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1 minute ago, WinForPooh said:

I was surprised because Vincent seemed a better performer to me there than Nathan.

I have been on that train, Zhou does seem to put more heart into his performance when it matters most (Olympics LP comes to mind). He also seems to have a knack at creating a better presence (which is my biggest issue with nathan... compare him to Yuzuru, Shoma's LPs in 2017 Worlds (and some other performances from them), and Boyang's SP there or at 4CCs this year, and they blow him away in terms of this one quality). But his refinement and basic skating overall is just not pleasing which is why I don't usually bother. He's still quite immature though, and comes across a little too phony, girl-playing-dressup (what's the boys' version of this? :laughing:) when he tries to perform.

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3 minutes ago, hoodie axel said:

I have been on that train, Zhou does seem to put more heart into his performance when it matters most (Olympics LP comes to mind). He also seems to have a knack at creating a better presence (which is my biggest issue with nathan... compare him to Yuzuru, Shoma's LPs in 2017 Worlds (and some other performances from them), and Boyang's SP there or at 4CCs this year, and they blow him away in terms of this one quality). But his refinement and basic skating overall is just not pleasing which is why I don't usually bother. He's still quite immature though, and comes across a little too phony, girl-playing-dressup (what's the boys' version of this? :laughing:) when he tries to perform.

 

I think - and I mean this positively, this is how I see a certain brand of performance, it's a perfectly legitimate way of performing and needs a lot of skill - 'deliberate dorky dancing' is Nathan's brand right now, and that works way better in SPs than the longs. His long programmes are supposed to be more serious interpretive pieces and he still doesn't actually have what it takes to pull that off.

 

Honestly, without his high value quads, he would not be getting anywhere near his current PCS. Or GOEs. 

 

If Vincent cleaned up his jumps and did some real intensive stroking drills maybe with ice dancers for a while, he'd be a far better overall package than Nathan. And I honestly dislike saying this because I really, really do not like him at all, Nathan is far more likable. I know it shouldn't matter but I have to practically fight my bias to see the good things about Vincent's skating when I watch him.

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6 minutes ago, WinForPooh said:

I think - and I mean this positively, this is how I see a certain brand of performance, it's a perfectly legitimate way of performing and needs a lot of skill - 'deliberate dorky dancing' is Nathan's brand right now, and that works way better in SPs than the longs. His long programmes are supposed to be more serious interpretive pieces and he still doesn't actually have what it takes to pull that off.

Yeah, I don't find him to be an artist. I don't think anyone's currently an artist, and I do think Chen has potential in that department, but he's just... not. I don't think he's got presence, his musicality is kind of generic, and I can just watch Hanyu/Uno/Jin to be more engaged with what they're selling.

8 minutes ago, WinForPooh said:

If Vincent cleaned up his jumps and did some real intensive stroking drills maybe with ice dancers for a while, he'd be a far better overall package than Nathan. And I honestly dislike saying this because I really, really do not like him at all, Nathan is far more likable. I know it shouldn't matter but I have to practically fight my bias to see the good things about Vincent's skating when I watch him. 

I can see that. My dislike for Vincent is based entirely on his comments on skating technique, and it makes my skin crawl that he got away with his URs after that PR campaign. I think either Uno or Jin should have been bronze.

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1 minute ago, hoodie axel said:

Yeah, I don't find him to be an artist. I don't think anyone's currently an artist, and I do think Chen has potential in that department, but he's just... not. I don't think he's got presence, his musicality is kind of generic, and I can just watch Hanyu/Uno/Jin to be more engaged with what they're selling.

I can see that. My dislike for Vincent is based entirely on his comments on skating technique, and it makes my skin crawl that he got away with his URs after that PR campaign. I think either Uno or Jin should have been bronze.

 

Jason please get a couple of stable quads for my mental health challenge 2k19! 

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2 minutes ago, jinxxoo said:

I saw someone argue that crossovers and arm movements are also transitions, but they aren't considered as transition by the isu are they? I'm confused.

well, technically everything skaters do between elements can be considered transition... just not high level of difficulty.

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4 hours ago, airi said:

well, technically everything skaters do between elements can be considered transition... just not high level of difficulty.

Oh that's why Jackie Wong said that "high quality crossovers" deserve high TR mark!:laughing: 

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I'm bringing this here, too:

 

ISU Challenger Events calendar, GP series 2019/2020 and 2020/2012 season calendar: 

https://www.isu.org/inside-isu/isu-communications/communications/20654-isu-communication-2234/file

 

ACI will be between 12-14 September, GPF in the 2020/2020 season will be in Beijing/China, we have some new Challenger events too. 

 

D2rOA_FW0AAtxvK.jpg

 

D2rOTWRWwAA4MC6.jpg

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Cup of China is within bullet train distance for me. Yay! For once I can watch FS without taking an entire week holiday leave. 

 

For those who are wondering, I'm evaluating the steps of  both Vince and Nate for the SP.  Not sure if I'm accurate, since my eyes are out of practice. And I'm still utterly confused by lack of clearly identifiable choctaws (i mean really guys what happened to make you hate it so?). But feel free to follow along, and help me check. 

 

Anyways, up first, Vinny! SP:

Spoiler

Start with Spread Eagle (SE), 3 turn, to RBI Edge.

Cluster 1: RBI-> RFI (rocker, pretty flat edges),  RFI--> RBI  counter--> RFI (counter, hopped a bit?). Jump to end cluster with RFO edge to 3 turn. 

Cluster 2: Hops on 2 ft backwards to land on LBI edge, switches to RFO twizzles, to RBI loop step, switch to LFO edge --> LBO edge (rocker with very short exit curve), crossover to LBO --> RFI (choctaw), to RFI to LBO (bracket turn, but not clean, overdid the turn, shape incorrect), crossover to a Besti Squat, crossover to LBI edge, back leap to RBO to 3 turn to 3rd cluster

Cluster 3: RBO to LFI (choctaw? Is this thou?), LFI_> LBO (bracket), --> LFO (counter, hopped again!)--> LFO twizzles --> crossovers to a barrel jump, to LFI loop, to last spin

 

Overall: 2 rockers, 2 loops, 2 twizzles, 3 counters, 2 brackets and 2 choctaw (???). At max 12 steps are counted. 

BUT, 1 bracket pattern wrong, 2nd choctaw is a question mark, and at least 1 hopped counter. Deduct 3 steps out, and the overturned bracket was on right foot. 

Means 9 steps at max are counted, and messed up right bracket, and potentially problematic RBO to LFI choctaw  means does not meet criteria for complex lv 4 where both feet must do the steps and turns. 

At max-lv 3, if you want to be strict lv 2 since there were loop issues, flat edges etc that could deduct another 2 steps and bring him down to 7.

 

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29 minutes ago, hoodie axel said:

:O 

 

I definitely did not believe Zhou should have got a level 4 anywhere here :laughing:

No Zhou should not, there are edge problems, potentially hopped turns, and 1 unclear bracket and 1 missing choctaw ( probably).  I want to redo Nate's because was too tired the first time I did it, but Nate's was truly no choctaw land. and missing potentially a left foot counter. So if I'm right, he also did not meet the complexity requirement where steps/turns must be done in both directions. 

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7 minutes ago, Xen said:

No Zhou should not, there are edge problems, potentially hopped turns, and 1 unclear bracket and 1 missing choctaw ( probably).  I want to redo Nate's because was too tired the first time I did it, but Nate's was truly no choctaw land. and missing potentially a left foot counter. So if I'm right, he also did not meet the complexity requirement where steps/turns must be done in both directions. 

I noticed Zhou's problems right on first watch :laughing: I am, err, "shocked" that the tp didn't :laughing: I also don't think he deserves level 4 on all his spins.

 

I think Chen did an ok job in the LP. SP I truly don't remember.

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