General Skating Chat

[katonice]

Ari Zakarian has been posting some interesting skating moves from his brother (I think it is) on his insta.

Maybe these could fulfill some of the "creative" bullets that're in the ISU rulebook 

 

3A-1Lo-single backflip combo

 

3S (with varied position in the air lol)

 

Single backflip-3T<<

 

Check out his instagram account for more.

[xeyra]

I've added the Max GOE History sheet to this post and also have updated the Top 10 GOE, TES and PCS chart here.

[CupidsBow]

3 hours ago, katonice said:

Ari Zakarian has been posting some interesting skating moves from his brother (I think it is) on his insta.

Maybe these could fulfill some of the "creative" bullets that're in the ISU rulebook 

 

3A-1Lo-single backflip combo

 

3S (with varied position in the air lol)

 

Single backflip-3T<<

 

Check out his instagram account for more.

 

wtf

[axelnojutsu]

4 hours ago, katonice said:

Ari Zakarian has been posting some interesting skating moves from his brother (I think it is) on his insta.

Maybe these could fulfill some of the "creative" bullets that're in the ISU rulebook 

 

3A-1Lo-single backflip combo

 

3S (with varied position in the air lol)

 

Single backflip-3T<<

 

Check out his instagram account for more.

I quite like that varied air position  

[Murieleirum]

9 hours ago, xeyra said:

I've added the Max GOE History sheet to this post and also have updated the Top 10 GOE, TES and PCS chart here.

 

Thank you! I love your charts... I think every skating journalist should read this... especially US journalists...

[Lyyli]

Javi commented the quad race in ISU interview:

 

Q: What is your advice to the next generation of figure skaters?

 

J: The problem with athletes is that they always want to be the best and when you want to be the best you will try whatever to be the best. So I don’t think it even takes in the skaters, I think it takes more in the rules. Skating has changed so much in a little time that, at some point, there are going to have to be new rules until you can see that there aren’t going to be triples anymore, I don’t know. I leave that to the smart people to decide how is the best way to change that. We hear every day, you see a competition and everybody is falling around because everyone is trying to push to the limits. Maybe I don’t do as many quads as Shoma (Uno) or as Yuzu (Hanyu) or as Boyang (Jin) or Nathan (Chen) but I am trying to push my skating to the limit then my quads are going to be harder to do. That’s the big question: is it going to be the skaters that realize it or does the ISU need to make a rule that says only three quads in the free program? Now that’s going to be the real fight where the best skater, the best jumper, the best spinner, the best everything is going to be, even if all programs are clean, one of them is going to be the champion because he is the best at everything. That will be one thing. I don’t know – it’s hard to know. I say it as a skater, but there are so many things involved that we probably don’t even know, but we will see.
 

[xeyra]

This is an analysis of the Top 7 in WS men's short programs for the season, in Russian. I'm sure it'll be translated eventually but if anyone can check this out, could you also do a quick translation of the tables since they can't be google translated. From what translation gives me from the text itself, Yuzu still retains the highest complexity in the short program, according to this analysis. 

 

[katonice]

8 minutes ago, xeyra said:

This is an analysis of the Top 7 in WS's short programs for the season in Russian. I'm sure it'll be translated eventually but if anyone can check this out, could you also do a quick translation of the tables since they can't be google translated. From what translation gives me from the text itself, Yuzu still retains the highest complexity in the short program, according to this analysis. 

 

I was just reading this (or trying to at least). Looking forward to translations.

[MrPudding]

 

[xeyra]

13 minutes ago, MrPudding said:

 

 

I was coming to post that too. As I suspected, a fall will likely be given -5 GOE (the 3A there) but how that will translate into factored GOE we shall see. We may never know what results would be like at Tallinn Trophy with the new scale but I'm curious what the bullet points will be for each GOE interval. Right now we have at least 6 out of 8 bullets corresponding to +3. How many bullets would one need for +4 or +5? They'd need to restructure that too. 

[Xen]

5 hours ago, Lyyli said:

Javi commented the quad race in ISU interview:

 

Q: What is your advice to the next generation of figure skaters?

 

J: The problem with athletes is that they always want to be the best and when you want to be the best you will try whatever to be the best. So I don’t think it even takes in the skaters, I think it takes more in the rules. Skating has changed so much in a little time that, at some point, there are going to have to be new rules until you can see that there aren’t going to be triples anymore, I don’t know. I leave that to the smart people to decide how is the best way to change that. We hear every day, you see a competition and everybody is falling around because everyone is trying to push to the limits. Maybe I don’t do as many quads as Shoma (Uno) or as Yuzu (Hanyu) or as Boyang (Jin) or Nathan (Chen) but I am trying to push my skating to the limit then my quads are going to be harder to do. That’s the big question: is it going to be the skaters that realize it or does the ISU need to make a rule that says only three quads in the free program? Now that’s going to be the real fight where the best skater, the best jumper, the best spinner, the best everything is going to be, even if all programs are clean, one of them is going to be the champion because he is the best at everything. That will be one thing. I don’t know – it’s hard to know. I say it as a skater, but there are so many things involved that we probably don’t even know, but we will see.
 

I think the skaters will realize it before ISU, and whatever rules the ISU decides to create may end up being counterproductive. Limiting it to 3 quads in the free for example- well, what's to stop a guy from going 4A-3T, 4A, 4Lz? Nothing. And BV being what it is, that's what people will push for. But figure skating is a sport, and it should be recognized as such. There's also the factor that a lot of skaters may end up pushing for those quads anyways to prove that they are at the technical pinnacle too- there are probably very very few skaters who would consider themselves a complete skater, a true champion, if they won with a program of all triples against a program of all quads (provided it is all clean), especially if spins and footwork are relatively similar, and artistry is similar enough. 

 

The issue with quads, and almost any technique advancements, is that it's a pandora's box. Once it's open, you can't close it back. Skaters are athletes, they are competitive. The issue now is no longer what cannot be done, but how to do it "safely". The issue is how to improve training and help skaters and teams avoid long term injuries and damage. Then there's the entire GOE and scoring issue, PCS coefficients etc, that can all make it a bit more balanced so skaters won't feel the need to push just BV to get a more objective final score in order to stay competitive. 

[EisElle]

I'm listening to the last part of this evening podcast from Max and Angelo, they're ranking top men for the different pcs cathegories

(warning, not accurate report, I'm not good at multitasking, so maybe there are major mistakes in what I'm writing)

they're ranking

for SS 1)Patrick 2)Yuzuru, tho they have different strenght

TR 1)Yuzuru 2) Javier

PE 1) Javier (I don't remember the others, Shoma, I think?) for overall accuracy of all body movements? Don't remember, I was listening and typing sorry (reading the rulebook, maybe for "personality" and clarity of movements?)

IN 1) Fernandez? (tho still this season they haven't seen the best Fernandez). They say Patrick and Yuzu are a bit lower, IN isn't Yuzu's forte** (burn the ITA ESP at the stake kidding  but still I beg to differ) (and I'm not sure if I haven't messed PE and IN...the more I try to remember the less sure I amsorry, guys, you'll have to wait for the translation of the words of someone else listening to the podcastand tomorrow maybe I'll re-listen and get this right)

CO maybe Patrick because he's more mature and can link better everything with some meaning

 

I don't know why, but while I can see how great Javi is at making the audience cheer and clap and get excited about his programs, I fail to be entranced by him (and I think I've rewatched at least one program from all the top six men multiple times... but none from Javi's. I'm sorry Javi ). At this point I think it's really just my taste. While Yuzuru can touch me deeply with so many of his programs (so deeply he forcefully dragged me into full time FS-blackhole). So while I can see why objectively Javier is great at PE and IN (analysing the rulebook), I fail to see how objectively IN isn't Yuzu's forte, at least right now. For me in Chopin ballad it is his forte (already was back in 2015-2016, but now it really stands out), and in Seimei, too, in LGC, in Notte Stellata, in Requiem, and Hope and Legacy (if I just think about the last years)

iirc young Yuzu was said not to be very good at projection (part of PE. While, for example, projection has always been pointed out as one of Shoma's strenghts), and I've never been blessed enough to watch him live, but imo those times are long gone (as his stamina and experience grew).

He drags* me in his skating as no one else (to the point I've spent whole afternoons looping the same program, over and over again). I see (half quoting from rulebook) expression of the music's feeling, timing of movements and steps, use of finesse to reflect the nuances. So, yeah, I really beg to differ

 

 

And by the time I re-read and finished this post, the podcast has ended I am soooo slow)

 

ETA

*I mean that he just catches my attention and holds it till the end, like a gravitational pull. I just can't tear my eyes away. And he compels me to watch him.

 

** they haven't used that word, I think they've said something like "not the best point"?

 

ETA 2 quoting from the gen thread, because if this isn't use of finesse to reflect the details and nuances of the music I don't know what it is (I kinda had a goofy smile seeing this, because well, the timing with my post is so perfect)

58 minutes ago, kaeryth said:

The attention to detail...

 

 

*now off to sleep*

 

 

[Joey]

1 hour ago, LadyLou said:

IN isn't Yuzu's forte

 

  

    

     

  

    

 

    

 

Aka the smily reaction trajectory of someone who thinks IN is his biggest strength. Yes, there, I said it. Over his god level transitions, over his absolute top-notch SS. Over his complex, often unique and detailed choreo. And over his commanding presence and intensity giving his performances the "you will watch this!" extra. The. Best. Part.

 

I am sorry Max & Angelo, I love you dearly, but you are most certainly off my list of trusted advisers for the best Interpretation in Figure Skating Christmas Party list.

Though truth be told, if we look back at Max screaming "Interpretation - 10!" after WC17's Hope & Legacy... I will just assume they wanted to try and name some others, because maybe "Yuzuru Hanyu invented skating and deserves 11 in every category" didn't sound quite as professional as bringing some other names in. I have faith

[kaeryth]

13 minutes ago, Joey said:

 

  

    

     

  

    

 

    

 

Aka the smily reaction trajectory of someone who thinks IN is his biggest strength. Yes, there, I said it. Over his god level transitions, over his absolute top-notch SS. Over his complex, often unique and detailed choreo. And over his commanding presence and intensity giving his performances the "you will watch this!" extra. The. Best. Part.

 

I am sorry Max & Angelo, I love you dearly, but you are most certainly off my list of trusted advisers for the best Interpretation in Figure Skating Christmas Party list.

Though truth be told, if we look back at Max screaming "Interpretation - 10!" after WC17's Hope & Legacy... I will just assume they wanted to try and name some others, because maybe "Yuzuru Hanyu invented skating and deserves 11 in every category" didn't sound quite as professional as bringing some other names in. I have faith

 

Your reaction coincides perfectly with your avatar

 

Re: Yuzu and IN. I do think Max & Angelo came up with this statement in relation to casual viewers or if we judge in the moment of the performance (if not then ). Honestly, there are a LOT of subtle movements and choreography in Yuzu's programs that you can get only after watching it countless times. It's not an in your face choreography that's very easy to get and that requires little understanding of the background of the program. I think that's why Javi gets a lot of praise for IN - he's good at portraying characters (although sometimes they're too alike) and it's easy for the judges to 'get' the program as opposed to a more lyrical program like H&L (and this is why we have warhorses). This is probably one of the reasons Seimei was chosen as well (besides the fact that it's a magnum opus). As Uncle Kurt once said about Seimei, he didn't need to know the background of the story or the character to appreciate the program.

[yuzuangel]

On 11/28/2017 at 1:49 AM, katonice said:

Ari Zakarian has been posting some interesting skating moves from his brother (I think it is) on his insta.

Maybe these could fulfill some of the "creative" bullets that're in the ISU rulebook 

 

3A-1Lo-single backflip combo

 

3S (with varied position in the air lol)

 

Single backflip-3T<<

 

Check out his instagram account for more.

wow..