2 minutes ago, WinForPooh said:

The PCS gap between Yuzu and the rest is still there, even if smaller. This is the last really big competition before the Olympics to bump them up, isn't it? Nationals are there but that's different. So I think the aim was to get Nathan as close to Shoma as possible, and JSF was trying to keep Shoma as ahead of the rest of the pack as possible. Could they go from averaging 9-9.25 to 9.5-9.75 (from really really good to damn near perfect) by PC? In a rational world I'd find it hard to believe because that should be the hardest gap to bridge but hey, we left that world behind. So we'll see in the free.

 

In the SP, maybe. They're both much stronger in the SP, which are really good vehicles for them. I don't think Nathan will get over 92 at most in his FS. Shoma, if clean, might get 94-95. FS is a different beast. But TES will be huge if clean there anyway. 

2 minutes ago, WinForPooh said:

The PCS gap between Yuzu and the rest is still there, even if smaller. This is the last really big competition before the Olympics to bump them up, isn't it? Nationals are there but that's different. So I think the aim was to get Nathan as close to Shoma as possible, and JSF was trying to keep Shoma as ahead of the rest of the pack as possible. Could they go from averaging 9-9.25 to 9.5-9.75 (from really really good to damn near perfect) by PC? In a rational world I'd find it hard to believe because that should be the hardest gap to bridge but hey, we left that world behind. So we'll see in the free.

But as Xeyra pointed out, the big PCS and GOE kings were not here this time. So relative to the skaters who are actually here they would be marked higher. If Javi, Patrick or Yuzu were actually present, the scores for Nate and Shoma might actually be quite different from today. 

4 minutes ago, Xen said:

But as Xeyra pointed out, the big PCS and GOE kings were not here this time. So relative to the skaters who are actually here they would be marked higher. If Javi, Patrick or Yuzu were actually present, the scores for Nate and Shoma might actually be quite different from today. 

Nathan got close to 43 for his SP at CoR, which I think is the last time one of Yuzu/Patrick/Javi and Nathan/Shoma were in the same competition. He got 42.97 for that. He got 45.18 now. So it's not that drastic a bump for him, considering what kind of season it's been and what kind of inflation we've seen. We might have seen 47-48.5 for Yuzu/Patrick/Javi and 44-45 for Nathan if they'd been there, maybe. But he was always going to go up from that 42.97 by GPF.

1 minute ago, WinForPooh said:

Nathan got close to 43 for his SP at CoR, which I think is the last time one of Yuzu/Patrick/Javi and Nathan/Shoma were in the same competition. He got 42.97 for that. He got 45.18 now. So it's not that drastic a bump for him, considering what kind of season it's been and what kind of inflation we've seen. We might have seen 47-48.5 for Yuzu/Patrick/Javi and 44-45 for Nathan if they'd been there, maybe. But he was always going to go up from that 42.97 by GPF.

Well yes, he'd have gone up. But my guess is that if Yuzu/Patrick/Javi were at GPF this time, the score may have been under 45, more like a 44.  Anyways, the real battle seems to be over GOEs now. 

Just now, Xen said:

Well yes, he'd have gone up. But my guess is that if Yuzu/Patrick/Javi were at GPF this time, the score may have been under 45, more like a 44.  Anyways, the real battle seems to be over GOEs now. 

You know, I think he might have got less of a PCS bump if one of those three had been at GPF and had skated cleanish, but not perfectly. They keep Yuzu under 47 when he's not clean and not having that gap might have been too much of a leap even with politics. A perfect Yuzu goes well over 48. A more than three point gap might still have looked plausibly explained.

 

 

25 minutes ago, xeyra said:

 

In the SP, maybe. They're both much stronger in the SP, which are really good vehicles for them. I don't think Nathan will get over 92 at most in his FS. Shoma, if clean, might get 94-95. FS is a different beast. But TES will be huge if clean there anyway. 

Remember, Nathan was scored higher for his free at CoR than his SP. On all components.

 

I give up, there is no logic to this.

Just now, WinForPooh said:

You know, I think he might have got less of a PCS bump if one of those three had been at GPF and had skated cleanish, but not perfectly. They keep Yuzu under 47 when he's not clean and not having that gap might have been too much of a leap even with politics. A perfect Yuzu goes well over 48. A more than three point gap might still have looked plausibly explained.

 

 

Yeah, I think while I expect the PCs this time to be higher than previous GPs, the real issue is that the trinity of Patrick/Javi/Yuzu isn't here. So assuming PCS inflates with the quad count, guys without quads are not good as a comparison base, which means Adam and Jason will not be used as comparison. This leaves Mikhail and Sergei, both of whom don't have enough of a reputation to really leverage against Nate or Shoma. If the judges score Nate and Shoma high, in the same competition a clean-ish Pchiddy/Javi/Yuzu will still need to be scored even higher-simply because it doesn't make sense otherwise. I know logic has left the building to a degree, but not fully as the comparative logic remains. 

 

3 hours ago, WinForPooh said:

Adam got a little carrot for his 3Lz. UR, not downgraded.

Oh so Adam did get a carrot. Haven't checked the protocols yet.

At least there's that 

29 minutes ago, katonice said:

Oh so Adam did get a carrot. Haven't checked the protocols yet.

At least there's that 

If they call one UR they should call them all.

 

I feel my rage headache coming.

I have finally seen the performances of the men. The SP od Nathan remains the smarter and more agreable one in this comp; still I don't like so much his skating style / general stiffness and also the spins here were too slow and not well done. Also: can you explain to me how do you read his IN of this...? Which is the relation with Clementine "Nemesis"?

I still don't buy the IN and CO for Shoma "Winter", but it's clear that the judges don't agree with me, though I have to recognize that, aside from the quality crossovers and in general two-feet skating, he was the best in SS here (but not so much over 9...!). I see other problems here in the spins.

I like very much the jumps and the skate of Kolyada, but still he has a lot to improve in this SP.  For the other three I agree with a lot of things already said here before.

 

Said that, after what I have seen in this and in last season, and also after some explanations given by Ambesi&Dolfini in their last podcasts and some good posts of gkelly in a couple of new threads in GS, my conclusion is that PCS are becoming a lost battle till the OGM.

If you have a planned high technical content - that the judges know before, obviously - , a certain reputation/ background - also known by the judges - and you are skating in the last / top group, automatically scores are starting at 8.25/9.00.

Then it depends on the comps, on the competitors and on relative cleaness to score more in the range of 8.50-9,00 or to surpass them, scoring in the 9.00-9.50 or more.

Considered that GPF is seen as an elite/top comp, they had already in mind to scores the firsts among 9.00-9.50 to layer down proportionally for the others.

 

The set up for the scores is made essentially by the impression received in SS, with TR set at 0.10-0.25 less than them just "because" - i.e. without really look at them for difficulty, variety etc..., but because this is the range in which they usually are in comparison with SS - an by the smartness of CO combined with a sometimes very artificial IN, that have immediate reflection also in PE, despite the actual performance.

 

I say again that Yuzuru has been all the time very conscious of that, and his plan (to rise the BV and to mantain high quality of jumps to have good GOEs, not lowering guard in PCS) was the best to play in his position.

At the end of the six performances I realised once again how I miss Yuzu's skating: to me these were some more or less good skates, but I could not perceive any soul in them nor I could see any fire flying out there on the ice ...

Isn't Shoma's fall on the 3A supposed to -4 GOE? 

Just now, yuzuangel said:

Isn't Shoma's fall on the 3A supposed to -4 GOE? 

Aren't falls on 3A only -3? Still I don't understand how it didn't get an automatic -3 

2 minutes ago, kelly said:

Aren't falls on 3A only -3? Still I don't understand how it didn't get an automatic -3 

oh, yeah, maybe. i guess that only applies to quads even tho 3As are 1.0x GOE scaling too?

1 minute ago, yuzuangel said:

oh, yeah, maybe. i guess that only applies to quads even tho 3As are 1.0x GOE scaling too?

Yeah iirc, -4 are only for falls on quads

3 minutes ago, kelly said:

Yeah iirc, -4 are only for falls on quads

oh, ok. yeah.....