7 hours ago, yuzupon said:

Just watch it again. More lenient tech panel would not have given it a UR call. 

I am also pretty sure the edge on that 3F is inside.

But, ok. I'm letting that go for now. Too happy.

 

It was, just like her SP 3F. One can argue not as inside as Kaoris Lutz edge, but, ehm...

When it comes to the rotation calls, this TP really did a good job IMO - but their calls regarding edges were ridiculous. Mai got 2 !s for 3Fs that were from an inside edge, Dabins 3Lz has an outside edge but got a ! too, and Kaoris Lutz (much as I love her) is in all but name a 3rd flip, yet it got no call (and +1.3 GOE - slightly higher then Mais 3Lz3T combo X_x). And I'd really love to be happy with a TP for once, but what on earth did they do there? D= These changes alone would have been enough to give Mai the title...

Outside that, I'm quite happy with the judging. I agree that despite the fall, Satoko should have had a bit more on PCS (though really not that much for me, 1-2 points), but then I also think her jump GOE are... wild. Outside the < & fallen jumps, she scored better on her jumps then Mai did (oh, and not on the 2A, Mai got a whopping 0.07 more there...). So to me, it kind of equals out. Kaori deserves all the jump GOE and has so much energy when she skates, she just lights up the rink. I'd have reversed the top 2 placements but both girls did amazing, and I'm happy they got to share a podium together like this. Their smiles were just so heartwarming and lovely

(And I will also readily admit that the main reason I'm sad Mai didn't win is that this was her last major event of the season. Later Senior B aside, this was basically the "highlight of the season" for her, and I'd have been so happy had she managed to defend her title)

 

Regarding Satoko, I'm sorry she has to fight another injury, and that the skates here didn't go as she wanted them too. I've been complaining about the lack of UR calls for her all season, and I'm very glad she was fairly called here, but I really didn't want to see her fall or in tears. And she's someone who's always way too harsh on herself... honestly, why did her team let her compete here at all? She didn't need 4CC for anything. And then they know she already had severe injuries from over training, she just had 3 comps super close to each other (SA - GPF - Nats) and will have the Olympics and the Olympic team event up super soon. WTF?! It was IMO an unnecessary risk for her to be here in the 1st place, but with pain showing up after nationals? That was some real "pathetic" judgement there... and hopefully Satoko will manage to put this behind her and get some rest. If her foot still troubles her when the Olympics come or she lets it affect her mentally, this could really make thing difficult for her. Please heal well Satoko (and all other skaters too!) and don't be so hard on yourself

I was wondering why Satoko would compete as well unless she just wanted to compete as much as possible and was hoping to get some momentum heading into Olys, or maybe the Federation wanted her to be here. She had the National title, time to rest, and then time to push for the Olympics... and instead she skated here not 100%, without confidence, she distressed herself with her skate and got marks that are more discouraging than otherwise... not a wise move by TPTB. Teams from NA sent their non Olympic athletes and while that makes sense because of distance and scheduling, TJ should have made exceptions as well, particularly for someone still bothered by injury.

 

 

2 hours ago, Joey said:

One can argue not as inside as Kaoris Lutz edge, but, ehm...

Joining you in thisWe'll become the much less happy/sane/sober puppy pile by PC.

Watched the top 3 again.. and I do think Mai could've won but I don't think it was such an egregious robbery (the gap between her overall score and Kaori's should've been smaller than 3.64 though). Satton should've had a higher PCS gap between her and Kaori but not that much with Mai (maybe it's blasphemy but I do think the gap between Satton's SS and Mai's is not that too far off and I would give PE to Mai while Satton gets higher IN). Tech panel was very harsh with Mai's protocols (I don't see the UR on the Lutz and the flip edge was correct) while Kaori's flutz wasn't called... All in all, a good comp with decent scoring compared to every other competition in the season so far... I'm just annoyed that decent scoring happens in a competition where a lot of Asians compete but not where Europeans do (Euro scoring was wild!) and this worries me about how the JPN ladies will be scored at Olys and Worlds.

 

I'd like to give a shoutout to the Kobe girls coaching team. They have the best strategy/packaging, especially for the FS - Mai is ethereal and graceful while Kaori is athletic and whimsical and their FS reflects those strengths. If tech panel weren't being idiots Mai's SP should've been very competitive since she has both Lz and F (with no edge issues despite what protocols say) while Kaori wisely avoids the Lz (take note Wakababy's team) but backloads all the jumps.

 

I'm sad for Mai. I love Kaori, but Mai's edges look better to me. Mai's skating appeals more to me. And her jump edges are correct, wtf, does politicking now get you wrong calls for the right edges, as well as right calls for the wrong edges?! And I do not want to see Kaori keep that flutz for all of her career because she's not called on it. Even Zhenya gets called ! (even if it's usually an obvious e). Kaori should get her edges called, too, because I want to see her develop into a skater with beautiful edges.

 

I wish we could have complete transparency for judging, because of all the girls in the field now, Mai is the one with the actual arsenal to challenge the Russian girls. And anybody claiming Mai deserves lower PCS than any of them except Zhenya - that too this season when Zhenya has improved very much - can go shove their head in a bucket. But the JSF expects Rika to come up and challenge, and have ignored Mai so badly.

 

But congrats to Kaori because she deserves all the appreciation. Her nerves rival Zhenya's. Her jumps are so sure, and she looks like she is absolutely doing what she's meant to be doing out on the ice. She has so much charisma for one so young.

Rather distressing, click on your own risk.

Alice again, on those calls of Mai's jumps. There's a bit of PCS discussion as well.

 

the calls on mai's jumps werent even harsh anymore, its just plain wrong. her 3lz wasnt ur to me  if she got 76 like she should have she couldve defend her title  anyway, i'm still happy that this will give kaori a boost in her momentum going into PC.

9 hours ago, WinForPooh said:

But the JSF expects Rika to come up and challenge, and have ignored Mai so badly.

 

Well that's better then what I'm dreading tbh, Rika being robbed too "xD (she was IMO already, of the national title this season).

 

But I agree that Mai was so overlooked this season, when she could have really rivaled some top ladies had she gotten the support. The best overall lady Japan has is still Waka for me (and she's still younger then Kaori & Mai too!), but Mai has proven to be good in anything - can rotate her jumps usually, clean edges, way improved programs & performance, has delivered when it counted (5th place at her debut WC is amazing!). I really don't get why JSF isn't supporting her more. And then I'm honestly terrified given her illness history that that might come back and take her from us in the next years. So I will just pray for her to stay healthy and continue improving, being a lovely person, and giving us great skates like here at 4CC

55 minutes ago, Joey said:

 

Well that's better then what I'm dreading tbh, Rika being robbed too "xD (she was IMO already, of the national title this season).

 

But I agree that Mai was so overlooked this season, when she could have really rivaled some top ladies had she gotten the support. The best overall lady Japan has is still Waka for me (and she's still younger then Kaori & Mai too!), but Mai has proven to be good in anything - can rotate her jumps usually, clean edges, way improved programs & performance, has delivered when it counted (5th place at her debut WC is amazing!). I really don't get why JSF isn't supporting her more. And then I'm honestly terrified given her illness history that that might come back and take her from us in the next years. So I will just pray for her to stay healthy and continue improving, being a lovely person, and giving us great skates like here at 4CC

I love Wakababy, too. I hope she gets that 3A good enough for competition soon! But Mai has, I think, more mental strength at the moment. Wakababy looked absolutely and understandably discouraged at Nationals. Mai came back so strong after being underscored blatantly all season. I hope Wakaba can at Worlds, too. Wakaba is younger, she will become stronger. And fix that Flip, hopefully, because the ! calls for her are usually justified. The two girls have very different personalities on the ice, but they're both memorable in their own ways. I love watching them both skate. But I love Mai a little bit more. I'm so happy she had those two clean skates. I hope she will have many more and we can watch her skate for many years! And get the scores she deserves

 

I think Rika might be robbed if JSF doesn't have the influence. Her 3A is fairly stable, rotated and reliable, and doesn't derail the rest of the programme after she lands it. Carrying Mao Asada's legacy forward and all that - I think they'll try to boost her. Going by this season, JSF's influence is unpredictable!

I find the Japanese broadcast versions very interesting because of their tech tracker that allows one to see elements that have been marked for review. People wondered why Kaori's 3Lz wasn't called ! or e? Because it wasn't marked for review in the first place. Check at 4:02, how the 3Lz doesn't turn pink at the top, which is indication of an element being marked by the tech specialist to be reviewed. If it's not flagged, it doesn't get reviewed, hence no call. 

 

 

 

That's interesting because Kaori only got no edge calls for her Lutz at SA 2017. She had an [e] at COR 2017 and an [!] at JNats. Honestly, I feel like they should develop better camera/technology for TP to be able to review all the jumps without taking too much time for scoring; that way it's fair for everyone. I feel like that one time Mai's flip edge was in question made her a target for TP to just mark her flip... /sigh/

On 26/1/2018 at 8:30 PM, Aotoshiro said:

Stomach upset which ruled him out of GPF with his final standing at Cup of Disasters.

Nasakenai is in negative light translated as pathetic, but Jisho gives me also the "miserable, pitiable, shameful and deplorable" as other meanings, so it could basically mean that this was a bit of pitiable performance/competition. Plus she doesn't state "this is pitiable", just "pitiable" in itself, so it can be everything, from skating, to overal situation. (but the grammar states that it was said to Satoko by her coach, or that's how Satoko recalls it. Knowing Satton, she probably thought it's about her...though she's been with Hamada for quite long time so I doubt her coach would make such a simple miscommunication mistake.)

 

Yeah, I think 'pathetic' is a wrong translation because it doesn't calculate that, in English, 'pathetic' is often used as an insult towards people, more than a comment regarding a situation or a certain fact. Meanwhile, the word 情けない I've never heard it used to insult someone in Japanese (although my experience is very limited, I do have fun having these discussions so) and even if the coach used it towards Satoko, it doesn't necessarily mean that they were describing Satoko at all. In this case, 情けない　could maybe be the 'harder' synonim for 残念? A shameful situation, so, not ideal, a pity. It's a very different translation from 'it's pathetic'. 

 

Edit: I just realized the discussion was already over. Oh, well. I'm satisfied with my ability to follow it 

36 minutes ago, Murieleirum said:

 

Yeah, I think 'pathetic' is a wrong translation because it doesn't calculate that, in English, 'pathetic' is often used as an insult towards people, more than a comment regarding a situation or a certain fact. Meanwhile, the word 情けない I've never heard it used to insult someone in Japanese (although my experience is very limited, I do have fun having these discussions so) and even if the coach used it towards Satoko, it doesn't necessarily mean that they were describing Satoko at all. In this case, 情けない　could maybe be the 'harder' synonim for 残念? A shameful situation, so, not ideal, a pity. It's a very different translation from 'it's pathetic'. 

 

Edit: I just realized the discussion was already over. Oh, well. I'm satisfied with my ability to follow it 

You're watching too little sports/shounen anime then xD

 

And don't worry, I usually end up bringing topics that were discussed like, ten pages ago too (doesn't help that average of General chat is actually ten pages a day...>.<)

1 hour ago, kaeryth said:

That's interesting because Kaori only got no edge calls for her Lutz at SA 2017. She had an [e] at COR 2017 and an [!] at JNats. Honestly, I feel like they should develop better camera/technology for TP to be able to review all the jumps without taking too much time for scoring; that way it's fair for everyone. I feel like that one time Mai's flip edge was in question made her a target for TP to just mark her flip... /sigh/

 

Mai's calls on her FS were completely bogus. Especially the unclear edge on the 3F. But tech panels just have access to one camera, which is not any of the ones we see the FS through, so their angles are probably different from ours.

 

I do think that if someone has a proclivity for wrong edges, they should be scrutinized more often. I suspect neither Kaetlyn or Zhenya have their 3Lz often marked for review and their Flutz are blatant too.

7 minutes ago, Aotoshiro said:

You're watching too little sports/shounen anime then xD

 

And don't worry, I usually end up bringing topics that were discussed like, ten pages ago too (doesn't help that average of General chat is actually ten pages a day...>.<)

 

That's only now that our overlord is ninja-ing. Otherwise it'd be more.