The -1 GOE deduction on fall of Uno's 3A just made my daysomeone please be that kind to send our beloved French judge J9 a free eye examination / mental health check for Xmas gift

1 hour ago, Xen said:

Well yes, he'd have gone up. But my guess is that if Yuzu/Patrick/Javi were at GPF this time, the score may have been under 45, more like a 44.  Anyways, the real battle seems to be over GOEs now. 

Shoma was here today and he has way better SS than Nathan. Still Nathan got 45. I don't think it would have changed anything in Nathan's PCS if Yuzu or Javier were here. 

1 hour ago, Xen said:

Yeah, I think while I expect the PCs this time to be higher than previous GPs, the real issue is that the trinity of Patrick/Javi/Yuzu isn't here. So assuming PCS inflates with the quad count, guys without quads are not good as a comparison base, which means Adam and Jason will not be used as comparison. This leaves Mikhail and Sergei, both of whom don't have enough of a reputation to really leverage against Nate or Shoma. If the judges score Nate and Shoma high, in the same competition a clean-ish Pchiddy/Javi/Yuzu will still need to be scored even higher-simply because it doesn't make sense otherwise. I know logic has left the building to a degree, but not fully as the comparative logic remains. 

 

I don't even trust comparative logic anymore, because otherwise Patrick should have easily won the PCS in Canada for his SP, and it didn't happen. And no judge should have ever thougth to score Nathan's pcs higher than Yuzuru's in COR FS, but that's happened too.

 

About comparing Yuzuru's COR SP and Winter today

That one shouldn't compare scores across competitions because they are from different panels is preposterous imo. Rules are there to be followed, and the scores still are going to matter as PB and SB, it doesn't matter if the competition is Olympics or WTT or who was in the judging panel. So why wouldn't be legit to compare pcs also? So I'll compare and get salty every single time. About this SP event, I'd really like to know what "outstanding" thing judges got to watch. I'd really like to understand.

imo even that today's Winter SP and COR Chopin Ballade got same PCS is hard to accept. In COR basically Yuzu only had a step out more than Shoma. Is that enough to erase the difference in components between them? I don't think so. Even if we don't want to talk about PE, CO and IN (I'm going to sound harsh now, but as soon as Shoma started his clenching air thing all over the program he lost me and my attention as a viewer. For me it's very distracting, and not in a good way. He could cut the drama and the program would be way better. From that point of view I enjoyed watching Nathan more, today, despite all his other flaws) SS and TR should warrant alone a difference in pcs way higher than a ridiculous 0.14 

And the scores tell me that Jason apparently has less/worse transitions than Nathan. Ok.

 

Funny thing: once jpn judges used to be reliable. But J2 must have missed ISU's seminars about components because it's absurd that she gave Nathan 9.50 in SS and, even worse, in TR. Just...NO. And wth, why did she gave lower TR to Shoma? 9.25 is still generous imo, but he does have better TR than Nathan. That he missed the SE-exit for the Axel because he fell doesn't change a thing.

So in this GP series we've already got two jpn judges who gave higher TR to Nathan instead of Shoma and Yuzu. Ok. Something must have gone lost in translation in the rulebook

On the other side, hooray for the Canadian judge on pcs. I wonder if they will reprimand her for giving such different scores. We'll see what happens in the free.

And now I'm going to drown my displeasure rewatching some jr ladies and lots of Yuzu. It's still Yuzuru's birthday in this part of the world and I don't want to feel angry

I'm not sure if already mentioned but Shoma's time violation deduction was due to SP length. They changed the music on his SP slightly so it matched the step sequence better (and it does! lovely) but in the process made it longer and the SP ran over time. Technically the SP time should be 2.40 +/- 10s leeway. Since his SP ended at 2.51, he was past the 10s overtime allowed by 1s. 

8 minutes ago, xeyra said:

I'm not sure if already mentioned but Shoma's time violation deduction was due to SP length. They changed the music on his SP slightly so it matched the step sequence better (and it does! lovely) but in the process made it longer and the SP ran over time. Technically the SP time should be 2.40 +/- 10s leeway. Since his SP ended at 2.51, he was past the 10s overtime allowed by 1s. 

why the heck haven't they paid more attention to this?

 

Also, wait, did they make the change right now? For the final? If yes, why the heck have they waited till now to make that change? All those ice shows, Lombardia trophy, JO, two gp...

also sorry, but I'm a bit at changing the music to fit the stsq better, after you did the music cut, and after you did the choreo for that music cut... while forgetting something so basic like the time limit. This is worse than getting time deduction for squeezing Pooh-san. There you can blame distraction, nerves or whatever. But this is a team mistake. One point thrown away. Now what? Are they going to cut a couple seconds of music or so somewhere else?

54 minutes ago, xeyra said:

I'm not sure if already mentioned but Shoma's time violation deduction was due to SP length. They changed the music on his SP slightly so it matched the step sequence better (and it does! lovely) but in the process made it longer and the SP ran over time. Technically the SP time should be 2.40 +/- 10s leeway. Since his SP ended at 2.51, he was past the 10s overtime allowed by 1s. 

So, are we going to get a stand choreo now, so that the music cut stops being a problem? Because the count starts with the movement of the skater... (If I remember correctly, Chopin is 2:52, but due to Yuzu standing still for the first 8ish seconds, it's still not deducted, similiar with Machida's Beethoven)

2 часа назад, fireovertheice сказал:

At the end of the six performances I realised once again how I miss Yuzu's skating: to me these were some more or less good skates, but I could not perceive any soul in them nor I could see any fire flying ou there on the ice ...

This! Thank you for putting it into words, it was exactly what I felt during all that senior men's competition. When you already saw Yuzu showing FS as it should be, others seem so pale. 

I can't see them putting a stand still start when Yuzuru is using Chopin - it would seem weird

37 minutes ago, Sombreuil said:

I can't see them putting a stand still start when Yuzuru is using Chopin - it would seem weird

Actually winter's beginning choreo has about three seconds where the only move he does is a step back and a bit of arm movement, so if they changed that to only arm movement (holy shit, what I'm suggesting to him ) it would technically count as not-skating?

I demand 50 PCS in the future for Yuzuru's clean Chopin.

 

That is all.

Just now, Yatagarasu said:

I demand 50 PCS in the future for Yuzuru's clean Chopin.

 

That is all.

I truly thinks he deserves even more...  

1 minute ago, Fay said:

I truly thinks he deserves even more...  

 

Oh he does. Comparatively, if there were no limit, considering what we just saw here, he does. Patrick should break 50 too then, slightly lower than what Yuzuru gets, considering the overall programs.

But since we're stuck, 50! No less than 50! Uno scandalo!  

6 hours ago, LadyLou said:

 

to be completely fair, iirc in the rulebook it isn't stated clearly "final goe must be -3" (I could be wrong tho), so maybe it's still supposed to add with positive features...  (tho then I'd loudly complain that judges should never give any -3 goe to any of Yuzu's fall    but he got all his -3s, which means whenever he's fallen he's always lost all the five points on his super gorgeous jumps preceded by all sorts of transitions, with awesome height and distance)

 

 

 I was really wondering what the rulebook said. 

53 minutes ago, cirelle said:

 

 I was really wondering what the rulebook said. 

I'm not 100% sure tho, sometimes the rulebook isn't that clear. I'd ask the opinion of more knowledgeble people, too

 

btw slight correction to what I've posted: Yuzuru did get a bit less than -3 total goe for his 4T3T fall, 3 judges gave him -2, so two -2 were counted for the average,  giving total factored goe -3.54 (max is -4 of course, plus one point of mandatory deduction).

If we talk about pure "principles" then I think that an otherwise amazing jump, huge and preceded by difficult transitions, might deserve a bit less deduction than, say, a tiny jump with long preparation, because obviously the first is much harder than the second, so a bit of "leniency" could reflect that... but only for really good jumps! Of course this whole thing is debatable (and some people think an element with a fall shouldn't give any point at all) and it isn't explained very well in the rulebook. Also, I don't know if there have bben changes in hte formulation of this specific rule.

It's different for all the required elements for SP, because there's no way out if they don't meet the criteria, they get -3....or so they should. Reality, of course, is different

(I think the rule about final goe -3 for elements not meeting requirements might be new, iirc the underlined parts in the rulebook are those that have been changed for this season)

2 hours ago, Aotoshiro said:

Actually winter's beginning choreo has about three seconds where the only move he does is a step back and a bit of arm movement, so if they changed that to only arm movement (holy shit, what I'm suggesting to him ) it would technically count as not-skating?

I have no idea - anyone know?? Ice dance, Torville and Dean, Bolero, back in the dark ages, moving around on the ice to use the atmospheric lead in without using up skating time - that was allowed, but it was a long long time ago in another discipline.......