General Skating Chat

[airi]

Personally I don't think layback spin would be the best option for Yuzu, or for almost all other male skaters for that matter. The basic layback shouldn't really be terribly hard for most ladies, because they are naturally flexible in the lower back, but it's another story for men (hard proof is lack of men doing them decently in competition  Adam's layback as part of a combo is nice enough but I'm not a fan of it either, really). 

Yuzuru is of course one of the more flexible male skaters, but I in my opinion, not enough flexible in the back for a (good) layback. If I have to be honest his Biellmann isn't one of my favourites spin positions of his either, but it's amazing in itself that he can do it. Still think his real strenghts lay somewhere else, but hey, just personal opinion  If he wants to work on it, then I hope he will prove me wrong and show the most beautiful layback, either way I still will enjoy it because it's Yuzu. I don't think it's really wort it though...

[hoodie axel]

I don't think his Biellmann is great. 

 

This is a good Biellmann from a man:

 

(So no, you don't have to go to the haircutter from the layback to achieve the Biellmann either. Yuzuru doesn't do it, either.)

 

From a guy in pairs.

[airi]

15 minutes ago, hoodie axel said:

I don't think his Biellmann is great. 

 

This is a good Biellmann from a man:

 

Yes, a pity MCM doesn't do it like this now (got a bit worse, still impressive) 

 

And I also don't think Yuzu's Biellmann is great (I hope I'm not gonna be hated here for this ). I can only call it decent, but a lot of other elements Yuzu does go straight to category amazing, so... I still think a man doing Biellmann is so rare, and this is so hard for them, that they don't have to be perfect I just prefer Yuzu doing other spin positions

[kaeryth]

I've never come across a Yuzu fans that thinks his Biellmann is that great... it's impressive that he'd still do it though and he's improved it as well (especially the exits - where he used to just dropped his foot). I think it was around 2010-11-ish? where Nanami-sensei thought he should drop it but we all know how stubborn the boy is. A lot of people thought he'd lose it as he grew older but nope.. it's still here.

[Sombreuil]

I'm probably wrong about this but I tend to see the bielmann as an indicator of how well he's feeling - 2014/15 when he had so many health problems you could see it being dropped when things were bad and back when he felt better.

[yuzupon]

His Biellmann, in isolation, is not great. Neither is his layback Ina Bauer. But being able to do both has always been a point of pride of his.

 

The Biellmann is there because his idol Plushenko used to do it, and it's rare among men. Martinez has (had?) a better Biellmann doesn't mean Yuzu should drop it because his is not the best. In addition to everything else he does well in his program, the fact that he does Biellmann too is why it's great. 

 

Layback IB is there because it's rare among skaters, male or female (Martinez's brief layback IB in that Sochi FS was also deeper, too bad it wasn't always used to a great impact in a program), and because Shi-chan does it (the best version, imo). Tiny Bby Zu was so proud to show that he could do the IB 'the Arakawa way' back in the first few interviews of him. The way he does layback IB, again, after everything else he does well in his program, plus how he times it to match perfectly with the music and to add impact into his program is why it's great.

[Tsubakindy]

2 hours ago, yuzupon said:

His Biellmann, in isolation, is not great. Neither is his layback Ina Bauer. But being able to do both has always been a point of pride of his.

 

The Biellmann is there because his idol Plushenko used to do it, and it's rare among men. Martinez has (had?) a better Biellmann doesn't mean Yuzu should drop it because his is not the best. In addition to everything else he does well in his program, the fact that he does Biellmann too is why it's great. 

 

Layback IB is there because it's rare among skaters, male or female (Martinez's brief layback IB in that Sochi FS was also deeper, too bad it wasn't always used to a great impact in a program), and because Shi-chan does it (the best version, imo). Tiny Bby Zu was so proud to show that he could do the IB 'the Arakawa way' back in the first few interviews of him. The way he does layback IB, again, after everything else he does well in his program, plus how he times it to match perfectly with the music and to add impact into his program is why it's great.

Ah, x 9999 agree with this. His biellmann isnt on amazing level but I am super grateful he doesnt drop it  I am loving that layback spin in the Gundam Seed ex too ( if only those yellow drapes arent so hideous...) If he wants to bring the layback spin to competitions it would be nice to see some new changes in his layout, I love that layback as much as I love his crossfoot upright spin. If he tries I'm sure he can improve it.

 

Here i am dreading the 30 s cut on mens fs...he might have to cut either the Ina Bauer or the hydroblade. I would cry a river over that, I love the way Yuzu matches both to the music....

 

*still mourning over the now non-existant spiral sequence in the ladies field, and now this..*

[airi]

4 hours ago, yuzupon said:

His Biellmann, in isolation, is not great. Neither is his layback Ina Bauer. But being able to do both has always been a point of pride of his.

 

The Biellmann is there because his idol Plushenko used to do it, and it's rare among men. Martinez has (had?) a better Biellmann doesn't mean Yuzu should drop it because his is not the best. In addition to everything else he does well in his program, the fact that he does Biellmann too is why it's great. 

 

Layback IB is there because it's rare among skaters, male or female (Martinez's brief layback IB in that Sochi FS was also deeper, too bad it wasn't always used to a great impact in a program), and because Shi-chan does it (the best version, imo). Tiny Bby Zu was so proud to show that he could do the IB 'the Arakawa way' back in the first few interviews of him. The way he does layback IB, again, after everything else he does well in his program, plus how he times it to match perfectly with the music and to add impact into his program is why it's great.

 

I know, I know, I absolutely don't think Yuzu should drop the Biellmann, that's one of his trademarks by now, and it's great that he does it. I can appreciate it even if it's not one of my favourites.

 

And I actually love his layback IB exactly because it's always so perfectly matched to the music. I'll be sad if he has to give it up because of time cut... (but it's Yuzu, he will think of something :D). Eventual layback spin (or even feature in a combo) would probably take time to master though, I guess we will see... 

[xeyra]

I actually think his layback IB is pretty great. He doesn't need to bend over on the back as much as Yulia or Shizuka to have a good layback IB.

 

His Biellman, on the other hand, is just passable. I like the teardrop shape he gets it into, since I don't really like hyperextended Biellmans, but he slows down a bunch and the foot dropping used to be terrible (he's improved it somewhat). 

[hoodie axel]

Yuzuru's layback ina bauer is good.

 

I think his Biellmann should be dropped, not because someone else has a better one, but because it's just not a good position for him. It's literally there to get a level. It's like Yuna Kim's I-Spin, which she used to sometimes hold for 8 revolutions just to get a level.

[OonsieHui]

5 minutes ago, hoodie axel said:

I think his Biellmann should be dropped, not because someone else has a better one, but because it's just not a good position for him. It's literally there to get a level. It's like Yuna Kim's I-Spin, which she used to sometimes hold for 8 revolutions just to get a level.

 

Our of curiosity, what would you recommend in replacement to retain said level? Because, at the end of the day it is a competition and he is going to do what's necessary to get the marks. 

[airi]

7 minutes ago, hoodie axel said:

Yuzuru's layback ina bauer is good.

 

I think his Biellmann should be dropped, not because someone else has a better one, but because it's just not a good position for him. It's literally there to get a level. It's like Yuna Kim's I-Spin, which she used to sometimes hold for 8 revolutions just to get a level.

Not really, because he can easily get level 4 without a Biellmann (and done this many times). It's more uniqeness of it, I think. And one of these Yuzu things 

[Neenah]

9 minutes ago, hoodie axel said:

Yuzuru's layback ina bauer is good.

 

I think his Biellmann should be dropped, not because someone else has a better one, but because it's just not a good position for him. It's literally there to get a level. It's like Yuna Kim's I-Spin, which she used to sometimes hold for 8 revolutions just to get a level.

Not really since we know he replaces it when he is conserving energy so it is not for the levels only. I think it is there for more sentimental reason or because he just likes that he can do it 

[Katt]

Yuzuru's biellmann is not great but I will take it over A spin any day. Its impressive that he still can do biellman at the age of 23. I recall alot people predict he would lost biellman once he turned 18/19. There's a few thing that Yuzuru keep doing because they're his trademark and pride, not just for the sake of points. I feel pain in my back whenever I watch his Biellmann, but when he doesn't, I feel something's missing 

His layback spin is ok, I hope he can improve his free leg tho. Normally I'm not a fan of men's layback spin. Its ok to do in ex but in competition is another thing. 

[hoodie axel]

42 minutes ago, OonsieHui said:

Our of curiosity, what would you recommend in replacement to retain said level? Because, at the end of the day it is a competition and he is going to do what's necessary to get the marks. 

It is possible to get level 4s without Biellmanns (and as pointed out, he's done it before).