General Skating Chat

[Murieleirum]

11 minutes ago, Yatagarasu said:

(I think Yuzuru will try for the 4A because he wants the jump, for the prestige of it and to say that he can but no doubt, if they lower the BV of that too I question when anyone else will even attempt it again because why would they?)

 

Well, I wouldn't mind that at all, in the end: Yuzuru Hanyu, the only figure skater in history to have attempted and successfully landed 4A in competition. Everyone else chickened out" 

[Yatagarasu]

7 minutes ago, Murieleirum said:

Now, maybe he won't be able to pull off a clean balanced 5 quad program in September, but I strongly believe he is capable of it, because of those things I just mentioned. I believe he is the only one who's capable of it, right now. 

Six or seven quads though? I'm not sure even he could do it and I'm not sure he would want to. 

 

 

Oh yes, I don't expect a full version come ... what is it, Saturday? but I think we'll already have a good idea of where it's going. I also think he can do it, plus the music is perfection of a choice for it.

Honestly? If Yuzuru were to go for 6, then I would expect him to actually consider the 4-4. I think otherwise he would not because I am sure he's aware of the issues. Of course, if he ends up adding that 4A, the set up for that even for him is probably not going to be small, so there's that to consider. But let's get through this season first!

 

4 minutes ago, Murieleirum said:

 

Well, I wouldn't mind that at all, in the end: Yuzuru Hanyu, the only figure skater in history to have attempted and successfully landed 4A in competition. Everyone else chickened out" 

 

 

 

 

 

[SSS]

On 9/17/2017 at 12:33 PM, Eclair said:

I'd like to add that for me, Yuna's turandot is the most beautiful and perfect one 😍It's a true masterpiece

The one she did right before r****?

That was a piece of art. I could not believe I could watch a non Yuzu program many times..

[Valkyria]

30 minutes ago, Murieleirum said:

 

Well, I wouldn't mind that at all, in the end: Yuzuru Hanyu, the only figure skater in history to have attempted and successfully landed 4A in competition. Everyone else chickened out" 

 

That should go on any monument they'd build for him. It encapsulates Yuzu so perfectly in so few words 

[Yolo3a]

2 hours ago, Murieleirum said:

 

Well, I wouldn't mind that at all, in the end: Yuzuru Hanyu, the only figure skater in history to have attempted and successfully landed 4A in competition. Everyone else chickened out" 

Well this is something for that Wikipedia page

[SSS]

The 6 quad prediction + blind judge and evil feds sounds really scary...

[singcarcom]

6 hours ago, Murieleirum said:

 

It's very interesting, because I think the number of quads you can pull off and still have a complete program PCS wise, depends on how you do those quads. Currently, the way the youngsters have been pulling off these many quads, they've been stealing time to the rest of the performance because of: the speed decreasing, the focus changing from 'skate' to 'jump', and the preparation for the jump itself. So, theoretically, the best way to fit 'many' quads in a performance is NOT to lose speed, NOT to lose focus of the performance as a whole, and take as little time to prepare the jump as you can. Sounds familiar?  It's exactly what Yuzuru, and ONLY Yuzuru, does. And that's how he was able to prove that a 4 quad program can be balanced. Now, maybe he won't be able to pull off a clean balanced 5 quad program in September, but I strongly believe he is capable of it, because of those things I just mentioned. I believe he is the only one who's capable of it, right now. 

Six or seven quads though? I'm not sure even he could do it and I'm not sure he would want to. 

 

 

 

Boyang takes things slow but steady, with his eyes set on Beijing 2022. It's like Yuzu during Sochi 2014; Pyeongchang OGM has always been part of the plan, he just happened to get the Sochi one as well. This is also why I see the most potential in him amongst these 3 and I'm looking forward to see how he'll grow as a skater.

 

Shoma keeps increasing his tech content even when his jumps and edges aren't stable enough yet. I feel that Shoma is rushing to defeat Yuzu in competition, and since he's not sure when Yuzu will r*****, he's going all out. Others want to win Yuzu because they want to reach the top spot and Yuzu happens to be an obstacle to that goal, but Shoma gives me the impression that he wants to win Yuzu for the sake of winning Yuzu. Shoma's like the younger brother who looks up to his elder brother and at the same time, and wants to reach that level and go beyond. Interestingly, Shoma (and Boyang) are the only guys amongst the top 6 who has not won Yuzu in competition (like SC, 4CC, Worlds).

 

Nathan tries to do as many quads as he can handle. With his skills, it is certainly possible for him to improve his tech and work on artistry at the same time. But that's a slower process than simply adding quads. It's like he's aiming to be a fireworks that light up during Olympics, and then be done and move on to the next stage of his life. It's a pity, but the way he skates now seem like a bad idea for longevity.

 

So I think Boyang might eventually reach the stage where he can do many quads with a complete program. Shoma and Nathan are capable of doing it if they train in that direction, but certainly doesn't seem likely at this point. Yuzu is different because he's such a perfectionist that he wouldn't allow himself to compromise his artistry. And the rate at which Yuzu add quads to his fs is a lot slower than say Nathan or Shoma, so he has slowly conditioned himself to do many quads while still putting out complete and beautiful programmes. 

 

I'm not sure if Yuzu will ever want to do a 6 or 7 quad fs, but if he ever does it, I'm sure the artistry is still there. He wants to be known as the skater who's good at everything, not just jumping.

[katonice]

10 hours ago, xeyra said:

 

Nathan is definitely going for 6 quads, possibly 7 with the 4Lo if his stamina holds. But Shoma's decisions I've no idea at this point. In the beginning he talked about how adding two new quads would be reckless but now he speaks of the 4S as a quad he may trust, so the 4Lz may yet happen too. And unless he replaces one of his tried and true 4Ts for one of the new quads, to have both 4S and 4Lz in a program means 6 quads. I think Shoma may try the 4Lz at Japan Open because it's a competition that doesn't count for anything and he'll decide based on what the tech panel calls there. 

How do the judges' panel score in Japan Open though? I honestly have not paid attention, but I have the impression they would be less inclined to be strict since it's mainly a fluff competition. 

[katonice]

On 9/19/2017 at 8:01 AM, katonice said:

Jackie's review of the first few Challenger competitions. 

http://www.rockerskating.com/news/2017/9/18/opining-on-us-classic-and-lombardia-part-1-early-signs-of-contenders

 

What I found amusing were his comments on the scoring near the end of the article. He's being PC about everything of course. 

Second part of Jackie's analysis

 

[Murieleirum]

 

Now that I think about it, we all kind of try to find Yuzu characteristics in the youngsters - but somehow we always come up empty handed because simply Yuzuru's idea of skating was different since he was very young. Even at 17, commentators said stuff like 'he jumps out of nowhere' and 'he interprets like a mature skater' and although you can find one thing or two in Boyang's big jumps or Shoma's focus while performing, you just don't have all those things together, because Yuzuru is really a prodigy among veeery talented people, and it's not gonna be easy to find someone like him for the next 50 years. Maybe never. I feel like I always say the same things, but I've gotta remind myself of what a genius Yuzuru is, because sometimes commentators and ISU and everyone just doesn't want to aknowledge it - and the way they try to forget it is by trying to raise up other skaters to his level... surely, if they were as good as judges and some commentators think, they would not need the help of politicking, overscoring, tech calls forgotten, and more. If they were as good, they would be on top despite unfavourable judging, just as Yuzuru did. 

If everyone is a genius, after all, no one's gonna be special anymore, and no one will have to be jealous of anyone. 

[wombat-poodle]

20 hours ago, Murieleirum said:

 

Now that I think about it, we all kind of try to find Yuzu characteristics in the youngsters - but somehow we always come up empty handed because simply Yuzuru's idea of skating was different since he was very young. Even at 17, commentators said stuff like 'he jumps out of nowhere' and 'he interprets like a mature skater' and although you can find one thing or two in Boyang's big jumps or Shoma's focus while performing, you just don't have all those things together, because Yuzuru is really a prodigy among veeery talented people, and it's not gonna be easy to find someone like him for the next 50 years. Maybe never. I feel like I always say the same things, but I've gotta remind myself of what a genius Yuzuru is, because sometimes commentators and ISU and everyone just doesn't want to aknowledge it - and the way they try to forget it is by trying to raise up other skaters to his level... surely, if they were as good as judges and some commentators think, they would not need the help of politicking, overscoring, tech calls forgotten, and more. If they were as good, they would be on top despite unfavourable judging, just as Yuzuru did. 

If everyone is a genius, after all, no one's gonna be special anymore, and no one will have to be jealous of anyone. 

 

Hmm, I think other skaters always have one special area which they use to get the judge's attention and favour. For example, Boyang and Nathan with their jumping prowess, Shoma with his intense performances and Patrick with superior skating skills. ISU judges are gullible that way - as long as their other areas are not "obviously problematic", they will be impressed enough to give out points, overlook certain areas, etc. Yuzuru doesn't have a standout area, but is good at everything. However that is not as attention-grabbing as being a specialist. So he goes "unacknowledged". What makes him special is that he commits to this style of skating even though its not the most rewarding (and of course has sheer talent to follow through). That's a trait that's hard to find. 

[yuzuangel]

1 hour ago, wombat-poodle said:

Yuzuru doesn't have a standout area, but is good at everything.

Actually, I think Yuzu does have standout area(s), in fact many of them. Maybe he has so many standout areas, it seems like he doesn't have any?

1. Jumping prowess: his quads (and 3A!) are more effortless than anyone else's jumps in the world. Boyang and Nathan have the 4Lz and/or 4F, probably their only advantage over Yuzu, but I dont think their jumps are more beautiful than Yuzu's. Yuzu's jumps are fast, effortless throughout, with extremely good air position, and transitions into and out of them. If the only thing that goes into jumping prowess is having a 4Lz or a 4F, then...well...I disagree.

2. Intense performances: I don't think Seimei is less intense than Loco. And it's quite a ways more intense than Winter or Turandot ATM.

3. Superior skating skills: I know Patrick has good skating skills, but (if you haven't already guessed), IMO Yuzu has almost as good skating skills and arguably as good -- their skating styles aren't exactly the same, so it's hard to compare, but Chopin showcases his deep edges, flow, and speed, and you just have to see how well he times every element and every turn with the music (which mind you changes speed like 50x) to realize what great control and skating skills he has. To me, it's way more attention grabbing than anything Patrick has done (he tends to skate to kind of similar, one-note music), but hey that's why I'm a Yuzu fan and not a Patrick fan.

 

...If Yuzu's level of skating skills/jumping prowess/intensity is not enough to grab a judge's attention, they probably didn't want to pay attention anyway.

 

ETA: I'd also like to add: spins. Yuzu's spins are above and beyond everyone else's in the top 6. 

[xeyra]

54 minutes ago, yuzuangel said:

3. Superior skating skills: I know Patrick has good skating skills, but (if you haven't already guessed), IMO Yuzu has almost as good skating skills and arguably as good -- their skating styles aren't exactly the same, so it's hard to compare, but Chopin showcases his deep edges, flow, and speed, and you just have to see how well he times every element and every turn with the music (which mind you changes speed like 50x) to realize what great control and skating skills he has. To me, it's way more attention grabbing than anything Patrick has done (he tends to skate to kind of similar, one-note music), but hey that's why I'm a Yuzu fan and not a Patrick fan.

 

 

Speaking of skating skills, this is an interesting post about the differences between Yuzu and Patrick.

[SparkleSalad]

1 hour ago, yuzuangel said:

Actually, I think Yuzu does have standout area(s), in fact many of them. Maybe he has so many standout areas, it seems like he doesn't have any?

1. Jumping prowess: his quads (and 3A!) are more effortless than anyone else's jumps in the world. Boyang and Nathan have the 4Lz and/or 4F, probably their only advantage over Yuzu, but I dont think their jumps are more beautiful than Yuzu's. Yuzu's jumps are fast, effortless throughout, with extremely good air position, and transitions into and out of them. If the only thing that goes into jumping prowess is having a 4Lz or a 4F, then...well...I disagree.

2. Intense performances: I don't think Seimei is less intense than Loco. And it's quite a ways more intense than Winter or Turandot ATM.

3. Superior skating skills: I know Patrick has good skating skills, but (if you haven't already guessed), IMO Yuzu has almost as good skating skills and arguably as good -- their skating styles aren't exactly the same, so it's hard to compare, but Chopin showcases his deep edges, flow, and speed, and you just have to see how well he times every element and every turn with the music (which mind you changes speed like 50x) to realize what great control and skating skills he has. To me, it's way more attention grabbing than anything Patrick has done (he tends to skate to kind of similar, one-note music), but hey that's why I'm a Yuzu fan and not a Patrick fan.

 

...If Yuzu's level of skating skills/jumping prowess/intensity is not enough to grab a judge's attention, they probably didn't want to pay attention anyway.

 

ETA: I'd also like to add: spins. Yuzu's spins are above and beyond everyone else's in the top 6. 

 

I agree completely about his jumps. The lightness and effortlessness stand out and above even to an untrained eye. Even the transitions are noticible to non-FS fans, the jumps coming "out of nowhere."

 

Patrick's skating skills, though - he makes me gasp abput 10 times a program. I have to hand the crown to him. That being said, it's difficult to compare the two as Patrick's style or ideal of skating doesn't work for the kind of music Yuzu skates to and Patrick makes sure to pick music that shows off his flow (or bore the hell out of me when he forces it with other musical styles.) I think physique plays a part, too. Yuzu is so slender and that contributes to his light jumps and makes him seem as if he's floating rather than skating across the ice. Patrick's legs, if you've seen them, explain a lot about his skating skills, too, I think. I don't think Yuzu can never have the same visual impact Patrick does in that respect.

 

 

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

3 時間前, yuzuangelさんが言いました:

...If Yuzu's level of skating skills/jumping prowess/intensity is not enough to grab a judge's attention, they probably didn't want to pay attention anyway.

 

ETA: I'd also like to add: spins. Yuzu's spins are above and beyond everyone else's in the top 6. 

 

I wrote a longish essay about this in hopes of posting it somewhere when there's an opportunity and it finally came knocking. But I think I've hit my word quota for the day.

 

1 時間前, SparkleSaladさんが言いました:

 

I agree completely about his jumps. The lightness and effortlessness stand out and above even to an untrained eye. Even the transitions are noticible to non-FS fans, the jumps coming "out of nowhere."

 

Oh, oh, oh! I've got another long essay written about this as well! But maybe some other time. I've babbled enough for the day. ^^;

 

Will placehold these to come back to another time! Consider yourselves warned. >:o)