General Skating Chat

[Neenah]

1 hour ago, Rainna said:

 

 

So these are some of the examples from the ice dance handbook.  High quality stuff right there!

I first saw it this morning while on the train and I couldn't help but crack up. Definitely got me some weird stares, so thanks for that, ISU...

 

It is quite funny considering it is from an official ISU document, but you have to admit that it is very clear. Simplicity is really underrated these days

[monchan]

Fun fact I just noticed about Oly Bronze recent yrs:

-2010: DICE (1st medal for Jpn men's skating)

-2014: Denis (1st medal for Kazakhstan men's kating) (suddenly sooo sad:()

-2018: Javi (1st for Spain)

-2022: ???

Will the trend continue? Let's see   

(2 options pop up in my mind for now but who knows, some genius might come out of no where and surprise everybody )

[yuzuangel]

4 minutes ago, monchan said:

Fun fact I just noticed about Oly Bronze recent yrs:

-2010: DICE (1st medal for Jpn men's skating)

-2014: Denis (1st medal for Kazakhstan men's kating) (suddenly sooo sad:()

-2018: Javi (1st for Spain)

-2022: ???

Will the trend continue? Let's see   

(2 options pop up in my mind for now but who knows, some genius might come out of no where and surprise everybody )

Boyang?

[monchan]

8 hours ago, yuzuangel said:

Boyang?

Possible, thou I hope he can get better than bronze at his homeland. The thing is Beijing vs ISU, who would win  . Many talented juniors (from feds w no men's medal yet) are going senior this yr too, like Junhwan and Matteo. They might perform unexpectedly well in coming yrs who knows.

[katonice]

If any of us ever thought that judges will be taking it easy with the +4s and +5s at the start, well then 👀

 

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

 

On 2018/7/27 at 午前11時27分, monchanさんが言いました:

Do you think someone can break Yuzu's current WR before himself w new scoring rule? What's possible cases?

(example: Yuzu bombs his ACI, and someone benefits from raised GOE in their first CS, some 100+ (old scoring)->110+ (new scoring), is it possible?).

I'm not sure how much score will rise w new GOE and other rules applied.

 

10 時間前, LadyLouさんが言いました:

Yesterday I would have said this:

it will be hard for someone else to break the FS WR  (that was probably the most vulnerable till the rule change that cut 1 jump and BV) because the simulations (in General skating chat) show FS scores will probably be lower on average, plus being completely clean on FS is usually harder (and now mistakes will be more costly). So if there will be a new WR, it would likely be in SP. That said, other skaters would need much higher GOE than what they got till now, because they need more than their 'old' PB... not impossible of course (Nathan is usually better at SP too), but still quite hard. And I don't think judges will be gifting WRs left and right in post-olympic season and with rule change.

 

What I say today:

With the GOE judges are giving in minor local competitions (and to junior skaters too, like in Korean test skates for JGP), well,  it looks like judges are stile eager for inflation, so who the heck knows 

 

9 時間前, OonsieHuiさんが言いました:

 

Oh so you mean simply changing the rules didn't solve the problem of judges using GOE and PCS like candy? What a huge surprise!!! *sarcasm* I mean the problem was so clearly in the rules not in the judging right?!?!?! *s.a.r.c.a.s.m* 

 

 

9 時間前, LadyLouさんが言いました:

I wanted to believe they would use some self-restrain now...just a little bit

 

4 時間前, Anziさんが言いました:

Totally agree! before the rule changed, the judges already inflated the score in WC2018...I mean look at Mr. Chen's programs and his overmarked score...seriously?! I am not criticizing but compare his execution and program quality with Yuzu's, I don't think there is only 4-point gap between them.

 

I always find it a bit puzzling when people say the rule changes are skewed in favor of Hanyu (Orser being one of them). Sure, he may be the only one with the biggest possibility of hitting +5s at some point, if he sticks around long enough and doesn't go into decline, but people seem to forget that judges seem to judge on a relative scale. Others weren't getting +2s and +3s, deserved or no, so easily until Hanyu began consistently getting them. There's always this mindset to level the playing field. It wasn't so obvious before because while there were leaders, there wasn't anyone singularly so far above and beyond others they were unreachable without having to resort to blatantly stretching the points of the nearest competitors to sort of...give everyone else a fighting chance? So, for now at least, I fail to see how this increased range of GOE will bring about any huge difference except to widen the gap between the more technically adept and the ones who are less so. I mean so long as everyone on top delivers a cleanish performance, the scores are going to be given on the same ratio as before, with every +4s and +5s Hanyu manages to score, others would simply be getting +2s, +3s and +4s rather easily, when the same quality that would have only gotten them ,+1s, +2s (and sometimes even +3s, something we've seen happen before) when in reality they should have been 0.5s to mid-range +1s, at best. Even if they suppress Hanyu's scores to only allow him to hit the +4 range at most, there will be those who will be hitting the +3 one without having to really deserve it.

 

With the BVs being lowered and the reduction of one jumping pass, overall scores would either stay the same as before or only be slightly less but the relative differences between each top skater delivering a cleanish performance would stay largely the same, I think. So even if we have to wait and see, I don't foresee any significant changes for the better, just more of the same.

 

I mean, we may see some skaters on top being replaced by fresher blood if they deliver the quadz (quality notwithstanding) but I'm thinking the relative differences will likely follow the same pattern as the past couple of seasons. So rather than hoping that the judging would change with the scores and new rules, I'm more hoping that the skaters would be able to improve their skills enough to justify their scores a little bit more than before to give the audience and themselves better quality performances and technical feats. Because, scores aside, isn't improvement something everyone should be striving for in the first place?

[Neenah]

 

4 hours ago, Sammie said:

How do you get a 4 and a 0 for the same element? Are the judges looking at the same thing? What’s going on here ....

Anyone knows if one or more of those judges are international (or ISU) judges? I think those judges would have more training and should give us a better idea about how the judging in international competitions is going to be 

[monchan]

The scoring is soooo wild lmaooo. With wider range its just more messy, as expected. Adapting to new scoring means judge have to completely change their usual sense of +2, +3 jumps that they're used to for so many yr, in just 1-2 months. Putting bias aside, its alr extremely hard to have some common ground. Its like asking skaters to change their jumping technique in couple of months lol. 

 

We overestimated judge ppl. With new scoring, they dont even know what a jump worth from the start to give a 'biased' score=))) 

[golden]

i mean, fabio SAID with his own mouth, "dont worry, it is exactly like before" in that hilarious video they posted not so long ago, so idk what was to be expected really, but c'monnnn they could have at least /tried/

 

also, petty observation, but i already dont like 1Eu 😔 bring back 1Lo 

[WinForPooh]

The difference in how individual judges scored an element on GOE is the really wild bit. It's almost as if having actual clear rules for bullets instead of freewheeling guidelines might have been wise.

[EisElle]

4 hours ago, WinForPooh said:

The difference in how individual judges scored an element on GOE is the really wild bit. It's almost as if having actual clear rules for bullets instead of freewheeling guidelines might have been wise.

And maybe more examples too 

The ISU tech commission could do something nice&useful and rescore a competion like this, with goe all over the place, to train judges... maybe judges could learn more if Bianchetti&co showed judging mistakes, instead of showing a 'perfect' example...learn from your mistakes, they say 

The spread in GOE to same elements is ridiculous. It's likely there won't be more major rule change before 2022, so the system needs to hold till then...and it looks already broken

The commission wanted and designed this system, if they have a little bit of pride they should at least try to make it work.

[WinForPooh]

3 minutes ago, LadyLou said:

And maybe more examples too 

The ISU tech commission could do something nice&useful and rescore a competion like this, with goe all over the place, to train judges... maybe judges could learn more if Bianchetti&co showed judging mistakes, instead of showing a 'perfect' example...learn from your mistakes, they say 

The spread in GOE to same elements is ridiculous. It's likely there won't be more major rule change before 2022, so the system needs to hold till then...and it looks already broken

The commission wanted and designed this system, if they have a little bit of pride they should at least try to make it work.

Stop this radical nonsense. What next, a revolution? The only kind of that around here will be in jumps and they will be cheated because you cannot look at takeoff in slow motion, thank you very much! [/sarcasm]

[Yatagarasu]

14 hours ago, Neenah said:

 

Anyone knows if one or more of those judges are international (or ISU) judges? I think those judges would have more training and should give us a better idea about how the judging in international competitions is going to be 

 

From what little I had the chance to look at yesterday, one was an ISU judge, one an international judge. That was it.

 

But even with that, the scoring was way, way too wild. I mean someone had a laugh and counted, and overall GOE for ... someone .... was -4 for one judge, and a +20 for another. For the same skater. That cannot be excused with oh just the one ISU judge thing, or as I've seen attempts, judges are individuals. Not for that difference. It's a mess and will remain a mess. +4s are the new candy.

[Neenah]

1 hour ago, Yatagarasu said:

 

From what little I had the chance to look at yesterday, one was an ISU judge, one an international judge. That was it.

 

But even with that, the scoring was way, way too wild. I mean someone had a laugh and counted, and overall GOE for ... someone .... was -4 for one judge, and a +20 for another. For the same skater. That cannot be excused with oh just the one ISU judge thing, or as I've seen attempts, judges are individuals. Not for that difference. It's a mess and will remain a mess. +4s are the new candy.

Interesting and expected  

 

The judges need time to get used to the new system and they also need more training. I hope they sat together after the competition and discussed the scores to understand why they were so different from each other. 

[Murieleirum]

2 hours ago, Yatagarasu said:

I mean someone had a laugh and counted, and overall GOE for ... someone .... was -4 for one judge, and a +20 for another.

 

 

Wow. Well, as you said, this cannot be excused and it's not even hiding in plain sight. It's evident. How is the ISU going to save their reputation with this kind of scoring? It's impossible. 

(I foresee that we're gonna have the saltiest Ita esp. we've ever had this year, LOL).