we speak of only of jumps, consider that there's about 10 jumps distributed across SP and LP (after men's LP time change), we're looking at about 5-15 points shaved off of TES alone on this. Would this possibly bring some balance? Oh maybe, maybe.... 3) Don't necessarily agree with him about punishing backloading. Backloading does work for some programs and as a strategy, it is a risky strategy. Most skaters don't have the stamina to really backload like Zagi or Kostornaia, and as a strategy it could be used by a person who doesn't have that many quads (with good GOEs, a backloaded triple A might catch up). Before complaining about backloading strategy as "bad on principle" try to watch some of the programs that do backload (Kostornaia is good, and Zagi's recent RUS nationals LP was better executed). Usually only a very narrow corridor of music options exist, the music and program has to follow a very specific pattern, and it might be more true that many skaters won't do this since the options are too narrow to fit their skating style. Furthermore, the backloading drain to stamina will cause issues elsewhere-CO/PE/IN probably won't be perfect if the program is not executed well. So until we see a not well executed fully backloaded program get perfect scores, I'm not getting the pitchforks out yet. As far as I'm concerned, I want to give skaters and their teams the full freedom to execute whatever potential strategy/program they see fit. 4) I don't get spin levels from point 4 of Wong's article, but generally, just um No. If you can rippon like Rippon all the time and make it fit and look good in a program, then why kill it? You can factor in the boring/ad nauseum factor elsewhere, like PE/CO/IN perhaps? Movements just for the sake of bullet points which make no meaningful contribution to the piece as a whole, nor fit with the music should be considered distractions in the PE/CO/IN of the program. Also...isn't there a bullet for the jump fitting the music? Why not just withold that bullet if the tano/rippon is meangingless to the music? I also get the rippon variations in Zagi's program (it's more fitting for a ballet inspired piece than normal jump arms), but won't get into it in details now. 5) Tunnel/corridor judging: @liv mentioned this already, but again, this is a bigger problem. Part of the inflation, I wonder if it goes back to the premise that figure skating scores need PCS and TES to be balanced at 50/50, that somehow judges cannot just live with the idea that a skater might legitmately be a jumper and less an artist- so they will just "manually" balance it. And while I personally can see some leeway given for quads programs versus an all triples programs, that does not mean a quads program can get away with significantly less transitions-maybe a 35 transitions program that is all triples could get say 8.75 TR, and the same score could be given to a quads program with 32 transitions. But that number should not be such a huge difference that is currently occuring in the scores. And if you do have "empty" boring programs that are just jump after jump with very little expressive transitions, but stil okay SteqSequence, you could still give 9's for SS, but feel free to Ding on the TR, PE, Co and IN- give 8's because that program deserved an 8 on those scores. Similarily, you could have skaters who don't have as many TR, or deep edges, but are so musical and expressive (Sasha anyone?), then give the darn 8's on SS and TR, and give the 9.5's on PE/CO/IN. There are skaters who lean one-way or the other in their styles, why not just recognize it as such that not everyone is a perfectly balanced TES-PCS entity (yes Yuzu, you are a space entity). Skaters themselves recognize it anyways. All the above, if implemented could actually potentially stablize the scores before we get into PCS co-efficients and BV changes. Many skaters will likely see their TES drop by quite a margin, and the scores for many skaters will not have artistry scores and technical scores perfectly balanced. But that's FINE-because to a degree, that premise was based on a) that technical development can be easily contained scoring wise; b) that all skaters can obtain that ideal balance. In so far as that premise is wrong, we may never see balance in the scores, which is a realistic assement of what happens in skating. And really...how many skaters score high on both scores? Not that many, and probably even less once we actually apply the rules.

couldn't.even find ghana in the 7-11s here....

Wishing everyone a Happy New Year! May this half of the season be good, healthy, kind and kuyashii-less! (Yes I know that last one might be hard to achieve, but none the less, one can hope right?)

@kelly I'm sorry I'm late. My tablet and photoshop decided to hate each other, so I somehow managed to locate really old traditional stuff and semi-complete it this way. Wishing you and your swan prince a belated Merry Christmas, and a Happy New Year! I'll probably redo the second picture at some point.. To those going "Where are the quad ladies?!" Um...I'm doing some research for them....imperial clothing is haaarrrddd.

Oh my lords! XD Thank you!This is so cute!

Okay, because we haven't flipped over to 2018 yet, the disaster first half isn't over yet? Let's um, delay this season by a year, yeah?

Oh I love the bit about bit by bit filtering out impurities! Has anyone here seen any documentaries about the process of making katanas and how the hard steel used is a laborius process that can take days. It's as if they are alluding to Yuzu being a swordsmith, hammering away at his skating like an artisan would at the tamahagone, till the purest and hardest steel is achieved. So in the end you get the most beautiful sword (skating), strong yet supple, effortless all as one. =)

Oh, backwards lunge? Yeah, it's the same as the fowards, just you're going backwards. >_> The balance is a bit harder, because you might want to lean too forward on your blade (but you can't do that or you hit your toepicks). And Pattern99 toepicks are huge and scary.

Wait, so based on that article, he's had ankle issues naturally since he was a kid? I hope that was a mistranslation. As for the lunge: -A normal lunge is similar to the lunge steps you perform for sports. You have one bent leg taking on your weight, and a leg dragging behind you with foot turned to the side. If you want to exaggerate it, you can flatten your free leg downwards till all parts below the knee are laid flat on the ice. -The lunge that Yuzu does is called a pistol lunge I think? It's a lot harder, because instead of putting your free foot flat against the ice, your free leg is turned outwards, so your legs are now essentially turned out about 180 degrees. Your free foot's blade is on the ice. I've tried it, and got about 2 feet before my legs gave out, I tripped over the back tip of my free foot's blade and hurt my tailbone, since falling means sitting straight down with your legs in a horizontal split position. Um, at some point he did groceries...does that count?

I feel like this thread is going to murder people eventually. Good news: my tablet decided to NOT cooperate with photoshop. So my murder attempts will need a couple more days. Q_Q

That would kill me. Or they can sing Hana wa Saku. If he did requiem again, maybe a slight upgrade to the costume. Green is fine, but maybe a bit lighter...I wonder if an outfit closer to the Hope one, with draped necklines and floaty sleeves (only shades of green to white) would be nice?

I just think it embodies the essence of his skating. Not sure if any other skater, male or female alike, can really do that music justice.

Nah, I don't think he'll bring Nessie out yet. It's not something necessary for this season yet....after the +5/-5 GOE system comes into place, with the reduced time and less jumping passes, he might consider it depending on how the GOE points get rewarded. If GOEs are as chaotic as it has been this season....he might bring it out, especially if PCs scores continue their upward trajectory. As for his health, I trust that his team knows what to do. The issue now is a) he is older, and won't recover as quickly as youngsters; b) he hurt a part that doesn't heal as cleanly, so it'll take longer than he originally expected (not super long, but still 1-2 weeks longer than his prognosis in Nov is expected), ligaments and muscles can take longer than bones, simply because they are more supple and used all the darn time (never really in rest). But what he does have is just so many more years of muscle memory as backup versus the younger guys- that's why Nobu said he won't take that long to recover his quads. I wonder if he can even do double jumps now, because I can imagine his muscle memories taking up directly up to triples. I don't know if Yuzu is really "sidelined"- it's just that versus a couple years ago, with all the quads all the men are less consistent. And this cycle, we've got more good skaters all within scoring range of each other. This is something that frankly, hasn't been seen for a LONG while. Usually in the men's field, you have 1-2 frontrunners, but this cycle, there's 6. Yuzu is still the "one to beat" since all the media narrative focus on the necessity of winning over him. It's just that relative to say, Plushenko era, Yagudin era, you don't have as much a gap between the top 6 men anymore. And it's a good thing- it means skating has evolved so much more.

Nah I think 4A isn't part of this season's plan, this season was to be 4Lz, and if he was feeling lucky/plucky/silly a yolo 4Lz-2T. But I think that was a typo, because the rest of the sentence said "multiple quadruples." And regarding 4A...I've been saying princess 4A for a while, but what if 4A ends up being a boy? o_O The emperor has to have a heir at some point? Well, using that weird hologram imagery thingy...for a good delayed 4A would he need an additional 5 cm height and maybe an additional 20 cm distance? That would make the height difference exceed his hair...though maybe if the antenna is up it is just his hair length.

Well, you could do back 3-turn-4A, back counter-4A, maybe a spread-eagle 4A twizzle sandwich?

(I'm at work so I really shouldn't, but Sengoku Basara anime's Date Masamune is how I'd envision quad Lutz to look and act like...) Um...well I guess he can't really mess up on Febreezing a shirt...he forgot to do a back scratch spin when febreezing though.

Question for everyone: I'm currently listening to The Imitation Game soundtrack (https://youtu.be/KXiTSdSN79I) There are a couple skaters whom I think this might fit. Some parts might fit Yuzu, but it could also work for Kaori, Mai and maaaybe even Boyang. The way the music is accented, I think the speed of the above skaters would work. Also, trying to see if something could work with Interstellar. The piece "No Time for Caution" (how appropriate if he brings out Nessie), is exactly 4 mins: https://youtu.be/m3zvVGJrTP8

OMG, your mom is awesome! She just wants you to have sweet dreams when you sleep. Or maybe guardian Yuzu can now chase off all the nightmares with his quad army! (okay, another concept, Sengoku quads...T_T) And Happy Birthday too!

Ah, I didn't know that you learned all your spins that way. I didn't, and a lot of teachers here don't teach that. The issue I found with some of the students just learning spins, is if they do the proper wind-up, what they usually do is that they raise or hunch their shoulders when entering into the spin-right as they lift their free leg up for the first position, their shoulder moves, becomes uneven, unbalanced, and that throws everything off. The beach ball/balloon image, even if you wind up you can try to hold it a bit more rounded, is to help keep your arms even and prevent shoulders rising. The basics of the sal look alright, and more importantly you got the rhythm right for the launch. =) With time and a bit more speed and guts, you should be able to launch up for a bigger salchow. Edit: you guys have guts to get your skating filmed. I'm such a coward. XD

@gladi: That banner is beautiful! Thank you and everyone involved for organizing such a massive project of support. Hope Yuzu likes the banner-and each time he feels down, he can go wrap himself in those 7 meters and roll around until he feels better. =) @Yatagarasu: you got mentioned, so thank you too for keeping everyone sane! (And cats as QA managers are totally appropriate )

Hi there. I don't know if this would help, but for both sit spins and uprights, maybe you can try to hold your arms out a bit differently. The way most people enter into the spins, during the wind-up edge before you step in, you would have your right arm out and back a bit further, and your left arm swinging to be in front of you right? Instead of winding-up your arms, maybe hold your arms out in a rounded 160-180 degree. Kind of like you are holding a giant giant beach ball/balloon on your left side. In short, your arms are going to be open on your left side, not winding up. It was how I learned my sit spins. XD And it helps a bit with holding the step-in edge to a good half circle before I start spinning. I also find it easier to center too.

Hi guys, just a general question. When seeing the ladies protocols, maybe it's just me, but it feels like ladies generally receive less points in avg PCs scores (individual components, not the total score) than their male counterparts, even amongst those who scored in the top 6 at Helsinki. I could be wrong in my impressions, but if I'm not, is there a reason why? I thought skating skills were just skating skills, and would have expected some higher numbers there from the top 6 at least. For Co/PE/IN, kind of the same question, even though in general, don't ladies tend to excel at that more than the men?

I will apologize to my Santa in advance. This thingy is taking me longer than I originally intended, and I have new ideas coming in all the time. T_T

@kiches : your avatar....it's perfect for Christmas. But careful of killing people with the nyan. It's already Dec 25th here, so here's to a happy holidays to all satellites! To Yuzu, if you are lurking here- just rest up and do your best. You've got nothing to lose, and sometimes it is that fearlessness that's is needed for us to achieve our ideals. We have faith in your training, just let it do its job. =) Other than that, have a merry Christmas, and a joyous New year! Now, on the quad ladies harem side. They are actually celebrating (or trying to) Xmas due to Lady 4Lutz's foreign influence. She kind of dropped it with only a 3 day advanced notice. Empress 3Axel decided it's not too bad, and immediately sent all the triple jump servants to work, cooking up a proper xmas dinner and decorating the entire court. Naturally the streamers are gold at Empress 3Axel's insistence. While the party was a last minute notice, Lady 4Salchow did happen to have a decently sized bonsai that could be somewhat configured to resemble a Christmas Tree. Lady 4T contributed by making all the decorations needed for the Xmas-bonsai. Even Lady 4Loop came out of her rooms to grace everyone with her presence-and we found out she actually has an amazing singing voice, since she regaled the court with a string of carols.

Yes to this. So far, this season is just weird. It's a bit like 05/06 lead up to Torino, only the guys in second and third (in men's at least) haven't gone clean in the absence of the guy who normally wins GPF. If anything, the Olys is the only time we'll see how the guys truly stack against each other, and where experience and the ability to handle pressure plays a larger part. In Yuzu's case, he can just go for it-of all the guys, he has nothing to lose. Anything he does is just icing on the cake. This somewhat applies to Patrick and Javi too, less to Boyang. But the other quadsters (Shoma, Nate) all have far too much to prove, and it seems to be affecting them a lot.