General Yuzuru Chat

[rockstaryuzu]

2 hours ago, Henni147 said:

 

To make clear: consistency is a very broad term. It can mean:

1. constantly performing at the limits of your own ability

2. regularly medalling at international events

3. having a solid placement in the rankings for a long period of time (no big ups and downs)

4. skating clean programs again and again

5. doing the same stuff on repeat with no change

6. continuous improvement or stagnation (maybe even regression)

...

 

Taking that into consideration, Nathan's biggest weapon is skating clean in the big events (GPF, Worlds). Rotating your jumps and staying on your feet. That protects you from the PCS cap and with the right passport the judges do the rest for you.

Reminder: Nathan doesn't skate clean in every competition either. Especially at the beginning of the season he has some wobbles as well, but as long as Yuzu isn't there, it doesn't matter, because the rest of the field is too far away in BV to be dangerous. Nathan only has to be foot perfect against Yuzu and he somehow managed to do that in Saitama and Torino. I guess that his key to success is practicing his current jump arsenal on repeat and prepare himself mentally for the clash with Yuzu. That's it.

 

I love how everyone in the media ignores the fact that the base value of Yuzu's planned content in Torino was higher than Nathan's. It's another story that he couldn't execute everything as planned, but Yuzuru Hanyu is not trailing Nathan Chen in the quad race anymore. It's the opposite. With the new BV changes of the 4Lz and the 4Lo and a potential 4A in the bag Yuzu's technical advantage will even grow. It's bold to assume that Nathan is unbeatable. Yuzu needs one clean competition and things have turned upside down again.

I think most of the time when FS people talk about 'consistency', they're referencing the ability to skate a clean program and in particular to land every jump 'cleanly' . Both things which one can get by sticking to a heavily-repeated program layout. I think the fact that Yuzu changes his layout according to conditions and is still able to land almost everything exceedingly well speaks to a different skill, that of knowing all your individual elements inside and out and being able to shift on the fly no matter what's happening. 

 

As an analogy, Nathan is like the guy who learned to prepare a bunch of recipes perfectly and so he has a reputation as a good cook, and Yuzu is the guy who knows every cooking techniques there is, has an intimate understanding of the science of taste and flavour, and fearlessly draws on this knowledge to whip up amazing and delicious new dishes that no one has ever tasted before. 

 

[Lunna]

16 минут назад, rockstaryuzu сказал:

I think most of the time when FS people talk about 'consistency', they're referencing the ability to skate a clean program and in particular to land every jump 'cleanly' . Both things which one can get by sticking to a heavily-repeated program layout. I think the fact that Yuzu changes his layout according to conditions and is still able to land almost everything exceedingly well speaks to a different skill, that of knowing all your individual elements inside and out and being able to shift on the fly no matter what's happening. 

Apart from last season and injuries Yuzu preferred to stick to a certain layout through the season to get it perfect by the main comps. Nathan on the opposite played with jumps here and there, not to overwork himself when the field was not too deep during first GPs or Nats. I think sometimes Yuzu makes mistakes cuz of his particular timing to the music, sometimes gets too emotional - those things we love him for, plus lots of transitions make it harder on him too. Nathan can toss his jumps around like he wants, it's not like there's too much choreo anyway. Of course he is unique athlete too in his own way cuz a few can jump so much quads even without choreo/transitions.

The problem is based judging anyway and it's not smth new. Maybe if Yuzu was totally consistent it would be a little less exciting to follow him, who knows (but a lot more nerves would be saved, that's for sure ). The only thing I don't like the most it's to see Yuzu sad and blaming himself, though at least 4CC seemed like good restart - great end of a cursed season.

[SitTwizzle]

2 hours ago, Henni147 said:

 

If Yuzu skates foot perfect with two brand new programs, 4A and a higher base value than Nathan, there is absolutely nothing left to justify Nathan's victory.

 

Sure, Yuzu needs a miracle to make that happen, but I mean... miracles are the specialty of Yuzuru Hanyu.

I'm a little bit more optimistic.
Whatever belittling we can expect, the 4A will be "really something". It will be very hard for media (because, if judges can pass off with such shameful scores, it is thanks to media narrative, otherwise the outcry would be general) to go on pretending Yuzuru Hanyu is a "skater of the past" overcome by "talented, more athletic youth" (when I see the difference in athleticism, indeed, but the other way! After all, regarding just this difference in athleticism, it is no wonder that a 21-year-old young man is not built yet the way his elder by four years is.)

Some, not fearing ridicule (in France, we say "le ridicule ne tue pas" — ridicule doesn't kill), may argue the 4A is only 1.5 more in base value than the "difficult quads", "proving" it is "not that difficult" but it will be too evident that Yuzuru Hanyu is lone in the field.

I understand he had it just before Sendai rink closed last time, I suppose he will recover it (though I feel for him, how boring to have to re-learn everything once more), now he will have to jump it while keeping stamina enough for a strong program behind, and without asthma crisis (unless he does it in the short program, I don't know if it would be good tactics). I hope GP season can go on at least partly (if every skater can have one GP assignment, there can be a GPF after all, with special rules for this year), and he can show the blind World who he is. 

[rockstaryuzu]

2 hours ago, Lunna said:

Apart from last season and injuries Yuzu preferred to stick to a certain layout through the season to get it perfect by the main comps. Nathan on the opposite played with jumps here and there, not to overwork himself when the field was not too deep during first GPs or Nats. I think sometimes Yuzu makes mistakes cuz of his particular timing to the music, sometimes gets too emotional - those things we love him for, plus lots of transitions make it harder on him too. Nathan can toss his jumps around like he wants, it's not like there's too much choreo anyway. Of course he is unique athlete too in his own way cuz a few can jump so much quads even without choreo/transitions.

The problem is based judging anyway and it's not smth new. Maybe if Yuzu was totally consistent it would be a little less exciting to follow him, who knows (but a lot more nerves would be saved, that's for sure ). The only thing I don't like the most it's to see Yuzu sad and blaming himself, though at least 4CC seemed like good restart - great end of a cursed season.

Yuzu has said in interviews that he'll change his layouts based on ice condition, how he feels physically, and how many points he needs to get aka strategy. The fact that he's able to YOLO jumps to save a program and get more points is proof of this too. To my knowledge Nathan never plays with his jump layout. 

[Paskud]

18 minutes ago, rockstaryuzu said:

Yuzu has said in interviews that he'll change his layouts based on ice condition, how he feels physically, and how many points he needs to get aka strategy. The fact that he's able to YOLO jumps to save a program and get more points is proof of this too. To my knowledge Nathan never plays with his jump layout. 

Of course he does? He has different layout at every competition.

[amylance1215]

RIP our wallets. June is the month of Yuzu's expenses it seems. 

KISS & CRY is releasing a new issue on June 30th, which is a recap of 19-20 and an outlook on 20-21. Special intro featured Yuzu and headline "Road to GOLD" so very Yuzu-centric I'd think. Not to mention... wait for it... EXTRAS: one of two types of Yuzu resin pop-up stands (random, probably will go on Yahoo! Auction for a pretty penny later), A4-sized Yuzu sticker, and an attached poster. 

Check out this tumblr post for more pictures from the issue. 

[IULIANA]

4 hours ago, rockstaryuzu said:

. To my knowledge Nathan never plays with his jump layout. 

He is not the one to play wih the layout. Raf is. Initiative does not seem to be his feat. Ever. Or this is my impression.

[rockstaryuzu]

4 hours ago, Paskud said:

Of course he does? He has different layout at every competition.

From the protocols (that I could find) and the Planet competition threads*, the GP and national championship jump layouts: 

 

Yuzu:

SCI SP       4S 3A 4T3T       FS 4Lo 4S 3Lz 4T 4Teu3F 3A3T 3A2T

NHK  SP   4S 3A 4T3T        FS 4Lo 4S 3Lz 4T 2T 4T3T 3Aeu3S

GPF  SP   4S 3A 4Tcombo FS 4Lo 4Lz 3Lz 4S 4Teu3F 3F 4T2T 1A

JNats  SP 4S 4T3T 3A        FS 4Lo 4S 2Lz 4T 4Teu3F 3A 3T (was this a combo? not sure) 3A

 

So Origin 2.0 was different every time, Otonal was different at JNats

 

Nathan:

SkAm SP 4Lz 3A 4T3T     FS 3Lz3T 4F 4Teu2F 3A 4S 2T 3A2T

IdeF    SP 4T3T 3A 4F       FS 4Lz 3Lz2T 4Teu3F 3A 4S 4T 3A2T

GPF    SP 4Lz 3A 4T3T     FS 4F3T 4Lz 4Teu3S 3A 4S 4T 3Lz3T

USNats SP 4F 3A 4T3T    FS 4F3T 4S 4Teu3S 3A 3Lo 4T 3F3T 

 

Again, SP repeated the layout at SkAm and GPF, FS was different every time

 

To make a long story short, we're both wrong, both skaters alter the layout from competition to competition.

 

And hats off to them, it made me tired just typing these out. 

 

 

* I didn't check these against video of the performances, just trusting the satellites who post these layouts that they're correct. 

[Ririka]

On 5/31/2020 at 2:28 PM, Fay said:

This post has a picture of Yuzu’s message if that’s any help to anyone. 
And there’s a glorious Yuzu+Javi picture here. Along with the famous phone case. 

 

Oh!!! Whose signature is that on the phone case! I can’t really recall hahaha

[ralucutzagy]

44 minutes ago, Ririka said:

Oh!!! Whose signature is that on the phone case! I can’t really recall hahaha

Javi's, iirc

[ralucutzagy]

 

 

[Fay]

Time to hunt for new clear files!
https://www.nishikawa1566.com/contents/nishikawa-cool/

[Songster01]

I don't think I saw anyone mention this here (apologies if I missed it!): something to consider when asking when might Yuzu return to TCC is the current Skate Ontario rule from its State 1 Return to Play Protocols:

Quote

All individuals taking part in club/skating school activities must self-screen in accordance with current public heath guidelines before each training session. Individuals must not attend any training sessions or club activities if they:
•Exhibit any COVID-19 symptoms, such as a fever, cough, difficulty breathing, or other symptoms identified by health experts
•Have been in contact with someone with COVID-19 in the past 14 days
•Have returned from travel outside of Canada (must quarantine for 14 days at home)
•Are considered a vulnerable or at-risk individual (individuals over 70 years, weakened immune system or medical conditions such as heart disease, lung disease, cancer etc.

 

Asthma is considered a lung disease, so I suspect he'd not be permitted at the rink at this time because it would go against Stage 1 rules.  Of course those rules may change once we get to a later stage in re-opening.  The X factor is at what stage they might loosen that particular restriction and when does Ontario get there.  Right now our cases have not been going down decisively and we are still watching to see how the latest Stage 1 re-openings have affected things.  Regardless of where cases are at, I'm still not convinced that we should move on to Stage 2 until we have enough PPE for people forced to go to a workplace and I'm not sure that we have enough tracers to handle a major flare-up when more and more people are moving about (easier to trace during a strict lockdown).  Obviously ordinary people will have to do their part in not letting things go as the summer weather becomes more consistent, by following social distancing guidelines, washing hands frequently, and wearing masks if you know people might get withing in 3-4 meters of you, such as in shops or some workplaces.  I personally don't want rules to be relaxed just so a skating fave can return, or for any other reason except that solid science shows it's safe to do so.  Real lives are at stake and if they feel for safety's sake they need to keep those in place, then I am for it. 

 

Link to document: https://skateontario.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/Return-to-Play-Protocols-Skate-Ontario-1.2-2.pdf

[memae]

12 hours ago, Henni147 said:

 

To make clear: consistency is a very broad term. It can mean:

1. constantly performing at the limits of your own ability

2. regularly medalling at international events

3. having a solid placement in the rankings for a long period of time (no big ups and downs)

4. skating clean programs again and again

5. doing the same stuff on repeat with no change

6. continuous improvement or stagnation (maybe even regression)

...

 

Taking that into consideration, Nathan's biggest weapon is skating clean in the big events (GPF, Worlds). Rotating your jumps and staying on your feet. That protects you from the PCS cap and with the right passport the judges do the rest for you.

Reminder: Nathan doesn't skate clean in every competition either. Especially at the beginning of the season he has some wobbles as well, but as long as Yuzu isn't there, it doesn't matter, because the rest of the field is too far away in BV to be dangerous. Nathan only has to be foot perfect against Yuzu and he somehow managed to do that in Saitama and Torino. I guess that his key to success is practicing his current jump arsenal on repeat and prepare himself mentally for the clash with Yuzu. That's it.

 

I love how everyone in the media ignores the fact that the base value of Yuzu's planned content in Torino was higher than Nathan's. It's another story that he couldn't execute everything as planned, but Yuzuru Hanyu is not trailing Nathan Chen in the quad race anymore. It's the opposite. With the new BV changes of the 4Lz and the 4Lo and a potential 4A in the bag Yuzu's technical advantage will even grow. It's bold to assume that Nathan is unbeatable. Yuzu needs one clean competition and things have turned upside down again.

 

Agreed, and also it wasn't just that Nathan was foot-perfect in Saitama and Torino but also that Yuzu wasn't. He popped at both (SP in Saitama, and that incredible 3A-3A in Torino) and he also messed up his combo in the short at Torino. He lost a lot of points. We haven't seen them both skate clean head-to-head since... well, I'm struggling to remember but it'll probably be back when Nathan was new to senior (but even then, he had that trickster of a 3A out to get him so maybe it hasn't actually happened). 

 

But with the value change, Nathan loses a half point for the base value of the jump that most people probably associate him with and Yuzu is gaining a half for the jump he can do that no one else really can - except (pretty much) Nathan. I know he said he doesn't like it and it's scary in the GPF press conference, but I do think it's very possible it'll be making a return to his repertoire because of the increase in value and because he is going to need it if Yuzu skates clean (especially if he does pursue a 5-quad layout in the free, and if he switches his jumps in the short for ones with higher BV). Yuzu has a lot of spots to find points if he's okay with risking consistency a bit more. He's got the WR with a 4S and a 4T-3T while his closest competitors are throwing in 4Lz and 4F.

 

(Also, just a little aside: the corresponding triples changed value too, didn't they? I wonder if we might see some more -3Lo combinations in the men's instead of the eu-3S or -3T if it's worth a bit more. I love a triple loop as the second half of a combo (or both jumps) and the ladies use them everywhere but we don't see them much in the men's.) 

[rockstaryuzu]

42 minutes ago, Fay said:

Time to hunt for new clear files!
https://www.nishikawa1566.com/contents/nishikawa-cool/

What a deal!! You only have to buy a clear file, and they give you a choice of bedding product, up to and including mattresses...