General Skating Chat

[EisElle]

3 hours ago, FlyingCamel said:

Not sure if senior GP will go as well  

OUCH x1000 (Will I arrive to 1 million buy the end of the year?)

Not surprising, and entirely understandable, and finally a good call form ISU. Still sucks, and I'm not even the one who's gettin her career messed up 

I'm especially sorry for Kao who was unlucky (not only by his own faut) last JGP and won't get a chance now. Wondering how Shun is going to go sr too... and I guess UtaShn will keep training in Japan I'm sure they'll get coaching in Japan too, but it won't be the same as training under direct supervision of their TCC team. I guess Rika will postpone whatever agreement she had with TCC too, Jun will stay in Korea and Zhenya will keep working in CSKA rink... I guess Katya Kurakova is still in Poland too, right?

And I hope Zuzu isn't wilding too much. I trust him to keep training in a fruitful way(Brian repeatedly said he was mostly doing the plans himself anyway, and he kinda managed those GPF practice, even with the Nessi wildin'), but I'm sure he misses the atmosphere of his training base   On a lighter note, I hope he remembers to also train his spins, sometimes    (and that he remembered to check the spin level changes)

 

 

I hope young skaters get a chance to compete domestically at least, and always crossing fingers that 2021 won't suck and some of them will be able to join the jr division of some events in January/Feb/....

 

for small feds skaters, things will be so difficult... though I guess small feds in Europe might still manage better than most, between higher chances for travelling within Europe and the many small int comps that are hosted here

 

 

now let's wait for the next announcement...

[Paskud]

........... Then for what was communication from last week?

[Fay]

2 minutes ago, Paskud said:

........... Then for what was communication from last week?

Do you really expect ISU to be consistent? Come on! 

[Paskud]

1 hour ago, Fay said:

Do you really expect ISU to be consistent? Come on! 

my bad

[TallyT]

I am so sorry for the kids for which this would be their last year as a junior, as they build up to the big move to seniors.

 

.

[EisElle]

8 hours ago, Paskud said:

........... Then for what was communication from last week?

to stir more drama? was it a draft that was sent the wrong recipients again? Or did they just want people to talk more about them so they can get more "impressions"?

[Paskud]

ACI is postponed.

https://skatecanada.ca/event-schedule/

[SitTwizzle]

4 minutes ago, Paskud said:

ACI is postponed.

https://skatecanada.ca/event-schedule/

Postponed, not cancelled? It will be I suppose.

[Songster01]

12 hours ago, SitTwizzle said:

Postponed, not cancelled? It will be I suppose.

 

ACI might be re-tooled as a domestic event to give Canadian skaters mileage, but I'm guessing it's more likely they'll keep it international to allow the small number of foreign skaters a chance to compete in a lower-stakes event nearby.

 

I can't see it being open to fans regardless this fall. We can't predict where we'll be in the GTA, which alongside Windsor-Essex, remains the most active area in the province, case-wise.  Numbers are already creeping up (over 200 yesterday) and that's before the entire province moves to Stage 3 (Toronto is waiting for example) and schools open.  Moreover, the newest report (came out yesterday) on the aerosolization of the virus underlines the danger of putting many screaming people into an indoor venue without lots of open windows or top-of-the-line filtration systems: https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1285465200502755328?s=20  If a Harvard epidemiologist is concerned, then we need to pay attention.  Masks would help, but the aerosolized virus can hang in the air for hours and go through cloth masks, which is what many ordinary people in Ontario have atm.  Not worth the risk to the athletes, their teams, and the volunteers of all kinds there to have fans present. 

[SitTwizzle]

5 hours ago, Songster01 said:

 

ACI might be re-tooled as a domestic event to give Canadian skaters mileage, but I'm guessing it's more likely they'll keep it international to allow the small number of foreign skaters a chance to compete in a lower-stakes event nearby.

 

I can't see it being open to fans regardless this fall. We can't predict where we'll be in the GTA, which alongside Windsor-Essex, remains the most active area in the province, case-wise.  Numbers are already creeping up (over 200 yesterday) and that's before the entire province moves to Stage 3 (Toronto is waiting for example) and schools open.  Moreover, the newest report (came out yesterday) on the aerosolization of the virus underlines the danger of putting many screaming people into an indoor venue without lots of open windows or top-of-the-line filtration systems: https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1285465200502755328?s=20  If a Harvard epidemiologist is concerned, then we need to pay attention.  Masks would help, but the aerosolized virus can hang in the air for hours and go through cloth masks, which is what many ordinary people in Ontario have atm.  Not worth the risk to the athletes, their teams, and the volunteers of all kinds there to have fans present. 

Thank you for the info on the likeliness.

As to aerosols in the atmosphere, new research try to quantify and this one is certainly interesting, but the principles are already known. My husband explained me how the air convection worked in a skating rink/arena (I wrote it in General Yuzuru Chat if I remember well), and that it needed a ceiling "wall"/obstacle to protect athletes from receiving the attendance' aerosols when at the centre of the rink where they would concentrate otherwise. But with this caveat, usually the volume of air is huge in an arena, it circulates well, and if it is not infectious at the beginning of the session, it is not very far from open air gathering.

Masks, even fabric ones (well, maybe not that much, those single-layered jersey ones, but still), do suppress the big drops we send on surfaces, and diminish the number of very small ones, those that don't fall but stay in the air and can contaminate by inhalation, depending on people' condition and contaminated aerosol density.

This being said, screaming is clearly a factor of risk and should be forbidden unless very high safety is achieved otherwise, because so many aerosols go out of the mask with the difference in pressure. This is why I suggested humming instead.

And all need careful calculation. I should like so much Skate Canada should have learnt from the Worlds saga, and be able to ask knowledgeable people or organisations to do it, and advise such or such venue, measures... or an attendance-free competition. I hope we will do well in Grenoble. The skating rink there depends on the city's "communauté de communes" (association of towns of the urban area), whose president is a chemistry professor (who can take a Gold plastic medal for a Bronze, I know this is not a very good beginning  ), I hope they will do things well.

[Paskud]

Quote

In case that due to the Covid-19 pandemic an extended number of Competitions are cancelled during the fall 2020 and consequently does not allow Competitors to reach the required Minimum Technical Element Scores, the Council will review the situation in regard to the Minimum Total Elements Score again at the time of the October Council meeting.

https://www.isu.org/inside-isu/isu-communications/communications/24775-isu-communication-2336/file

[Songster01]

On 7/22/2020 at 7:21 AM, SitTwizzle said:

Thank you for the info on the likeliness.

As to aerosols in the atmosphere, new research try to quantify and this one is certainly interesting, but the principles are already known. My husband explained me how the air convection worked in a skating rink/arena (I wrote it in General Yuzuru Chat if I remember well), and that it needed a ceiling "wall"/obstacle to protect athletes from receiving the attendance' aerosols when at the centre of the rink where they would concentrate otherwise. But with this caveat, usually the volume of air is huge in an arena, it circulates well, and if it is not infectious at the beginning of the session, it is not very far from open air gathering.

Masks, even fabric ones (well, maybe not that much, those single-layered jersey ones, but still), do suppress the big drops we send on surfaces, and diminish the number of very small ones, those that don't fall but stay in the air and can contaminate by inhalation, depending on people' condition and contaminated aerosol density.

This being said, screaming is clearly a factor of risk and should be forbidden unless very high safety is achieved otherwise, because so many aerosols go out of the mask with the difference in pressure. This is why I suggested humming instead.

And all need careful calculation. I should like so much Skate Canada should have learnt from the Worlds saga, and be able to ask knowledgeable people or organisations to do it, and advise such or such venue, measures... or an attendance-free competition. I hope we will do well in Grenoble. The skating rink there depends on the city's "communauté de communes" (association of towns of the urban area), whose president is a chemistry professor (who can take a Gold plastic medal for a Bronze, I know this is not a very good beginning  ), I hope they will do things well.

 

Speaking specifically of the Sixteen Mile Road venue hosting ACI, Oakville is in Halton Region, which happily finally joined Toronto in making masks mandatory in public indoor spaces on the 22nd.  So that could help _IF_ people wear them properly and extra security is hired to make sure people keep them on properly, none of the uncovered noses and mouths nonsense, which I do see quite often unfortunately, despite the signs showing proper coverage.  Also specific to the Oakville rink: on the pro side the hockey glass could protect the skaters from fans' breath in the lower seats.  On the con side: people sitting higher up would face no wall.  And this study of an outbreak at a German meatpacking plant showed the virus had no problem moving more than 8m in a cold space with minimal ventilation and no filtration in the HVAC:
https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1286684497363247104?cxt=HHwWgIC1tfaunNsjAAAA  The Sixteen Mile venue is newish, but how good is its filtration (if any exists!) and ventilation?  There are only two narrow exits to the main arena that might provide some very limited and localized ventilation since they open into another cool space typically full of people at ACI.  So although proper masks would definitely be helpful in keeping the viral load down, when you'd have a packed space full of people yelling for a non-essential activity, like fans attending sports and performing arts, I would still not want to risk it personally.  While one might hope for rigorous compliance by Skate Canada, I don't have enough trust in skating feds to take care of people's safety.  Hoping SC learned their lesson after Worlds re: fans and safety, is basically just that, a hope.  They will talk a good game and might have decent control of athletes, their teams, and volunteers/staff when they enter the arena, but regarding the handling of fans the proof is in how they would control their behavior and facilitate good hygiene.  And we have no good examples to point to point to, since Worlds rightly was cancelled.  I recall both years I attended ACI in Oakville that security had a problem going after illegal cameras.  They would definitely need more people to patrol the long lines and then the entire stands regularly to take care of people not following mask guidelines. 

 

Anyway, if the province maintains its Stage 2-3 guidelines (Halton is moving to Stage 3 this week), which would mean a maximum of 50 people indoors, fans are not a viable financial prospect for ACI.  Not enough allowed inside to be considered viable, thanks to the costs incurred by fans' attendance.  In fact, it's likely the athletes/their teams/rink staff/volunteers surpass that number anyway and would have to be staggered indoors (perhaps set up tents outside for overflow of essential folks?).  The province has said it plans to maintain Stage 3 until a vaccine arrives here, and hopefully they will keep their word.  So ACI without fans seems like the best to hope for in this province, unless the situation materially changes for the better regarding the pandemic.

 

[SitTwizzle]

On 7/24/2020 at 7:51 PM, Songster01 said:

 

Speaking specifically of the Sixteen Mile Road venue hosting ACI, Oakville is in Halton Region, which happily finally joined Toronto in making masks mandatory in public indoor spaces on the 22nd.  So that could help _IF_ people wear them properly and extra security is hired to make sure people keep them on properly, none of the uncovered noses and mouths nonsense, which I do see quite often unfortunately, despite the signs showing proper coverage.  Also specific to the Oakville rink: on the pro side the hockey glass could protect the skaters from fans' breath in the lower seats.  On the con side: people sitting higher up would face no wall.  And this study of an outbreak at a German meatpacking plant showed the virus had no problem moving more than 8m in a cold space with minimal ventilation and no filtration in the HVAC:
https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1286684497363247104?cxt=HHwWgIC1tfaunNsjAAAA  The Sixteen Mile venue is newish, but how good is its filtration (if any exists!) and ventilation?  There are only two narrow exits to the main arena that might provide some very limited and localized ventilation since they open into another cool space typically full of people at ACI.  So although proper masks would definitely be helpful in keeping the viral load down, when you'd have a packed space full of people yelling for a non-essential activity, like fans attending sports and performing arts, I would still not want to risk it personally.  While one might hope for rigorous compliance by Skate Canada, I don't have enough trust in skating feds to take care of people's safety.  Hoping SC learned their lesson after Worlds re: fans and safety, is basically just that, a hope.  They will talk a good game and might have decent control of athletes, their teams, and volunteers/staff when they enter the arena, but regarding the handling of fans the proof is in how they would control their behavior and facilitate good hygiene.  And we have no good examples to point to point to, since Worlds rightly was cancelled.  I recall both years I attended ACI in Oakville that security had a problem going after illegal cameras.  They would definitely need more people to patrol the long lines and then the entire stands regularly to take care of people not following mask guidelines. 

 

Anyway, if the province maintains its Stage 2-3 guidelines (Halton is moving to Stage 3 this week), which would mean a maximum of 50 people indoors, fans are not a viable financial prospect for ACI.  Not enough allowed inside to be considered viable, thanks to the costs incurred by fans' attendance.  In fact, it's likely the athletes/their teams/rink staff/volunteers surpass that number anyway and would have to be staggered indoors (perhaps set up tents outside for overflow of essential folks?).  The province has said it plans to maintain Stage 3 until a vaccine arrives here, and hopefully they will keep their word.  So ACI without fans seems like the best to hope for in this province, unless the situation materially changes for the better regarding the pandemic.

 

Those Plexiglas walls are meant to protect attendance against a puck (a child died in France a few years ago, only then they were made mandatory...) but given the sense of air convection, they would protect the attendance from a skaters contamination (quite unlikely anyway given the space and the number of skaters) while contaminated air from the attendance would go down on the skaters from the ceiling, unless there is an obstacle on this very ceiling.

If attendance is in such numbers given the volume of air, and the event so long, as to get a high concentration of droplets in the air, then ventilation WITH filtration becomes essential. Of course, in a meatpacking plant, there is very little air communication with outside to avoid... contamination of the meat (and in Germany they are quite good for this, maybe the best), and if there is no filtration, the virus gets good condition to spread. This is why all parameters must be carefully calculated before holding the event.

(Anyway I am 99% sure Yuzuru Hanyu will not be able to attend it this year.)

But if rules forbid more than 50 people in the venue, of course there will be no attendance (and no need of calculation if the air is clean before the event).

[rockstaryuzu]

On 7/22/2020 at 1:55 AM, Songster01 said:

ACI might be re-tooled as a domestic event to give Canadian skaters mileage, but I'm guessing it's more likely they'll keep it international to allow the small number of foreign skaters a chance to compete in a lower-stakes event nearby.

 

I can't see it being open to fans regardless this fall

Yeah, that's how I see it too. They'll figure out a way to do it without allowing spectators.

 

Good thing Skate Canada got in all that practice livestreaming competitions online last year. If they do hold any events this year, they'll at least be ready to share online. And while I'm not a fan of pay-per-view, I would gladly chip in a few bucks for a good online stream if helps SC run a COVID-safe event. 

[river]

The deadline for making a decision to cancel or to go ahead with Skate America is Friday, if the ISU holds to their 12 week rule.

 

I can't imagine how it could possibly go forward with the US (and Nevada in particular) being in the shape it's in (link to epidemiologic statistics for Nevada), but we should start seeing some decisions regarding the GP series in the next few weeks.