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7 hours ago, Henni147 said:

He was not talking only about himself here. He used that "we" as a generalization of the whole men's field. Deliberately. This was not just a slip, not then and not now. He knows exactly what he said there and yes, he clearly wants to see men's figure skating change into an acrobatic direction. This is not just about his own style and decisions, but the sport as a whole. The problem with his recent interview is not just the choice of words, but especially message behind it, which is outrageous

I think we are all agreed on the fact that the underlying, general, idea here - the erroneous belief that figure skating somehow needs to be rescued from the prejudices of a judgmental society by means of making it more 'athletic' and 'manly' through the considered neglect of elements such as complex, technically challenging step sequences, beautiful edges,  etc and the addition of modern vocal music, to the detriment of the performance as a whole, is repugnant and comes from a place of misogyny and homophobia. 

 

 

On the other hand, what I see is that there's a mix of opinions on Nathan's words on the matter, and whether they were intentional or not. No one actually agrees with what he said; some want to pillory him, while others aren't so sure it's warranted. 

 

Either way, his words and actions are dubious, but I personally don't see what's to be gained from giving him the gears on social media.  If the goal is to enlighten him and  get him to evolve and change his mind, then harsh attacks aren't going to accomplish that. Reasoned debate might work though. Asking him if he really believes what he said in that interview, finding out why he believes it, and then using that to get him to reconsider his point of view would bring about more lasting change, IMO. I know this is hard to do, especially when it's a subject that hits emotionally close to home for people, but in the end its the best way to change hearts and minds. 

 

My 2c, fwiw. 

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42 minutes ago, rockstaryuzu said:

Either way, his words and actions are dubious, but I personally don't see what's to be gained from giving him the gears on social media. If the goal is to enlighten him and  get him to evolve and change his mind, then harsh attacks aren't going to accomplish that. Reasoned debate might work though. Asking him if he really believes what he said in that interview, finding out why he believes it, and then using that to get him to reconsider his point of view would bring about more lasting change, IMO. I know this is hard to do, especially when it's a subject that hits emotionally close to home for people, but in the end its the best way to change hearts and minds.

 

Honestly? I doubt that he will ever change his mind and attitude towards skating. Why should he, when most people in charge want to go the same direction as him? He would be stupid to change anything. And I don't think, it's that easy to change your general mindset, even if you wanted to. He would need to drop his questionable group of friends first and basically his entire social surrounding to move a step forward and I doubt that this will happen.

 

No. This is about two key issues:

a) We cannot change the fact that Nathan is one of the main ambassadors for figure skating heading to Beijing. Whatever he thinks about the sport innerly, he should finally learn to give proper interviews and represent the men's field in a way that he doesn't publicly slap his fellow skaters or tramples on the history and traditions of figure skating. This is the absolute bare minimum you expect from a three-time world champion and I hope he learned his lesson now.

 

b) I hope that the loud voicing in the fandom will be heard by some international journalists and critically reviewed before the Olympics. The German ARD (who also uploaded LMEY) is currently running a series of excellent sports documentaries with decent viewership and great feedback. Two of their best contributions are about the enormous mental stress and coaching terror in gymnastics and the big issue of athletes who were lured into doping scandals without their knowledge. I can imagine that they may create a documentary about our spicy gender topic in figure skating as well in the near future.

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3 hours ago, Henni147 said:

I know this is OT, but that's an extremely fascinating topic in itself. 

 

I agree with loud(ish) voicing as long as it is geared towards gaining a positive result and isn't simply about tearing someone down in order to vent one's ire. The end goal should be to make things better for everyone, not to make one individual feel like a heel. 

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I find it extremely difficult to believe that a former training mate of poster boy Adam Rippon isn’t well aware of all these issues.  The inarticulate ramble doesn’t say much for Ivy League education either. 

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On 7/26/2021 at 8:50 PM, Melodie said:

ya think he wrote the script himself or someone wrote it for him? 

The way his eyes keep flitting to his left, the lack of spontaneaity, the concepts he talks about: my $$$ on scripted and plagiarized 

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On 7/29/2021 at 9:29 AM, yuzuangel said:

Well, to them, it's just about the language i guess. "How to be more politically correct," not "how to have less internalized homophobia."

 

On 7/29/2021 at 10:11 PM, Melodie said:

 

 

🤨

 

Although these two are not overtly related issues, they both stem from the same place: a lack of will to correct the underlying problem

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On 7/28/2021 at 12:31 AM, Mary_kyo said:

There is no need to play mental gymnastics to find a way to water down Nathan’s horrible words. You just contradicted yourself here. Yes, it was obviously written by his agency and no, him reciting other people’s words is not considered sincere lol wtf

 

The way you are trying to find excuses for him being homophobic lol Nope, all this shows that he is suffering from fragile masculinity, has no understanding and respect for artistic skating (this part was actually proven years ago in his past interviews tho, so his now disgusting comments should be of no surprise)

 

it is not an interesting quote. Just a very poor attempt to justify Nathan. Read this thread carefully, think deeply and then if you subtly try again to excuse Nathan’s comments, then sorry, you are not a decent person as well:

 

Edit: also fs.delight is on instagram

OK, so not agreeing with you means I'm not a decent person. I let you think about this.

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On 7/28/2021 at 8:58 PM, rockstaryuzu said:

I know this is OT, but that's an extremely fascinating topic in itself. 

 

I agree with loud(ish) voicing as long as it is geared towards gaining a positive result and isn't simply about tearing someone down in order to vent one's ire. The end goal should be to make things better for everyone, not to make one individual feel like a heel. 

Exactly. I was reading your messages since mine and you worded everything perfectly.

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On 7/28/2021 at 8:59 AM, Henni147 said:

You know what annoys me the most about this whole situation?

 

This is not the first time that Nathan said more than questionable stuff. I still remember vividly his quote:

"If something you really want to watch is artistry, go watch ice dancing. I think with what we're doing now, we're bringing such an athletic aspect to the sport."   Source

 

EDIT

He was not talking only about himself here. He used that "we" as a generalization of the whole men's field. Deliberately. This was not just a slip, not then and not now. He knows exactly what he said there and yes, he clearly wants to see men's figure skating change into an acrobatic direction. This is not just about his own style and decisions, but the sport as a whole. The problem with his recent interview is not just the choice of words, but especially message behind it, which is outrageous.

 

And what was the media's reaction? NOTHING. DEAD SILENCE. They conveniently sweep everything under the rug, as if nothing had happened. Some people even defend and support him.

 

Remember what happened to Javi in Sochi, when he joked that the "gays should behave in Russia"? He was torn apart by the press, publicly labelled as a homophobe by Spanish and also international journalists right before the men's Olympic short program. I still see Brian and Tracy how they tried everything to comfort him and begged him to compete, not to throw everything away what he's been working for years.   Source (segment starts around 11:18)

 

Guess how old he was there? Exactly, 23 like Nathan is now. Interestingly the media had no scruples to call Javi out and defend the LGBTQ society then. Now, when it's not just some silly joke, but a serious and very harmful agenda that has been systemically pushed for years... nothing happens.

 

Footnote: I do not mean to defend Javi. He should have known that the sharks in the media are always lurking for every crumb they can turn into a scandal and he served it on a silver platter.

In my opinion, so that's worth what it's worth, Javi was trashed because he was coming from a small fed which did not support him at all and no media support at all in his own country. So he was an "easy prey". On the other hand, Nathan is very well supported by his fed and the US media. Though he got trashed by the social media warriors. IMHB, none of them should have been trashed by anyone. I understood Javi words as he was worrying for the gay athletes knowing how homophobic Russian media can be, and I understood Nathan words as he was trying to prove the US homophobic you can be straight and perform in figure skating.

A nice and famous fanyu on twitter who wrote successive messages about the Nathan words shows you need to stop and thing before calling him homophobic:

 

https://twitter.com/Fran_klymydear/status/1419292702777151495?s=20

https://twitter.com/Fran_klymydear/status/1419642980194033667?s=20

https://twitter.com/Fran_klymydear/status/1419930431173152768?s=20

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