General Skating Chat

[Winnie_20]

Never gonna stop being bitter about the Rotterdam folks being total you-know-whats and passing up on the best shot ever at getting Worlds (see? It did go to Europe, duh!).

But, c'est la vie.

I'll travel to Stockholm, watch the skaters, drool over the costumes, probably sleep through some of the men's competitions because jumps-only bore me silly, and go haunt every store I can find for greeting cards (a family member collects greetings cards featuring a certain kind of dog, and they were *everywhere* in Helsinki, including in the Swedish language, so I expect to find a lot of them there, too.  )

[micaelis]

On 5/27/2018 at 10:10 AM, airi said:

Not really, because he can easily get level 4 without a Biellmann (and done this many times). It's more uniqeness of it, I think. And one of these Yuzu things

To Bielmann or not to Bielmann, that is the question.  I think the Bielmann should remain in his repertoire.  It's one of his signature moves, indeed the first one he adopted, going all the way back to his Novice days.  I think he should keep it in because a number of other men's skaters have tried to do it, almost all of them messing it up in some way or other.  I remember seeing one skater trying it and what came out was something halfway between a Bielmann and a Donut.  Not the prettiest thing.  His other signature moves - the Donut, the Ina Bauer, the Hydroblade - all have places in his armory.  It, more than any other, showcases Yuzu's flexibility and goads other, less flexible skaters to try to show off.  Their showing-off usually doesn't work and so they leave a negative impression with the judges and the audience.  They might not be tempted to show off that way if Yuzu was not doing the Bielmann, so anything to weaken the opposition is my feeling (and probably Yuzu's).  So I'd not be prepared to jettison history and drop the Bielmann.  Use it where it can do the most good for Yuzu and the least good for his opponents.

[cirelle]

7 hours ago, katonice said:

 

 

Awesome, party at my house after? 

[hoodie axel]

You rich kids tho

[Murieleirum]

I'm definitely going to Stockholm in 2021... if Yuzu is competing. Although Worlds without him this year was still enjoyable... we'll see. Cannot lose the occation of such a close city. 

[EisElle]

1 hour ago, Murieleirum said:

I'm definitely going to Stockholm in 2021... if Yuzu is competing. Although Worlds without him this year was still enjoyable... we'll see. Cannot lose the occation of such a close city. 

LOL at the "close" but I had exactly the same thought  it's closer than Japan for sure, and closer than Canada, same timezone even 

still mourning over the big missed chance in Milan tho...I hope Plushy, Shizuka and Lambiel can drag Yuzu to an ice-show in nice, close places like Verona or Florence or Switzerland we have fine chocolate, strawberries and more tomatoes than he could dream of (paprika can be easily avoided, it's hard to find it in sandwiches here) and seriously, as a twice Romeo, Yuzu should really pay his respects to Juliet's house and in Florence he can find all the gold he wants all gathered in ONE place... AND HE COULD HAVE NOTTE STELLATA AND NDP WITH LIVE MUSIC!!!!!!!!!!!! I can dream

[Murieleirum]

5 hours ago, LadyLou said:

LOL at the "close" 

 

I am considering close everywhere that's less than 150 euros of flight cost 

[axelnojutsu]

2 hours ago, Murieleirum said:

 

I am considering close everywhere that's less than 150 euros of flight cost 

anything still on the same continent counts in my book 

[Moria Polonius]

17 hours ago, micaelis said:

To Bielmann or not to Bielmann, that is the question.  I think the Bielmann should remain in his repertoire.  It's one of his signature moves, indeed the first one he adopted, going all the way back to his Novice days.  I think he should keep it in because a number of other men's skaters have tried to do it, almost all of them messing it up in some way or other.  I remember seeing one skater trying it and what came out was something halfway between a Bielmann and a Donut.  Not the prettiest thing.  His other signature moves - the Donut, the Ina Bauer, the Hydroblade - all have places in his armory.  It, more than any other, showcases Yuzu's flexibility and goads other, less flexible skaters to try to show off.  Their showing-off usually doesn't work and so they leave a negative impression with the judges and the audience.  They might not be tempted to show off that way if Yuzu was not doing the Bielmann, so anything to weaken the opposition is my feeling (and probably Yuzu's).  So I'd not be prepared to jettison history and drop the Bielmann.  Use it where it can do the most good for Yuzu and the least good for his opponents.

 

Who of Yuzu's rvals was trying Biellman? I remember only MCM sho had actually a better one than Yuzu and Kolyada. But I think Kolyada dropped it?

[Murieleirum]

53 minutes ago, axelnojutsu said:

anything still on the same continent counts in my book 

 

Well yeah, the furthest I can get is Russia anways, and I'd looove to go to Russia to see FS - and, you know, Russia

[micaelis]

4 hours ago, Moria Polonius said:

Who of Yuzu's rvals was trying Biellman? I remember only MCM sho had actually a better one than Yuzu and Kolyada. But I think Kolyada dropped it?

I can't remember the names since I wasn't looking specifically to see if they were attempting Bielmanns when I was watching.  I seem to remember Shoma trying it and not doing well at all on it.  I do remember when I was watching them thinking they were trying to copy Yuzu but they'd have been better off not trying.

[airi]

6 hours ago, Moria Polonius said:

 

Who of Yuzu's rvals was trying Biellman? I remember only MCM sho had actually a better one than Yuzu and Kolyada. But I think Kolyada dropped it?

I also remember Denis Ten (but everything in me used to hurt when he tried it). And of course a bunch of half-Biellmann, including Jason Brown, which I actually like.

 

WC in Europe  

[Huiqi]

18 hours ago, micaelis said:

I can't remember the names since I wasn't looking specifically to see if they were attempting Bielmanns when I was watching.  I seem to remember Shoma trying it and not doing well at all on it.  I do remember when I was watching them thinking they were trying to copy Yuzu but they'd have been better off not trying.

Er, Shoma has never done a Biellmann spin-it is just a different spin. None of his current rivals has a Biellmann (so nobody is trying to copy him).

Yuzu will probably do the Biellmann until he is no longer flexible enough for it. A boy loses flexibility as he gets older. 

[Xen]

Jumping on the layout guessing games a bit early, I think, but hey, why not.

 

Spoiler

So Layouts layouts: app used https://ytse17.github.io/figure-skating-calculator/

Layout and spins decisions are based on their WC 2017 layouts, and +GOEs are kind of based on the skater's jump preference (more GOE on toe or edge jumps)

 

Yuzu: 4Lo 4S 4T3T 3F//4T1Lo3S 3A2T 3A +StSq4 ChSq FCCoSp4 FCCSp4 CCoSp4, +3 GOEs on all non-3F jumps, and +2 GOE avg on other elements=131.72 (BV 87.6) Possibly he'll want to swap the 4T and 4S around, and go //4S 3A1Lo3S 3A in second half, but the boost in scores isn't that high, if he goes 4S3T 3A1Lo3S 3A though, it only jumps to 132.46, but the risk of missing combo is higher.

 

Boyang:

4Lz 4T2T 4S 3A// 4T 3A1Lo3S 3Lz3T  +StSq4 ChSq FCCSSp4 CSSP4 CCoSp4, +3 on Toe jumps, +2 GOE on edge jumps, +2 GOE on everything else= 130. 64 (BV 88.8)

 

Shoma:

4Lo 4F 4T 3Lz //3A3T 4T2T 3A1Lo3F +StSq4 ChSq  FCSp4 FCCoSp4 CCoSp4, gave +3 on edge jumps, +2 on toe jumps, +2 GOE on everything else= 131.25 (BV 90.60)

 

Nathan:

4Lz 4F3T 4F 4S//3A 4T2T 3Lz2T2Lo +StSq4 ChSq  CCSp4 FCCoSp4 CCoSp4, +3 on toe jumps, +2 on edge jumps, +2 GOE on everything else = 137. 62 (BV 92.2)

 

This is pretty much old old data, and I think everyone is capable of executing them. But if we're going also based on how GOEs are judged, other than Yuzu hitting the GOEs I used here, I don't think the other guys will actually hit the GOEs I've listed. Shoma has a slew of +1 GOEs, and if GOE bullets tighten a bit more, I think other than the 3A GOEs matching the ones I gave for this hypo, the rest will actually go lower, as even his 4Lo gets a stack of 0's and 1's. Boyang I think should actually end up around avg +2 GOEs for his jumps (honestly he should be getting +3 GOE for clean jumps on a normal basis). Nathan I think will get a decent number of +3's, but I foresee GOEs dropping on the combo jumps and his spin GOEs generally avg around +1 GOE now.

 

[Sammie]

I don’t know if it’s true. But no COC?