General Skating Chat

[Lunna]

10 часов назад, TallyT сказал:

Especially given that Roman, as Canadian national champion, possibly gets better funding than a lot of lower ranking skaters

I don't know how funding goes in Canada, as far as I heard even national champions and guys from the main team pay themselves almost for all. But maybe someone can correct me.

[Fay]

Guys, in case you feel like ranting, here’s some stuff for you. 

 

[rockstaryuzu]

On 5/29/2020 at 6:06 AM, Lunna said:

I don't know how funding goes in Canada, as far as I heard even national champions and guys from the main team pay themselves almost for all. But maybe someone can correct me.

I believe Nam has mentioned it in interviews. My understanding is, they have basic funding from Skate Canada for things like competition travel and for the rest there's this:

http://canadianathletesnow.ca/can-fund-stats/

https://skatecanada.ca/skate-canada-high-performance-grants/#:~:text=SKATE CANADA ATHLETE FUND,dance and synchronized skating teams.

 

Note that Skate Canada states that athletes can only receive one of the two programs - if they're getting a Sport Canada grant, they're not eligible for the Skate Canada one. So, basically they can get up to $21,100* each year, if they're a carded athlete (ie. senior elite, usually it's people who are top-ranked in the world, not just in Canada) plus travel expenses. 

 

Not exactly princely sums. IMO it would make more sense in the current situation for the provincial sports organizations to directly buy the ice time and donate it to the various clubs rather than fund individual athletes, but that's not exactly something that can happen quickly either. 

 

*to put this in perspective, the average rent for a bachelor (aka bedsit) apartment in Toronto just hit $1683/mo,  Good thing so many skaters live with their parents. 

 

 

 

[Paskud]

the audacity

https://www.isu.org/isu-news/news/145-news/13193-isu-statement-definite-cancellation-of-pending-2020-isu-championships-2?templateParam=15

[SitTwizzle]

1 hour ago, Paskud said:

the audacity

https://www.isu.org/isu-news/news/145-news/13193-isu-statement-definite-cancellation-of-pending-2020-isu-championships-2?templateParam=15

I don't see any relation between the title and the statement?

[mercedes]

1 hour ago, SitTwizzle said:

I don't see any relation between the title and the statement?

I guess somebody uploaded the article under the wrong link....anyhow lot's of nice words now let's see if the do something in practice!

[rubyblue]

1 hour ago, SitTwizzle said:

I don't see any relation between the title and the statement?

The relation is analogical to the relation between ISU and figure skating

[SitTwizzle]

10 minutes ago, mercedes said:

I guess somebody uploaded the article under the wrong link....anyhow lot's of nice words now let's see if the do something in practice!

Given their capacity to weigh on national federations for the nomination of competent, more or less impartial judges for figure skating, I think they may well speak a good deal, but I don't think anything will change, as to this date, ISU itself doesn't seem particularly racist, homophobic... as we could have examples recently among clubs, judges, probably federations... on which, from what @rockstaryuzu once said, ISU have very little power.

 

@rubyblue 

 

[rubyblue]

15 minutes ago, mercedes said:

I guess somebody uploaded the article under the wrong link....anyhow lot's of nice words now let's see if the do something in practice!

Lot's of nice empty words that mean nothing. Sorry for my pessimism, but I don't believe any real actions will be taken. PR game only. There were plenty of cases exposed in their own field just last year and ISU hasn't done anything so far. They are such cowards they did not even include sexual orientation in the list of discrimination factors in this beatiful statement, although it was major topic in FS environment last few weeks. I guess it belongs to "other status", too dificult to them to call things as they are.

I look forward to the moment when any of skating organizations will have a single one significant case of their actual support to anything to show as a proof before they publish any statement like that.

[sallycinnamon]

An interview with Leena Laaksonen who is one of the members of the singles & pairs technical committee.

"Skating needs a balance between technique and artistry"

 

Translated by google from Finnish to English, so sorry in advance if something is not quite clear.

 

Quote

The coronavirus closed the ice rinks and rescheduled the skaters ’schedules. It mercilessly demanded the cancellation of the World Championships and the postponement of the ISU Congress deciding on reforms for a year. On the waiting list, for example, the proposal of the technical committee for singles and pairs to change short and free programs to a technical and artistic program.

 

  - The whole committee hopes that we will create a balance between the technical and artistic level, says Leena Laaksonen, the Finnish member of the committee, chief judge and controller of the international championship level.

In singles and pairs, the programs become more difficult from season to season. In the ladies, quad jumping is starting to be part of the program of more and more skaters. Men have quad jumps even more varied. Yuzuru Hanyu, for example, is already known to be practicing fiercely the quadruple axel.

The technical development of the elements is tremendous, but Leena, known as an international controller, judge and trainer, thinks it should not be smoked too much.

 

There is room for technique to evolve

- Technical progress should not be strictly hampered, for example by limiting quadruple jumps. The species needs to be allowed to evolve, but balance is important. What is needed is both technique and performing and interpretive skills, and not just another, Leena emphasizes.

The Technical Committee for Singles and Pairs presents two different types of programs for the sport. The technical program would open the door to even more difficult elements. The second program, on the other hand, would focus on artistry and interpretation.

"There would be only one quad jump in the artistic program, and the other jumps would not be given as much value. This would give artistry, skating skills and music a greater status."

 

The proposal will be presented to Congress in a year's time. It is likely to provoke a heated debate among the representatives of the countries. However, the Committee emphasizes the importance of skating in its proposal.

- No matter how good a performing skater you are with the current rules, you will simply not be able to win and compensate for the point difference that the other achieves with the great quad jumps, even with the maximum points of the components. The aim is to balance this situation with an artistic program, Leena explains.

 

All on the same line

The virus has changed the way all skaters prepare for the season. Everyone is in the same situation.

In single skating, you can go through the off ice training, as in other springs. Pairs also do their off ice exercises and lifts outside the ice, but gaining confidence requires maintaining ice skills.

- When no ice has been reached at the beginning of the season, it is impossible to maintain sensitivity to ice. If you’ve been off the ice for a week, it feels like, Leena emphasizes.

She thinks the technical level of the programs may decline a little this season, and the species will not move forward at the same pace as in previous seasons.

  - Many newer elements now require more practice time, and work needs to be done to maintain the skill in the current elements as well. Also, the choreographies may not be renewed this year to the former model, or only another program will change. 

 

Video sessions to replace travel days

Leena was elected to the technical committee for singles and pairs skating in the summer of 2018. As a multi-professional figure skating professional, she has so far accumulated at best three international business trips per month. None of them are a spin of the day but a work tube of at least a week.

Once coronavirus has taken the ice on the card, there will be other opportunities to develop her skills. Leena Laaksonen guides you to spend time listening to music and watching skating programs. Even image training does not ask for place or time.
The first year of the committee took him to Australia, South Africa, Siberia, Japan, Canada and the United States, and of course to many European countries.

- Travel has become more and more. In fact, I just had time to spin at home packing a new bag.

In March, Travel stopped like a wall, and the everyday life of a world traveler was centered inside the home walls.

- The sleep rhythm is also a bit confused, because the schedules of video conferences meet at home and in Finnish time. Now you also have to put in more food than before. But it’s fun between being at home and working from here.

 

Committee members meet weekly in four-hour zoom sessions. According to Leena, the meetings have gone well with video connections. IT skills have been honed for everyone, he estimates that digital connections will reduce travel even after times normalize.

- On the other hand, meetings will be organized, for example, in connection with World Championships, as it is important to meet people in the venue personally.

The World Championships in Montreal was the first canceled competition with its meetings. The list of judges and evaluators for the beginning of the period will also be prepared remotely, as uncertainty about the duration of the corona pandemic is still overshadowed throughout.

- Once the seminars have been canceled, more training material needs to be produced. Already last year, we completed the e-learning package for chief judges for self-study. This year, a similar entity will be completed for judges and next year for technical panels. We wondered if there could also be some experiments done online.

 

Competition reports and refinements

The members of the Technical Committee monitor what happens in the competitions and how the judges judge. The Chief Judge and the Controller of the Technical Panel will send reports of each competition to the members of the Committee. Reports come from all the Junior and Senior GP competitions, championships and international competitions found on the ISU calendar. The competitions run every weekend.

- With three international competitions throughout the season over the same weekend, with reports coming from competitions for novices, juniors and seniors in both singles and doubles, there is really a lot to read.

The committee monitors the work of the judges and the technical panel. When it becomes aware of any special situations, it consults and gives instructions.

- We will give reminders at the end of the season if something has gone wrong.

The committee shall compile proposals from the judges and the technical panel for amendments to the rules.

- If, for example, a new difficulty factor is desired for spins, the chief judges and controllers will suggest it. We then considered whether the change could be incorporated into the rules.

The congress deciding on the changes is now scheduled for summer 2021.

- Fortunately, the meeting will take place next year, as there are many important proposals. 

 

Judge training and examinations

The Committee provides annual training for judges and technical panels. In connection with several trainings, there is an exam that also tests the skills of emerging new panelists. Through the exams, one can rise from the national level to an international judge and from the international level to the championship evaluator.

 

There is an ISU judge test every year in Oberstdorf and technical panel tests in Frankfurt in the summer. Tests for new international judges and chief judges will also be held in Frankfurt.

- It is our job to prepare the training materials and review the exams, as well as to consider who can be taken forward.

The Committee is constantly reviewing and clarifying the rules.

 

For the new season with minor changes

According to Leena, the changes in the interest rate period focus on evaluation. In this way, the skater has little need to change the elements of his program, but with the same program he is now able to continue competing.

- There will be few changes in difficulty levels, for example a few new difficulty factors for spins. Mainly the check of the purity of the jumps is even more accurate. Among other things, there will be different degrees in determining the underrotated jump, Leena opens.

However, in Leena's opinion, the exceptional time offers an opportunity to increase mental readiness.

- When you survive this crisis, you will survive the ice.

 

She believes ice-free time has revived love for the species.

- When you finally get back on the ice, everyone can appreciate training. Everyday work feels more beloved again, Leena sums up.

 

[SitTwizzle]

24 minutes ago, sallycinnamon said:

An interview with Leena Laaksonen who is one of the members of the singles & pairs technical committee.

"Skating needs a balance between technique and artistry"

 

Translated by google from Finnish to English, so sorry in advance if something is not quite clear.

 

 

I could read only half of it. 

So the "squad escalation" resulting in less artistic programs is Yuzuru Hanyu's fault, because he's practising 4A? It is not the fault of coaches and other influencers who advise "flagly advantaged" skaters to jump more whatever the left, because they will get candies PCs anyway?

And that so-called artistic program! How dare they, when a "flagly advantaged" skater can come and do only elements in an empty program to a point where I feel even a novice would be called, and get the best scores, how dare they pretend such a move could do anything for artistry in figure skating? It will do exactly the opposite, favour the "skaters with the right flags", maybe even if they lack both elements and artistry.

Couldn't they keep the present rules, which are not bad, and stick to them? It would solve the problem in one season.

[lajoitko]

8 hours ago, SitTwizzle said:

So the "squad escalation" resulting in less artistic programs is Yuzuru Hanyu's fault, because he's practising 4A?

 

The translation is very poor on this spot. She is saying that the technical development is a positive thing and shouldn´t be restricted too much. Yuzuru is just an example of this technical development along side with the ladies quads. Otherwise the translation is pretty good.

 

In other news the situation in Finland is progressing really good and I am more optimistic about Finlandia Trophy. We are opening our borders to other Nordic countries excluding Sweden without guarantine times and if the situation in Europe keeps getting better, we could open our borders even more. The outside sport events are opening more and more for the audience, but the problem with figure skating is that it happens in indoors. The good thing is that the ice hockey season should start well before the event and if they can come up with some solutions how to organize the event safely, then figure skating can copy those. Ice hockey is the number one sport in Finland and I think that the economic pressure to bring the sport (and the audience) back is quite strong.

 

[Paskud]

They really want to make ice dance out of singles.

[rockstaryuzu]

After reading that interview, I have 3 thoughts:

 

1. They wouldn't need to make rules changes or switch to having a separate 'technical' and 'artistic' program if the judges actually followed the current rulebook when judging programs.

2. The real purpose of separating the two streams seems to me to be more about making it easier for judges to judge, rather than giving skaters with a more 'artistic' side a chance to win. The same thing could be accomplished with better use of technology, without changing events.

3. If they want to judge skating skills separately so as to give 'artistic' skaters more of a chance to win, that badly, then they can bring back school figures and screw everyone over honestly, instead of pretending. 

 

Forgive me for being sour, but I honestly fail to see a need to make such a change, since all the problems this is supposed to address can be adequately dealt with under the current system by judges judging according to the current actual stated rules. For once. 

[Paskud]

28 minutes ago, rockstaryuzu said:

After reading that interview, I have 3 thoughts:

 

1. They wouldn't need to make rules changes or switch to having a separate 'technical' and 'artistic' program if the judges actually followed the current rulebook when judging programs.

2. The real purpose of separating the two streams seems to me to be more about making it easier for judges to judge, rather than giving skaters with a more 'artistic' side a chance to win. The same thing could be accomplished with better use of technology, without changing events.

3. If they want to judge skating skills separately so as to give 'artistic' skaters more of a chance to win, that badly, then they can bring back school figures and screw everyone over honestly, instead of pretending. 

 

Forgive me for being sour, but I honestly fail to see a need to make such a change, since all the problems this is supposed to address can be adequately dealt with under the current system by judges judging according to the current actual stated rules. For once. 

Figures wouldn't solve anything. Does ice dance make any sense? No. Nor would figures.