General Yuzuru Chat

[Tlinh2610]

7 minutes ago, Anzi said:

Just watched Nathan Chen's SP in Skate American 2018. I see a lot improvement and I am glad he makes the program more vivid by adding more body movement. But they still look a lit bit stiff...

 

I know it not fair to compare him with Yuzu. But as long as you watched Yuzu's performance it is hard to not compare others with him. Yuzu is THE standard.

Well, I’ve been spoiled by Yuzu 😂😂😂. Nathan has improved but his SP still had just as many TR as all of his other programs which means none...

[ruruzest]

19 minutes ago, makebelieveup said:

 

 

The master knows what were his best. But why no hope and legacy thoooo Just the name of the program should explain itself 

Yes ! This! Maybe the subtlety of the program and its personal meaning ( his own story) is too private to be performed by others but him? Anyway I love H&l the minutes I saw it!

[shanshani]

22 minutes ago, makebelieveup said:

 

If I remember correctly, he did in practice but not in the competition

This is correct. He jumped it quite a few times in practice, actually, so there's a decent chance we'll see it at some point in competition this season. If I remember correctly he jumped it in the same place he jumped his 3Lo, so it's possibly intended to be an alternative to that jump.

edit: wait, he also jumped 3F2T. Probably not a 3Lo alternative then. I should go review the practice videos I took.

[ruruzest]

18 minutes ago, Anzi said:

Just watched Nathan Chen's SP in Skate American 2018. I see a lot improvement and I am glad he makes the program more vivid by adding more body movement. But they still look a lit bit stiff...

 

I know it not fair to compare him with Yuzu. But as long as you watched Yuzu's performance it is hard to not compare others with him. Yuzu is THE standard.

I love it! His playfulnes! It’s fun to watch!Let’s hope he doesn’t butcher it the same way he did with Nemesis! Think about it, unique music with Shaw- lyn choreo , great potential and in the end... 

 

[makebelieveup]

Guyss, I kept rewatching Otonal and while it did seem less fleeting the more I watch it, I still think that it wasrather incomplete? Not everyone watches Yuzu's programs 1000 times each competition like us fanyus so first impression is important and I remember how my first impression (and till now) of it is "it ended aleady?"

 

Don't you guys feel like having the layout makes it just a tad unbalance - we have many jumps and 1 spin in the first half and then the ss and 2 spins in the 2nd half. It doesnt feel like it was wrapped up nicely. Yes, I do think that this is a beautiful program but I guess by Yuzu's standard, it doesnt feel enough. I cant help but compared it to Chopin since they are both melodic, classical music pieces that carry the same quiet temperament in the first half and then powerful dynamic during the ss. So to me, Chopin is a superior program, but that's unfair because Chopin has gone through 3 seasons with 3 different layouts so its obviously super fleshed out by the final season. Everything was fine tuned to the nth degree while Otonal is still a work in progress. I wasnt a fan when Chopin 1.0 or 2.0 debuted so I'm wondering if you guys had any similar experience with Chopin 1.0. At least, to me just from rewatching Chopin 2.0 after I became a fan, I found nothing wrong with it. It was already perfect program from start to finish and 3.0 only somehow made it better in terms of the performance (at this point Yuzu could do it in his sleep). 

 

Back to Otonal's layout, I'm thinking either 4loop or 4Sal would give the same ethereal effect as the starting jump. Also, there are many parts in the first half where we can squeeze two glorious spins in rather than the jump combos. I'd suggest keeping the twizzle 3a as is since he was right on the notes there. The twizzle  entry and exit also serve as a choreo movement that the theme of the program - like some kind of movements of the autumn leaves. If not then maybe change that to a backcounter 3A and place it right before the SS (get rid of that spin). Then maybe instead of the 'idk what you call it' jump that came out from the hydroblade, do a combo there. Would that be too risky? Maybe discard the hydroblade even? I didnt think it add much to the program. To me the most awkward part of the program was how the music transitioned from the ss to the final spin. Thats the part that made the program felt like it ended too quickly. So replaced with the combos, if landed perfectly, the scream of the audience could mask the music transition and at the same time, assists the program in amplifying the dynamic going into the ending spin

 

So if you cant imagine what I've been trying to advocate:

 

4Loop or 4Sal - edge jumps suit the program more

CSSp

FCSp

Twizzle 3A as is or

Counter 3A closer right before ss

SS

4S3T or 4T3T

CCoSp

 

This is probably a lot similar to Chopin but hey if it aint broke dont fix it. 

[kiches]

24 minutes ago, shanshani said:

This is correct. He jumped it quite a few times in practice, actually, so there's a decent chance we'll see it at some point in competition this season. If I remember correctly he jumped it in the same place he jumped his 3Lo, so it's possibly intended to be an alternative to that jump.

edit: wait, he also jumped 3F2T. Probably not a 3Lo alternative then. I should go review the practice videos I took.

Yes he did 3F and 3F2T in practice. His intention was to place 3F2T where he previously has the 3A2T and replace the 4T1Eu3S with the 4T3A, but he popped so he didn’t do the flip in competition. He didn’t actually practice 4T1Eu3S at ACI so I think this is his actual planned content. 

[makebelieveup]

31 minutes ago, ruruzest said:

Yes ! This! Maybe the subtlety of the program and its personal meaning ( his own story) is too private to be performed by others but him? Anyway I love H&l the minutes I saw it!

I agree! While Yuzu's skating style is so versatile that he IS what any of his program requires him to be, H&L just feels like it's HIS skating. No one else can deliver that program like he does. 

[Murieleirum]

5 minutes ago, makebelieveup said:

This is probably a lot similar to Chopin but hey if it aint broke dont fix it. 

 

Maybe these are two possible reasons why you feel Otonal is a little 'unfinished' and feels weird: 1) because the layout is completely different from Chopin (and also different from any other layout he has ever done), so we are not used to it, and 2) because it IS the program's first outing and Yuzuru's performance wasn't the best. I think improvement on the spins and more energy on the StSeq will change the program drastically. His mistakes in the spins make you detatch a little from the music and the program, at least they have this result on me. Also, the music is quiet and delicate, a la Hope and Legacy, meaning that Otonal will become one of those programs that will not work unless they are perfect! 

[ruruzest]

[makebelieveup]

1 minute ago, Murieleirum said:

 

Maybe these are two possible reasons why you feel Otonal is a little 'unfinished' and feels weird: 1) because the layout is completely different from Chopin (and also different from any other layout he has ever done), so we are not used to it, and 2) because it IS the program's first outing and Yuzuru's performance wasn't the best. I think improvement on the spins and more energy on the StSeq will change the program drastically. His mistakes in the spins make you detatch a little from the music and the program, at least they have this result on me. Also, the music is quiet and delicate, a la Hope and Legacy, meaning that Otonal will become one of those programs that will not work unless they are perfect! 

 

That is true, I would give it another chance at GP Helsinki. But taking away the failed spin, the energy he carried at ACI was fine to me. So I think the problem I have with it has more to do with the placement of the technical elements. Also, I probably said this before about Otonal is that the music is so hard to get good cuts. The transition near the ending annoys me personally. Well I do believe in Yuzu and Jeff so waiting waiting 

[KatjaThera]

16 minutes ago, makebelieveup said:

Guyss, I kept rewatching Otonal and while it does seem less fleeting the more I watch it, I still think that its rather incomplete? Not everyone watches Yuzu's programs 1000 times each competition like us fanyus so first impression is important and I remember how my first impression (and till now) of it is "it ended aleady?"

 

Don't you guys feel like having the layout makes it just a tad unbalance - we have many jumps and 1 spin in the first half and then the ss and 2 spins in the 2nd half. It doesnt feel like it was wrapped up nicely. Yes, I do think that this is a beautiful program but I guess by Yuzu's standard, it doesnt feel enough. I cant help but compared it to Chopin since they are both melodic, classical music pieces that carry the same quiet temperament in the first half and then powerful dynamic during the ss. So to me, Chopin is a superior program, but that's unfair because Chopin has gone through 3 seasons with 3 different layouts so its obviously super fleshed out by the final season. Everything was fine tuned to the nth degree while Otonal is still a work in progress. I wasnt a fan when Chopin 1.0 or 2.0 debuted so I'm wondering if you guys had any similar experience with Chopin 1.0. At least, to me just from rewatching Chopin 2.0 after I became a fan, I found nothing wrong with it. It was already perfect program from start to finish and 3.0 only somehow made it better in terms of the performance (at this point Yuzu could do it in his sleep). 

 

Back to Otonal's layout, I'm thinking either 4loop or 4Sal would give the same ethereal effect as the starting jump. Also, there are many parts in the first half where we can squeeze two glorious spins in rather than the jump combos. I'd suggest keeping the twizzle 3a as is since he was right on the notes there. The twizzle  entry and exit also serve as a choreo movement that the theme of the program - like some kind of movements of the autumn leaves. If not then maybe change that to a backcounter 3A and place it right before the SS (get ride of that spin). Then maybe instead of the 'idk what you call it' jump that came out from the hydroblade, do a combo there. Would that be too risky? Maybe discard the hydroblade even? I didnt think it add much to the program. To me the most awkward part of the program was how the music transitioned from the ss to the final spin. Thats the part that made the program felt like it ended too quickly. So replaced with the combos, if landed perfectly, the scream of the audience could mask the music transition and at the same time, assists the program in amplifying the dynamic going into the ending spin

 

So if you cant imagine what I've been trying to advocate:

 

4Loop or 4Sal - edge jumps suit the program more

CSSp

FCSp

Twizzle 3A as is or

Counter 3A closer right before ss

SS

4S3T or 4T3T

CCoSp

 

This is probably a lot similar to Chopin but hey if it aint broke dont fix it. 

I think it's way too early to judge. Hope and Legacy is the best proof that Yuzu's programs grow throughout the season. While other skaters tend to lose content as the season progresses, Yuzu usually gains it, as the elements get polished and he can start feeling in the blanks. If anyone wants to dismiss Otonal and/or Origin at this point, IMO it's their loss.

 

More specifically, about your comment, I personally also feel there is stuff missing. But I think that's because for now he's just focusing on getting the elements right. The timing, the execution, seeing if everything works as he wants it to. Practice is one thing, but it's when he does it in competition that he really figures out if some things work or not. And later on, he'll start building on it. But the overall construction of the program doesn't bother me. I get the kind of balance he's probably aiming for. The first half is slow music, but the jumps give it some dynamic. The second half, the music picks up and there's that very energetic step sequence, but no jumps. If there were more jumps in the second half, I think it'd feel even more unbalanced. However, I also wouldn't be surprised if he'll decide to shift things around after all.

 

The bottom line, IMO, is that he's trying new stuff. He has no reason to stick to the patterns that worked before, not anymore. On the contrary, I think he wants to challenge new things. New layouts, new spins, new entries and exits to jumps, new combinations etc. So I'd be surprised if he went back to the Chopin layout, or even something similar. But maybe his kuyashii will be stronger lol

 

I actually get a bit confused watching Origin, also because it's different. I think we're just too used to the patterns he's been using for years, so it's going to take some time to get used to the new ones. Or at least I think that's my case. But somehow, I find it easier for Otonal than Origin. Maybe because Origin is longer.

[makebelieveup]

14 minutes ago, KatjaThera said:

I think it's way too early to judge. Hope and Legacy is the best proof that Yuzu's programs grow throughout the season. While other skaters tend to lose content as the season progresses, Yuzu usually gains it, as the elements get polished and he can start feeling in the blanks. If anyone wants to dismiss Otonal and/or Origin at this point, IMO it's their loss.

 

More specifically, about your comment, I personally also feel there is stuff missing. But I think that's because for now he's just focusing on getting the elements right. The timing, the execution, seeing if everything works as he wants it to. Practice is one thing, but it's when he does it in competition that he really figures out if some things work or not. And later on, he'll start building on it. But the overall construction of the program doesn't bother me. I get the kind of balance he's probably aiming for. The first half is slow music, but the jumps give it some dynamic. The second half, the music picks up and there's that very energetic step sequence, but no jumps. If there were more jumps in the second half, I think it'd feel even more unbalanced. However, I also wouldn't be surprised if he'll decide to shift things around after all.

 

The bottom line, IMO, is that he's trying new stuff. He has no reason to stick to the patterns that worked before, not anymore. On the contrary, I think he wants to challenge new things. New layouts, new spins, new entries and exits to jumps, new combinations etc. So I'd be surprised if he went back to the Chopin layout, or even something similar. But maybe his kuyashii will be stronger lol

 

I actually get a bit confused watching Origin, also because it's different. I think we're just too used to the patterns he's been using for years, so it's going to take some time to get used to the new ones. Or at least I think that's my case. But somehow, I find it easier for Otonal than Origin. Maybe because Origin is longer.

 

yeah I just want to confirm whether it was only me who thinks Otonal is different or you guys felt the same way about Chopin or any of his previous SP before. Surprisingly, I don't think Origin was that different eventhough I do think it's even more packed and difficult. 

 

You're right about the fact that it's his time to try new things. He is currently the only one who can afford this with how much he's achieved and what he's done for it. But yeahh no matter what, scores and winning are still important to him. So maybe trying a new layout was just the post PyeongChang and pre-ACI Yuzu? lol Just hope that his effort gets paid off here

[Yuazz]

Honestly, I was surprised that Otonal is so good at the first competition despite the mistake on the spins. I enjoyed watching Otonal more than Origin for now. But Origin has big potential to be my favorite when it's clean. We will see as the season goes. And yes it's too early to judge. Remember when you guys complaining when yuzu brings back Chopin last year. And we got ACI WR Chopin and we all dead. 😂 I guess we just surrender to yuzu's skating. When Otonal is perfectly clean, I'm sure we'll all be like  , same with Origin.

[MarthEmblem]

4 minutes ago, Yuazz said:

Remember when you guys complaining when yuzu brings back Chopin last year. And we got ACI WR Chopin and we all dead. 😂 I guess we just surrender to yuzu's skating. When Otonal is perfectly clean, I'm sure we'll all be like  , same with Origin.

 

I mean for me, even with the perfect performance at ACI, I was still a little like "why Chopin again?" and half-wishing he stuck with LGC. But then Olympic Chopin and that Ina Bauer happened and I promptly fell over and died

[Pink Elephants]

I agree Otonal feels more unfinished... but it is a work in progress The Chopin took three seasons and many attempts to perfect into a masterpiece, and this we've only seen one time... and he just started training it fairly recent. To me it's still a sketch, I think he'll get a hang of it soon enough so we'll get to see it as it was meant to be (I do wish it was something different like LGC but it's a tribute so I get it:))