General Skating Chat

[robin]

1 minute ago, Xen said:

I think the major changes were step sequence levels, in which case it shouldn't be too hard for me. If slow-mo is allowed, I can probably ID steps (will need help with Choctaws though ugh). What would amuse me is if results were published-you need some thick skin for some of the onslaught that may come from some corners of the FS community. It would also be amusing though, if the results got thumbed up by say, Max and Angelo.

 

We‘re not an official panel and should use all the technology we can use (shade intended) so slowmos should be fine  

 

It should also be fine to replay elements for GOE scoring?

[hoodie axel]

18 minutes ago, yuzupon said:

I tend to underscore everything and everyone. Yes, even Zu, despite being outraged when he is being underscored by judges  (Cz I always feel like his score should probably not go that high by itself. But relatively to how the others are scored, goddammit! Zu is underscored).

Pretty much.

 

For reference, I scored H&L 2017W at 214. Shoma got 190 for Loco and Boyang got 193 for La Strada. Didn't mark SPs, but I think Shoma barely edges out for Silver. Maybe.

 

If we're doing slow-mo... Pre-rotation checks, please!

[Xen]

46 minutes ago, robin said:

 

We‘re not an official panel and should use all the technology we can use (shade intended) so slowmos should be fine  

 

It should also be fine to replay elements for GOE scoring?

 

35 minutes ago, hoodie axel said:

Pretty much.

 

For reference, I scored H&L 2017W at 214. Shoma got 190 for Loco and Boyang got 193 for La Strada. Didn't mark SPs, but I think Shoma barely edges out for Silver. Maybe.

 

If we're doing slow-mo... Pre-rotation checks, please!

Depends...I actually don't mind fancams to a degree, since it usually lets me see the actual edge depth a bit better. Necessary in case someone's counter goes off a flat edge. Well if you guys want to be really mean, I could take a stab at TP calls with just fancams.

Maybe we should take all this talk to that thread for the actual mock panels? The issue with PR is that judges and TPs usually don't call Pre-rotations. And no slow-mo is permitted. So for Pre-rotations, there are the ones where the skater definitely pre-rotated over 180 degrees. But what about PR between say 120-180 degrees? Would we call that a weak take off/jump entry? And if so, do you actually want a TP to mark those differences out? Or leave the ones under 180 for judges?

 

Lastly, a part of me is a bit nervous about a mock panel coming from a hanyu fan forum. Yes, a lot of us can be very neutral when we have to score, but I can imagine the drama that it can cause from some other fan groups. It's not like Max and Angelo only got praise and love for their commentary and analysis-even they have been called biased. o_O

[hoodie axel]

26 minutes ago, Xen said:

Maybe we should take all this talk to that thread for the actual mock panels? The issue with PR is that judges and TPs usually don't call Pre-rotations. And no slow-mo is permitted. So for Pre-rotations, there are the ones where the skater definitely pre-rotated over 180 degrees. But what about PR between say 120-180 degrees? Would we call that a weak take off/jump entry? And if so, do you actually want a TP to mark those differences out? Or leave the ones under 180 for judges?

 

Measure pre-rotation so we can see if the jump as at least number of turns in the name - 0.75 turns. So check if a triple has 2.25 rotations. Between 2-2.25 UR. Below 2 DG. Check for full blade takeoffs, make a notation, and tell them what it is. They're actually easy to spot, though, if the angle's alright, so it should strictly be a GOE deduction, no need to invent further rules.

 

A jump with 180 degree PR will be called rotated if it lands a quarter short (we don't need a concept of doubt), but will not get high GOE because it's only minimally rotated.

 

The "judges" will be watching anyway, so they'll see what to do.

 

[yuzupon]

26 minutes ago, Xen said:

Lastly, a part of me is a bit nervous about a mock panel coming from a hanyu fan forum. Yes, a lot of us can be very neutral when we have to score, but I can imagine the drama that it can cause from some other fan groups. It's not like Max and Angelo only got praise and love for their commentary and analysis-even they have been called biased. o_O

Oh, wait. Are we publishing the mock panel outside of the forum? I thought it's just for internal fun?

 

About Ambessi and Dolfini. I give up on the people who call these two biased based on that analysis. I am not sure how you can look at that analysis with clear slow-mo examples to back what they were talking about, and then your only response is to cry "Biased!!!". It comes from people who clearly cannot look at the argument at face value and instead attack based on reputation/past argument/personal preference. But you're right. Based on how these two got treated, any mock panel coming form Yuzuru Hanyu fan forum would be met with fire and fury. I would advise against publishing it outside of the forum.

[Xen]

3 minutes ago, yuzupon said:

Oh, wait. Are we publishing the mock panel outside of the forum? I thought it's just for internal fun?

 

About Ambessi and Dolfini. I give up on the people who call these two biased based on that analysis. I am not sure how you can look at that analysis with clear slow-mo examples to back what they were talking about, and then your only response is to cry "Biased!!!". It comes from people who clearly cannot look at the argument at face value and instead attack based on reputation/past argument/personal preference. But you're right. Based on how these two got treated, any mock panel coming form Yuzuru Hanyu fan forum would be met with fire and fury. I would advise against publishing it outside of the forum.

I think there are people who aren't Hanyu fans who are aware of this place. =(

There are plenty of Hanyu fans who have antis stalk their twitter too. It's pretty sad that there are no two ways about it-only that hopefully people who find this useful, outnumber the antis.

Anyways, I'll be okay with being TP if there's a need.

[robin]

I will make a thread in a minute! A new one since this is a new start

 

Also, I think what‘s important is that we don’t take each other and ourselves too seriously. We could do something like, publish as google sheets but put a password on it that can be shared via PMs? To avoid any drama and also to make it an overall less stressful experience for everyone involved 

 

Actually, if we make it a lighthearted thing I would join, too (but take my scores out of the overall scores, maybe. I‘d score on a hunch and wouldn’t want to be made responsible for the scores I give out lmao. Maybe that way there would be more members who‘d want to join for the learning experience)

 

eta: there‘s also a mechanism where links won’t be displayed to non-members on the whole forum. You have to be logged in to view links so that’s one filter already 

 

eta2: we can continue here

 

 

[Lilona]

I have a question. Sorry, I didn't mean to start a war, just curious. Yesterday on twitter was flashmob 1 like=1 unpopular opinion or smth like that. And I saw some fan of Yuzu called Massimiliano Ambessi trash. And I thought it was quite harsh. I was busy at that time and didn't asked her what she mean but I think I read before from her twitter that Max are using Yuzu for hype?

I always thought that Max is just fanboy of Yuzuru for a long term. I read some of their Angelo podcasts abt FS in English and quite liked it.

Mb someone know this fan twitter acc so I can ask her directly or mb anyone know why she think like that abt Max? I'm confused.

[Murieleirum]

18 hours ago, Lilona said:

I have a question. Sorry, I didn't mean to start a war, just curious. Yesterday on twitter was flashmob 1 like=1 unpopular opinion or smth like that. And I saw some fan of Yuzu called Massimiliano Ambessi trash. And I thought it was quite harsh. I was busy at that time and didn't asked her what she mean but I think I read before from her twitter that Max are using Yuzu for hype?

I always thought that Max is just fanboy of Yuzuru for a long term. I read some of their Angelo podcasts abt FS in English and quite liked it.

Mb someone know this fan twitter acc so I can ask her directly or mb anyone know why she think like that abt Max? I'm confused.

 

Max isn't just a Yuzuru fanboy.

Max is a Winter Sports specialist, ex-athlete, and professional commentator, and currently he is one of the few figure skating commentators from all around the world who has deep expertise and a completely unbiased technical perspective of the sport. He can talk lenghts about any competition since the beginning of the ISU, you give him a date, he will tell you all the names of the winners and the non-winners, who skated to what music, he has a terrific memory of all major happenings in the sport and can quote ISU rulebook by heart, but most of all he has an unparalleled passion for what he does, he cares about the sport being fair, he disdains any kind of affair happening behind the scenes that has nothing to do with the athletic performance delivered, he is understanding and even empathic with the athletes and never lets the nationality of an athlete influence his judgement, he will call bullshit when he sees it, and he does so pretty often. 

So, not only he couldn't care less about the hype that comes whenever he writes a tweet about Yuzuru.

We should feel grateful that such an expert of the sport like him loves Yuzuru's skating so much, and the extents to which he goes to spread knowledge on how revolutionary Yuzuru's skating is should be further evidence on the objectivity of Yuzuru's greatness as a sportsman. 

(Everything I've said extends to Angelo as well, with the difference that Angelo doesn't use his social network accounts. They both are distinguished technical experts of the sport, although they do sometimes have different mindsets.) 

 

 

(Yes, you are talking with Max Ambesi's number 1 Fan. I'd start a blog only dedicated to him. He's given me a lot. If I can understand even the tiniest little thing about this sport, it's thanks to him.) 

[Lilona]

43 минуты назад, Murieleirum сказал:

 

Max isn't just a Yuzuru fanboy.

Max is a Winter Sports specialist, ex-athlete, and professional commentator, and currently he is one of the few figure skating commentators from all around the world who has deep expertise and a completely unbiased technical perspective of the sport. He can talk lenghts about any competition since the beginning of the ISU, you give him a date, he will tell you all the names of the winners and the non-winners, who skated to what music, he has a terrific memory of all major happenings in the sport and can quote ISU rulebook by heart, but most of all he has an unparalleled passion for what he does, he cares about the sport being fair, he disdains any kind of affair happening behind the scenes that has nothing to do with the athletic performance delivered, he is understanding and even empathic with the athletes and never lets the nationality of an athlete influence his judgement, he will call bullshit when he sees it, and he does so pretty often. 

So, not only he couldn't care less about the hype that comes whenever he writes a tweet about Yuzuru.

We should feel grateful that such an expert of the sport like him loves Yuzuru's skating so much, and the extents to which he goes to spread knowledge on how revolutionary Yuzuru's skating is should be further evidence on the objectivity of Yuzuru's greatness as a sportsman. 

(Everything I've said extends to Angelo as well, with the difference that Angelo doesn't use his social network accounts. They both are distinguished technical experts of the sport, although they do sometimes have different mindsets.) 

 

 

(Yes, you are talking with Max Ambesi's number 1 Fan. I'd start a blog only dedicated to him. He's given me a lot. If I can understand even the tiniest little thing about this sport, it's thanks to him.) 

I know that and I liked him a LOT esp his commentary, podcasts and last documentary where he commented with Angelo men's SP (in matter of fact I'm currently making Russian subs to this analisys) so I really confused and curious what beef that fan have to Max oO

[EisElle]

13 hours ago, Lilona said:

I know that and I liked him a LOT esp his commentary, podcasts and last documentary where he commented with Angelo men's SP (in matter of fact I'm currently making Russian subs to this analisys) so I really confused and curious what beef that fan have to Max oO

oooh as an Italian it makes me proud by proxy that their commentaries are liked and translated   (while some of my compatriots' words make me *cough* Sonia Bianchetti *cough*)

 

while it's true that some (many?) commentators and journalists might use Yuzu's name because of his popularity, Max and Angelo are NOT among them.

They have been praising Yuzuru since he was very young, way before he was famous (and when other commentators couldn't even get his name right). They praised his skating skills (and components in general) in 2012 Nice FS commentary, comparing him to someone like Daisuke Takahashi who had back then a (deserved) reputation for deserving good PCS. Just sticking with the same competition, for example Rai commentators said Daisuke still was miles ahead than Yuzuru in components (just because Daisuke was Daisuke, they didn't go in depth about the different components, while Max and Angelo talked about the different components and of course recognized Yuzu was still weaker in some of them, which, given the age difference, was to be expected).

For most commentators Yuzuru was "the future" back then, but for Max and Angelo he was already pretty much in the same league of the big guys. And then we can also talk about the London 2013 FS. That was far far far form Yuzu's best showing (or best program), but they recognized the qualites that skate had. Everytime Yuzuru had less than stellar skates, they have been supportive (and tbh they are always supportive of every skater on a human level. That's what happens when you know how hard all skaters work) and they have NEVER EVER dismissed Yuzuru, not even when he wasn't winning. I kinda LOL everytime I re-watch their Helsinki FS commentary and Max states: "If he has the skate he has in mind, he can WIN this competition". This while everyone else thought Yuzuru would be lucky to even podium

 

Max respects Yuzuru a lot, both as a skater and as a person (he gushed about off-ice Yuzuru a lot too. And being a huge nerd of the sport himself, I guess he relates a lot to Yuzu being a FS nerd too) AND he views Yuzuru as the golden standard in the sport he writes about. So why wouldn't he mention him a lot?

That fan has no reason to think that Max only tweets about Yuzuru to get likes.

[cinemacoconut]

wow hearing patrick's retirement makes me sad. I really think Patrick, Javi and Nathan were Yuzus close rivals. Anyway, what r the chances of yuzu ever winning a team event OGM? I sometimes fantasize yuzu doin what plushenko did. Coming to olympics jst for the team event Short Program and getting a Team event Olympic medal as a retirement gift at 31 in 2026 lol... Like I knw its impossible for yuzu to skate beyond the age of 27 at max, but Im hoping he might do team event? Less pressure. It depends if they change the IJS though. If they lower quad value, maybe yuzu might have a chance.

 

 

Who are skaters who unretired? Or came out of retirement?

[singermelodie1]

1 hour ago, cinemacoconut said:

wow hearing patrick's retirement makes me sad. I really think Patrick, Javi and Nathan were Yuzus close rivals. Anyway, what r the chances of yuzu ever winning a team event OGM? I sometimes fantasize yuzu doin what plushenko did. Coming to olympics jst for the team event Short Program and getting a Team event Olympic medal as a retirement gift at 31 in 2026 lol... Like I knw its impossible for yuzu to skate beyond the age of 27 at max, but Im hoping he might do team event? Less pressure. It depends if they change the IJS though. If they lower quad value, maybe yuzu might have a chance.

 

 

Who are skaters who unretired? Or came out of retirement?

To win a team event medal, Japan would have to invest in the other fields. They're kinda low on the pair and ice dancing field.

[OonsieHui]

4 hours ago, cinemacoconut said:

wow hearing patrick's retirement makes me sad. I really think Patrick, Javi and Nathan were Yuzus close rivals.

 

This might be slightly mean but....

Spoiler

 

Patrick, Javi, Nathan, Yuzu.

 

One of these is not like the others, one of these just does not belong!  

 

Spoiler

Like, I'm sorry. But putting Nathan in the same sentence as the other three as rivals makes me laugh because in what universe is he on par with those three in terms of overall skating ability? It is true that he can be their rival in points, but I am firmly of the opinion that he isn't anywhere close in terms of skating quality. 

 

 

 

 

[cinemacoconut]

9 hours ago, singermelodie1 said:

To win a team event medal, Japan would have to invest in the other fields. They're kinda low on the pair and ice dancing field.

 

Oda came on japan open after he retired. Hoping yuzu will do the same haha