General Skating Chat

[Aotoshiro]

2 hours ago, fireovertheice said:

Hi all!

Here you are a new video showing the data of Yulia about 1-foot skating and TR in the top 7 men SP (first part of the season), following the translation of  kolmogorov_is_sad and with the final observations of the "Figure skating comparison team".

 

Hope you like it and help to spread it . Every comment and further observations on the data are also welcome. 

 

 

 

 

When you see those 0.8something in ratio and think 'Well, Yuzu is a bit above one I guess?' And then Ratio comes and slams THE 3, and you're like...'where is the zero?? Where is the dot?? Oh, it's Chopin 3.0..."_{ouch my pun making skills suck so much...}

[xeyra]

58 minutes ago, Aotoshiro said:

When you see those 0.8something in ratio and think 'Well, Yuzu is a bit above one I guess?' And then Ratio comes and slams THE 3, and you're like...'where is the zero?? Where is the dot?? Oh, it's Chopin 3.0..."_{ouch my pun making skills suck so much...}

 

*slow clap*

[xeyra]

On 27/11/2017 at 4:00 PM, xeyra said:

BEST ELEMENTS SEASON 2017-2018 - updated

Men, Ladies and Pairs

 

2017-2018 SEASON AND PERSONAL BESTS - updated

Men and Ladies

 

MEN: AVERAGE GOE AND SCORES 2017-2018 SEASON - updated and added Samarin, Aliev, Tanaka

Hanyu, Uno, Chen, Chan, Fernandez, Jin, Zhou, Kolyada, Rippon, Voronov, Brown, Samarin, Aliev, Tanaka

 

LADIES: AVERAGE GOE AND SCORES 2017-2018 SEASON - new

Medvedeva, Zagitova, Sotskova, Tsurskaya, Radionova, Osmond, Daleman, Kostner, Miyahara, Sakamoto, Higuchi, Mihara, Tennell, Chen, Nagasu, Wagner

 

MAX GOE HISTORY - updated

Men and Ladies

 

TOP 10 SCORES, PCS, TES AND GOE - updated

Men and Ladies

 

These will be updated as the season progresses. 

 

Last Update: 30th January 2018

 

I've updated the tables in the quoted post as shown. 

 

Tidbits:

Despite having only two competitions this season, Yuzuru still has the best GOE on solo and combination quads, as well as the 3A.

Europeans 2018 have shaken up the Top 10 ranks in SP/FS PCS, TES, GOEs and scores a bit. And 4CC saw the addition of one more top 10 for Boyang's FS TES. 

[Xen]

On 1/29/2018 at 1:40 AM, fireovertheice said:

Hi all!

Here you are a new video showing the data of Yulia about 1-foot skating and TR in the top 7 men SP (first part of the season), following the translation of  kolmogorov_is_sad and with the final observations of the "Figure skating comparison team".

 

Hope you like it and help to spread it . Every comment and further observations on the data are also welcome. 

 

 

 

 

I'm not sure if this is okay to say here?

When I look at some of the data on Shoma's SP, and then hear comments about his good knee bend, and his skating skills, there's a part of me that is slightly dissappointed that he doesn't do more, especially in the free program. It's a bit like...you know he's good and he's capable of it, but sometimes you feel like you're not actually seeing it in action? The winter SP steps, yes I see it has complexity, but why none of that in the free?

Personally, I'm liking his Loco Long from last season better than turandot this season. There's a certain sharpness, a bit of staccato breakage of his program in Loco (arms mostly) that made it more interesting; Turandot on the other hand is very "rounded", it's not punctuated by anything that makes me stand up and watch. Anyways, it's Olys and I don't expect anything drastic, but I hope for different programs in the future.

[meoima]

5 hours ago, Xen said:

I'm not sure if this is okay to say here?

When I look at some of the data on Shoma's SP, and then hear comments about his good knee bend, and his skating skills, there's a part of me that is slightly dissappointed that he doesn't do more, especially in the free program. It's a bit like...you know he's good and he's capable of it, but sometimes you feel like you're not actually seeing it in action? The winter SP steps, yes I see it has complexity, but why none of that in the free?

Personally, I'm liking his Loco Long from last season better than turandot this season. There's a certain sharpness, a bit of staccato breakage of his program in Loco (arms mostly) that made it more interesting; Turandot on the other hand is very "rounded", it's not punctuated by anything that makes me stand up and watch. Anyways, it's Olys and I don't expect anything drastic, but I hope for different programs in the future.

You might have noticed that aside from Yuzuru who has been MIA for most of the season, the top men actually have simplified their programs up to this point, judging from their outing. Some programs look even emptier than how they looked at the beginning of the season. 

 

About your comment... per my understanding, these guys have not improved their complexity despite having the potential to do it, is that a good and complex program takes time to gel with all the elements. They do not have enough time and not enough attention for that right now. Also, it takes time for the skater to improve their SS and speed. There is a reason why older skaters tend to improve their skating skills because they simply spend more time in... just skating around. Every skill needs time. Yes some skaters almost never improve their skills despite old age because of

1) wrong method of practice or

2) not enough motivation and not enough effort in changing the technique.

 

The issue is, most skaters get too hyped up with the race for Olympics, they know as long as they skate virtually clean, they're fine, and their coaches know that too. I mean everyone knows that but they go along with the way anyway.

 

Recently I rewatched Javi's performance at European and I was like: WHAT WHY HOW he got level 3-4 for most of his spin and step elements, because if you look at his performance in a deeper way, if he were not a top skater, he might just get level 1, 2 or even just a V sign for them. 

 

There is one thing I admire from Eteri group, is that even though Medvedeva and Zagitova do not fly on the ice, they do execute packed transitions and do not simplify them. Their programs are very rich in term of skating movements, unlike most of the top men.

 

I have to say, it is not biased to call Yuzuru as the only top guy who integrates top quality skating transitions with many quads in his program and they even match the music. And even though I am not a big fan of Yuzuru's NDP and Juliet 2.0 that he got from Davi Wilson, and I do think yes to some extent he did benefit from higher PCS than expect due to his huge jumps and being the only contender against Patrick, these 2 less favoured free skates are still very much PACKED with transitions and there was CLEAR effort in trying to improve the complexity of his skating by that time. I am glad Yuzuru NEVER simplified his complexity for the sake of instant PCS.  

 

 

[Smultron]

7 hours ago, Xen said:

I'm not sure if this is okay to say here?

When I look at some of the data on Shoma's SP, and then hear comments about his good knee bend, and his skating skills, there's a part of me that is slightly dissappointed that he doesn't do more, especially in the free program. It's a bit like...you know he's good and he's capable of it, but sometimes you feel like you're not actually seeing it in action? The winter SP steps, yes I see it has complexity, but why none of that in the free?

Personally, I'm liking his Loco Long from last season better than turandot this season. There's a certain sharpness, a bit of staccato breakage of his program in Loco (arms mostly) that made it more interesting; Turandot on the other hand is very "rounded", it's not punctuated by anything that makes me stand up and watch. Anyways, it's Olys and I don't expect anything drastic, but I hope for different programs in the future.

 

You are not alone, Loco is missed by many and, honestly, as much as I like Shoma, Turandot has been a disappointment so far in terms of choreography and transitions... Loco had so many interesting choreo details matching the music that made it exciting to watch.. Hand movements and besti squats and other stuff... So many details that you remember after you've watched the program. When I think about Turandot 2. I only remember crossovers, crossovers, crossovers.... I'm genuinely sad that his team hasn't done anything to fix this... 

[CupidsBow]

10 hours ago, Smultron said:

 

You are not alone, Loco is missed by many and, honestly, as much as I like Shoma, Turandot has been a disappointment so far in terms of choreography and transitions... Loco had so many interesting choreo details matching the music that made it exciting to watch.. Hand movements and besti squats and other stuff... So many details that you remember after you've watched the program. When I think about Turandot 2. I only remember crossovers, crossovers, crossovers.... I'm genuinely sad that his team hasn't done anything to fix this... 

 

Same. I like Shoma a lot. Loco was a great program the left a strong impression and was memorable. I have watched Turandot 2.0 how many times now?? and can't remember anything except the why hands and the costume. It's a snooze and it's so disappointing because he can do better.

[GreatLakesGal]

Off topic but just had to say to CupidsBow:  I love those huge glasses Yuzu is wearing in the Gif you have on your posts. I think they look adorable on him and I smile every time I see one of your comments.

[ruruzest]

 

[SparkleSalad]

(Oops, wrong thread.)

[Neenah]

The SP solo jumps and "preceding steps"   for the top men 

 

 

[Xen]

Since the recent news that Yuzu is doing well on all jumps, but the 4Lz and the guesswork that he might leave out the 4Lz, then the entire issue of jump rhythm, I'm placing my hypothetical layouts here. 

 

So Yuzu's (planned) jump layout at Rostel2017 is: 4Lz 4Lo 3F//4S3T 4T 4T1Lo3S 3A2T 3A

Which follows the pattern of Toe-edge-toe// edge toe toe edge edge

So if we go the route of not wanting to fix his jumps/steps pattern, there are a couple he could consider:

(using FISK app)

1) Assuming he doesn't take out the 4Lz but takes out 4 Lo:  4Lz 4S 3F// 4S3T 4T 4TLo3S 3A2T 3A- BV 109.76, again +2 GOEs only and his TES is at 130.96, if we add in PCs, again, staring at over 226.96 in Long, with a total of 335.96 (if we add in a 109 pt SP). Give or minus a bit of GOEs, better SP and he could hit 340. 

2) 4Lo 4S 3F// 4S3T 4T 4T3T 3ALo3S 3A- (was this the summer layout?)- 108.16 BV, +2 GOEs puts TES at 129.36, and if we give 96 PCs again, 225.35 in the long. Add in a 109 SP and we're at 334+again.  

3) 4T 4Lo 3F// 4S3T 4Tlo3S 3Lz 3A2T 3A- BV of only 103.23, add in +2GOEs we're looking at 219.83, and add in SP probably around 328.93. Which means he's still capable of breaking the 330 point WR he holds. With only 4 quads. 

 

So um, he's in pretty good shape. I played around with a lot of Layouts for Nate, up to including a 4Lz in the second half. The points he needs to get in GOEs and SP score alone to hit over 330 is higher than what he's gotten internationally so far, even with a 6 quad layout.

 

[Neenah]

Just now, Xen said:

Since the recent news that Yuzu is doing well on all jumps, but the 4Lz and the guesswork that he might leave out the 4Lz, then the entire issue of jump rhythm, I'm placing my hypothetical layouts here. 

 

So Yuzu's (planned) jump layout at Rostel2017 is: 4Lz 4Lo 3F//4S3T 4T 4T1Lo3S 3A2T 3A

Which follows the pattern of Toe-edge-toe// edge toe toe edge edge

So if we go the route of not wanting to fix his jumps/steps pattern, there are a couple he could consider:

(using FISK app)

1) Assuming he doesn't take out the 4Lz but takes out 4 Lo:  4Lz 4S 3F// 4S3T 4T 4TLo3S 3A2T 3A- BV 109.76, again +2 GOEs only and his TES is at 130.96, if we add in PCs, again, staring at over 226.96 in Long, with a total of 335.96 (if we add in a 109 pt SP). Give or minus a bit of GOEs, better SP and he could hit 340. 

2) 4Lo 4S 3F// 4S3T 4T 4T3T 3ALo3S 3A- (was this the summer layout?)- 108.16 BV, +2 GOEs puts TES at 129.36, and if we give 96 PCs again, 225.35 in the long. Add in a 109 SP and we're at 334+again.  

3) 4T 4Lo 3F// 4S3T 4Tlo3S 3Lz 3A2T 3A- BV of only 103.23, add in +2GOEs we're looking at 219.83, and add in SP probably around 328.93. Which means he's still capable of breaking the 330 point WR he holds. With only 4 quads. 

 

So um, he's in pretty good shape. I played around with a lot of Layouts for Nate, up to including a 4Lz in the second half. The points he needs to get in GOEs and SP score alone to hit over 330 is higher than what he's gotten internationally so far, even with a 6 quad layout.

 

with the second layout it would be a zayak, it is repeating the 4S, 4T and 3A. His summer layout had only one 3A  

[Xen]

9 minutes ago, Neenah said:

with the second layout it would be a zayak, it is repeating the 4S, 4T and 3A. His summer layout had only one 3A  

Thanks. 

So I guess 4T 4Lo 3F//4S3T 4S 4TLo3S 3A2T 3Lz? BV of 105.43, pure TES capable of exceeding 127, and final score able to go over 223, and capable of hitting over 332 overall with a 109 SP? Still not bad, since I gave pretty conservative estimates for GOEs and PCs if he goes clean. And he might hit 110 again with his SP (even with a 4S instead of 4Lo). 

 

Um, should I even try a 4Lo in second half layout? He's not that crazy yet, right?

[Aotoshiro]

10 minutes ago, Xen said:

Um, should I even try a 4Lo in second half layout? He's not that crazy yet, right?

Crazy, no, kuyashii...maybe? It's Yuzu