General Yuzuru Chat

[peach-blossom]

So I’ve been going through Twitter and Reddit and I see loads of posts saying people should “Support all skaters equally” and I don’t really understand this. Is this something unique to the sport of skating? I’m a pretty big cricket fan and it’s unthinkable for an Indian to say we should cheer Pakistan too xD (although that’s probably the nationalist aspect coming through)

Just wanted to know your thoughts!

[wildstrawberry]

33 minutes ago, peach-blossom said:

So I’ve been going through Twitter and Reddit and I see loads of posts saying people should “Support all skaters equally” and I don’t really understand this. Is this something unique to the sport of skating? I’m a pretty big cricket fan and it’s unthinkable for an Indian to say we should cheer Pakistan too xD (although that’s probably the nationalist aspect coming through)

Just wanted to know your thoughts!

I've been watching many many sports since i was 4,and it's unthinkable in any sport to demand such a thing,i always roll my eyes out of my head when i hear it. The only explanation I have for this nonsense is that the ppl who say such things don't see fs as a sport or they've never watched any other sport and therefore have no understanding what a sport is. And beyond the nationalistic aspect, even at club level,imagine going to a supporter of one football team and tell them to support their rival teams...lol you will literally get punched in the face.

And even if you don't know how sport works,this thing still reeks of bullshit, no one gets to dictate on what/who a person chooses to spend time,money and energy for,like who the hell do some think they are to ask ppl that These "support all skaters equally" ppl should take several seats and stop talking bc frankly they're embarrassing themselves.

[FlyingCamel]

 

Amazing how much work went into the costume!!

Regarding the “support all skaters equally” topic, I think there are people who do so, but I don’t think all figure skating fans should be obliged to do the same - after all this is sport and everyone will have their favourites!

[sweetwater]

Missed the 2019 FaOI party due to a headache, but the TV looks awesome! Must be nice to be able to chat using familiar emojis and without logging in another site 

[CaroSkate]

2小時前, peach-blossom說:

So I’ve been going through Twitter and Reddit and I see loads of posts saying people should “Support all skaters equally” and I don’t really understand this. Is this something unique to the sport of skating? I’m a pretty big cricket fan and it’s unthinkable for an Indian to say we should cheer Pakistan too xD (although that’s probably the nationalist aspect coming through)

Just wanted to know your thoughts!

 

It feels like they actually don't really care or don't have a particular favorite skater.

 

In men's, even though I do respect all the skaters and hope they would not have a disaster skate, but I am too emotionally invested in Yuzu to root for anyone else. In ladies', I have several favorites but don't care as much, so I support them quite equally. In pairs' and ice dance, I still watch but I care even less, so I support all skaters equally.

[sallycinnamon]

1 hour ago, wildstrawberry said:

I've been watching many many sports since i was 4,and it's unthinkable in any sport to demand such a thing,i always roll my eyes out of my head when i hear it. The only explanation I have for this nonsense is that the ppl who say such things don't see fs as a sport or they've never watched any other sport and therefore have no understanding what a sport is. And beyond the nationalistic aspect, even at club level,imagine going to a supporter of one football team and tell them to support their rival teams...lol you will literally get punched in the face.

And even if you don't know how sport works,this thing still reeks of bullshit, no one gets to dictate on what/who a person chooses to spend time,money and energy for,like who the hell do some think they are to ask ppl that These "support all skaters equally" ppl should take several seats and stop talking bc frankly they're embarrassing themselves.

 

Yes, it's because many still don't see figure skating as a sport but rather as a form of art, or show, so they think it's respectful to support everyone because they give the audience entertainment. If you look at the history of skating,  I think it all stems from ice revues which very were very popular from the first half of the century for many decades and those people who went to such shows also thought of skating competitions as a form of entertainment, and not a competitive sport. The 6.0 system supported this way of thinking long decades. And nearly 20 years after ISU  introducted the Code of Points, this attitude is still there, sadly.

 

It is everyone's personal choice who they support or who they don't want to support, it's fine if someone supports one skater, two, twenty or all of them XD It's the fan's money, precious free time and energy after all.

[Sombreuil]

I don’t support all skaters - to  have no preferences at all seems weirdly detached to me.  Even in performance arts I have preferences.  When new skaters emerge I watch and form opinions -  I prefer Boyang Jin to Nathan Chen because his jumps are more exciting:-  initially I was impressed with Kevin Aymoz, but quickly came to realise that I preferred Roman Sadovsky’s more elegant polished style:- I love Satoko’s stylishness despite her jumps, but when Kaori came along I really loved her quite different style, and enjoy both of them more than Rika tbh.  To like all of them without preferences appears to be detached and not really invested at all in the sport - bit like me watching football.

[memae]

2 hours ago, FlyingCamel said:

 

Amazing how much work went into the costume!!

Regarding the “support all skaters equally” topic, I think there are people who do so, but I don’t think all figure skating fans should be obliged to do the same - after all this is sport and everyone will have their favourites!

 

It's interesting to read what Satomi says of it herself. I think Origin 1.0 will always be my favourite costume. I certainly thought, from the second I first saw it, that there will never be a better costume in skating ever again but I have to say, the purple Origin has grown on me so much that it is now a very close second. (I also loved Shoma's first SP costume last season. I'm not sure who designed it but I thought it was so different and so great on Shoma).

[memae]

22 minutes ago, Sombreuil said:

I don’t support all skaters - to  have no preferences at all seems weirdly detached to me.  Even in performance arts I have preferences.  When new skaters emerge I watch and form opinions -  I prefer Boyang Jin to Nathan Chen because his jumps are more exciting:-  initially I was impressed with Kevin Aymoz, but quickly came to realise that I preferred Roman Sadovsky’s more elegant polished style:- I love Satoko’s stylishness despite her jumps, but when Kaori came along I really loved her quite different style, and enjoy both of them more than Rika tbh.  To like all of them without preferences appears to be detached and not really invested at all in the sport - bit like me watching football.

 

For me, I love the sport. I certainly have my favourites, but I adore this sport (and a few others) and I always just want the best for each skater. I will always want Yuzuru to win but I also want his competitors to skate well and continue improving. There is so much possibility in skating - in terms of personal achievements for the skaters (like Rika and Jason chasing those quads) but also achievements that mean something historically for the sport (Yuzu and his 4A pursuit, for example). It's exciting to see skaters grow in skill and succeed. It's exciting and satisfying when the quality of programs is so good that scores are close even though skaters usually build up their scores with different strengths -  Jason has triples and GOE, Roman has a couple of quads and beautiful spins, etc. 

[SitTwizzle]

3 hours ago, FlyingCamel said:

 

Amazing how much work went into the costume!!

Regarding the “support all skaters equally” topic, I think there are people who do so, but I don’t think all figure skating fans should be obliged to do the same - after all this is sport and everyone will have their favourites!

Oh, thank you @FlyingCamel, and thank you again AxelSandwich!

I had never questioned my presumption of Origin 2 costume stemming from Origin 1 costume. How wrong!

And it is not surprising that Satomi Ito should be inspired by the Spectre de la Rose (Spirit of the Rose) costume : its creator, Léon Bakst, was maybe the greatest ever ballet costume designer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Léon_Bakst

 

Here is the original costume, displayed at the Vaganova Academy Museum in Saint-Petersburg :

https://artsmeme.com/2013/11/28/nijinsky-spectre-costume-pink/

I suppose its colours have slightly muted under the light, although it is protected most of the time (the museum is, I believe, on-invitation only).

 

And here is the costume on the creator of the part, Nijinski (black-and-white photo) :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Spectre_de_la_rose#/media/File:Vaslav_Nijinsky_in_Le_spectre_de_la_rose_1911_Royal_Opera_House.jpg

 

There is no movie of Nijinski dancing this ballet, but I really believe Nikolay Tsiskaridze and Zhanna Ayupova (who are now rector and artistic director of Vaganova Academy) perfectly seized all its dimensions, visual and musical æsthetics and history.

 

I had spoken of his ballet in The Music Talk, but as a parallel with Haru yo, Koi! not Origin.

Spoiler

Speaking of Nikolay Tsiskaridze... Yesterday evening I have rewatched his Haru yo, Koi and thought about a comparison between the takes on a pink flower by the two dancing G.O.A.T., and wondered in which thread it would fit. Maybe this.

Though the differences are great between these programs. Haru yo, Koi is a solo representing the spring (with all its Japanese and YH meanings) through a cherry tree flower turning in the spring wind, whereas The Spirit of the Rose is a duo, where the young maid personifies innocence (with a very-XIXth Century, reserved style of dancing) while the rose is twofold : both an innocent (but captivating) flower and a messenger/symbol of the lust of the poet, causing a turmoil in the young maid's dreams by his "Ballets russes" sensual style of dancing. The music being XIXth Century but a waltz, rather sensual.

Warning : on the ballet video, the first ballet (11 first minutes) is The Spirit of the Rose, which I think is "general public", but it is followed by Afternoon of a Faun and Sheherazade, which I find much less so.

Here is a translation of the Théophile Gautier poem on which the ballet is based, found on mcglamorous.com :

 

Sweet lady, let your lids unclose.–
Those lids by maiden dreams caressed;
I am the phantom of the rose
You wore last night upon your breast.
Like pearls upon my petals lay
The weeping fountain’s silver tears,
Ere in the glittering array
You bore me proudly ‘mid your peers.

O lady, ’twas for you I died–
Yet have I come and will I stay;
My rosy phantom by your side
Will linger till the break of day.
Yet fear not, lady; naught claim I–
Nor mass, nor hymn, or funeral prayer;
My soul is but a perfumed sigh,
Which pure from Paradise I bear.

My death is as my life was–sweet;
Who would not die as I have done?
A fate like mine who would not meet,
Your bosom fair to lie upon?
A poet on my sentient tomb
Engraved this legend with a kiss:
‘Here lies a rose of fairest bloom;
E’en kings are jealous of its bliss.

 

Here's the original poem in French :

Soulève ta paupière close

Qu’effleure un songe virginal ;

Je suis le spectre d’une rose

Que tu portais hier au bal.

Tu me pris encore emperlée

Des pleurs d’argent de l’arrosoir,

Et parmi la fête étoilée

Tu me promenas tout le soir.

Ô toi qui de ma mort fus cause,

Sans que tu puisses le chasser

Toute la nuit mon spectre rose

À ton chevet viendra danser.

Mais ne crains rien, je ne réclame

Ni messe ni De Profundis ;

Ce léger parfum est mon âme

Et j’arrive du paradis.

Mon destin fut digne d’envie :

Pour avoir un trépas si beau,

Plus d’un aurait donné sa vie,

Car j’ai ta gorge pour tombeau,

Et sur l’albâtre où je repose

Un poète avec un baiser

Écrivit : Ci-gît une rose

Que tous les rois vont jalouser.

 

 

What are your thoughts about these two takes on a pink flower, one century distant, one Easter, the other Western, etc?

 

Edit : I corrected those faults so late...

 

[Veveco]

Try telling football fans in Europe or South America that they are supposed to cheer equally for every club and you'll get laughed at 

 

I'm not saying that you should be rude to skaters by any means (we know antis are a real thing unfortunately), but it's perfectly natural to have personal preferences and support your favorites more 

[SitTwizzle]

6 minutes ago, Veveco said:

Try telling football fans in Europe or South America that they are supposed to cheer equally for every club and you'll get laughed at 

 

I'm not saying that you should be rude to skaters by any means (we know antis are a real thing unfortunately), but it's perfectly natural to have personal preferences and support your favorites more 

Well, I am perfectly equally (un-)supportive of any football team (except the team with most supporters where I am because they tend to be more noisy when their favourite team wins).

I cannot say the same with skaters.

And it is not because it is a sport, with all the personal partiality it may imply. (And of course, the objective differences in attainment.) It is also because it is now an art, and in art, though some people can be equally good in different ways (thus generally pleasing each of us more or less because of personal preferences), most often they are not equally good. There are skaters with very good artistic sense, and/or great performers, but honestly, who can be seriously pretended to reach Yuzuru Hanyu's ankles, on an artistic level? Or, say, his waist, performance-wise? It is also political correctness that would wish us to pretend all are equally good artistically, which is objectively untrue. I don't like Prince that much, but though (like in Let's go crazy) he is often on a recitative tone, it wouldn't come to my mind to downgrade his artistic talent to that of all the rappers I have heard to this date.

This is just an epiphenomenon of a more general problem, the distortion of the word tolerance.

The real meaning of the word, in its (literal) mechanics sense as well as in its (figurative) usual sense, is to let go something undesirable (on objective or subjective grounds) for the sake of common good. This leads to harmony. And implies in no way to bar opinions.

The distorted meaning of the word, is to pretend everything is equally good inside a "window" (not unlike Overton window) and forbidding any critics or expression of preference/dislike inside this window, and to pretend everything is equally bad outside this window, forbidding any appreciation or a particular success inside a globally bad experience etc, or even exploring the causes and consequences and extent of badness of a "taboo" subject or comparison between problematic situations. (A form of manichaeism, by the way.)

In this system of distorted tolerance, all skaters must be equally good unless they happen to express something unpleasant (as if a skater was supposed to be a philosopher, some can be stupid or prejudiced on some subjects, we can well say it and reproach it to them but tolerate — real tolerance — because nobody's perfect and a skater's job is to skate, of course the level of tolerance may be a bit lower for a former skater who is now a skating reporter as he is supposed to have reflected on some serious subjects relating to the sport, but once again nobody's perfect or in full agreement with our/the world's opinions) and then they become just trash. In this system no skater can be better than another, and I wonder why there are still scores. Ah yes, to reflect the success of the day, that is the number of popped jumps or falls. But after all, they have worked so much...

I don't think this was politics because I was just trying to explain what may have prompted somebody to believe all skaters had to be equally supported, but if it is deemed to be so, please delete what you want.

 

[mercedes]

4 hours ago, Veveco said:

Try telling football fans in Europe or South America that they are supposed to cheer equally for every club and you'll get laughed at 

 

I'm not saying that you should be rude to skaters by any means (we know antis are a real thing unfortunately), but it's perfectly natural to have personal preferences and support your favorites more 

ahaha that would go down so well!

Last world championship many of my friends were rooting for Japan because Italy wasn't there,see it we were competing how many of them would have support another team!

FS is a sport,I have my faves and then i have Yuzuru,I try not to hope for other skaters to skate bad or to hurt themselves but I cannot like them all,I'm a person with my own tastes and opinion(right or wrong of course)not a computer!

When I read this things I smell a certain kind of politically correct M.O. and frankly I don't like it.

[Geo1]

9 hours ago, peach-blossom said:

So I’ve been going through Twitter and Reddit and I see loads of posts saying people should “Support all skaters equally” and I don’t really understand this. Is this something unique to the sport of skating? I’m a pretty big cricket fan and it’s unthinkable for an Indian to say we should cheer Pakistan too xD (although that’s probably the nationalist aspect coming through)

Just wanted to know your thoughts!

 

7 hours ago, CaroSkate said:

 

It feels like they actually don't really care or don't have a particular favorite skater.

 

In men's, even though I do respect all the skaters and hope they would not have a disaster skate, but I am too emotionally invested in Yuzu to root for anyone else. In ladies', I have several favorites but don't care as much, so I support them quite equally. In pairs' and ice dance, I still watch but I care even less, so I support all skaters equally.

 

These people who advocate supporting all skaters must view figure skating from the point of view of non-owner dog lovers or cat lovers at a dog or cat show.

 

I consider myself a fan of Yuzu and not necessarily a figure skating fan. Before Yuzu, I casually watched figure skating during the Olympics if I happened upon it, but it was Yuzu’s skating that got me hooked. When Yuzu retires, I may not watch figure skating again, although time will tell.

 

Therefore, since I am totally invested in Yuzu, me bad and sometimes hope that some skaters have a disaster skate.

[mercedes]

5 minutes ago, Geo1 said:

 

 

 

 

Therefore, since I am totally invested in Yuzu, me bad and sometimes hope that some skaters have a disaster skate.

LOL this makes you human ....I said i try not to hope that but I'm not always succesfull