hace 3 minutos , kamotejojo said:

Don't worry about it. Yuzu will agree with his training mate anyway. And it will be 10x more intense.If you're still uncomfortable about it, just think of it as another 'LOL Javi' comment.  

I have no doubt about that  

2 minutes ago, kamotejojo said:

Don't worry about it. Yuzu will agree with his training mate anyway. And it will be 10x more intense.If you're still uncomfortable about it, just think of it as another 'LOL Javi' comment.  

Oh, if Javi actually called Yuzu GOAT, he'd probably get slapped by Yuzu....

But the interview is interesting, and it would be nice to see a Plush+Javi skating clinic. Or better yet, a week long clinic of BOrser+Plush+Javi+Yuzu. That would really raise the profile of figure skating in western europe. 

10 hours ago, Murieleirum said:

 

It's true that Yuzuru could still learn something from Plushenko - not only Yuzuru, but every male figure skating. Plushenko had an incredible jump consistency! Maybe that is a bit overrated by some, but it's true that these things are very subjective in the end...

 

Consistent, yes, but I find his jumps to be ugly, strained, off axis. He comes to almost a complete stop after many of them. It's been said of Yuzuru that he gains speed coming out of his jumps! I'd rather a skater maintain quality and beauty than sacrifice it for consistency, though I'm not someone hellbent on winning medals.

 

(I feel the same about Evgenia's skating as I do about Plushenko and she too receives the same praise for consistency more than anything related to artistry.)

 

ETA tonremove confusion. Please leave me in my hole now. 

2 minutes ago, SparkleSalad said:

 

It's bizarre to me that people still consider Plushenko to be GOAT (Oh, god, the ham! The arms! The pantomime!) and it's incredible to see how much Yuzuru admires him. He's already far surpassed him.

 

It's really not bizarre at all.

 

Plushenko has 4 Olympic medals - one gold and two silvers, in individual competition plus one team gold.

He is a 3-time World champion, with additional gold and silver and a 7-time European champion, with additional 3 silvers.

He is a 4-time GPF winner, with additional two silvers and one bronze.

He also won the Goodwill games, with one other bronze and is the former World Junior Champion.

 

Under CoP he had 13 world records, which is quite something considering how long he skated under 6.0.

 

He was the first person to land a 4T-3T-2Lo in competition as well as later, a 4T-3T-3Lo and a 3A-Lo-3F.  I am not even counting the various EX combos he has done (3A-3T-3Lo, for example) or what existed in practice (3A-4T). How many combos of this type do we see today?

 

Yes, he has "only" landed a 4T and a 4S in competition, but he did have both the 4Lo and the 4Lz in practice. More importantly, Plushenko and Mishin together helped advance this sport in immeasurable ways when it comes to the technical and their pioneering ways are one of the reasons of Plushenko's bad physical condition. 

 

Yuzuru has chosen very, very well when it comes to his idol and Javier has chosen very well when it comes to naming someone the GOAT.

13 minutes ago, Yatagarasu said:

 

It's really not bizarre at all.

 

Plushenko has 4 Olympic medals - one gold and two silvers, in individual competition plus one team gold.

He is a 3-time World champion, with additional gold and silver and a 7-time European champion, with additional 3 silvers.

He is a 4-time GPF winner, with additional two silvers and one bronze.

He also won the Goodwill games, with one other bronze and is the former World Junior Champion.

 

Under CoP he had 13 world records, which is quite something considering how long he skated under 6.0.

 

He was the first person to land a 4T-3T-2Lo in competition as well as later, a 4T-3T-3Lo and a 3A-Lo-3F.  I am not even counting the various EX combos he has done (3A-3T-3Lo, for example) or what existed in practice (3A-4T). How many combos of this type do we see today?

 

Yes, he has "only" landed a 4T and a 4S in competition, but he did have both the 4Lo and the 4Lz in practice. More importantly, Plushenko and Mishin together helped advance this sport in immeasurable ways when it comes to the technical and their pioneering ways are one of the reasons of Plushenko's bad physical condition. 

 

Yuzuru has chosen very, very well when it comes to his idol and Javier has chosen very well when it comes to naming someone the GOAT.

 

I can understand when it comes to scoring but I haven't seen a performance by Plushenko that I didn't find either ridiculous or dull to watch. I'm not a fan for the scores, though they're impressive and exciting to follow, and don't think they necessarily reflect the quality of a skater. If Yuzuru had less quads under his belt I'd still consider him greatest for everything else. 

 

Number of medals, too, has a lot to do with how long you stick around and the luck of the level of talent in your generation. I don't think the current generation can risk trying to catch up with that tally by sticking around for 4 Olympic cycles when the physical toll is much higher now.

16 minutes ago, SparkleSalad said:

 

I can understand when it comes to scoring but I haven't seen a performance by Plushenko that I didn't find either ridiculous or dull to watch. I'm not a fan for the scores, though they're impressive and exciting to follow, and don't think they necessarily reflect the quality of a skater. If Yuzuru had less quads under his belt I'd still consider him greatest for everything else. 

 

I think it's perfectly fine not to like Plushenko, Yuzuru, Javier or anyone and not enjoy their performances. It's personal preferences and that's normal. 

 

A skater's achievements are their achievements though, and there is no doubt what Plushenko has achieved. Javier saying that Plushenko is the GOAT of figure skating, is very much backed up by Plushenko's achievements and great contribution to sport. 
You're of course more than welcome to think Yuzuru Hanyu is the GOAT of figure skating, but Javier is also entitled to his opinion that is definitely not bizarre. It's why that same Yuzuru Hanyu idolizes Plushenko so much. There's far more than consistency in play there, Plushenko pushed this sport for a long time which is far more difficult than most realize, as I am sure Yuzuru can attest. 

 

 

Anyway, personally GOAT talk always makes me shrug. Different eras, different equipment, different levels of sport. There will always be a next one, sooner or later and that's good, as it keeps us moving. 

I confess I found belwildering how some of you found Javi's caption in any way controversial... In a few generations maybe Yuzu will have earned the mention by younger skaters as their GOAT but this generation of skaters grew up with Plushenko and Yagudin. Including Yuzu.

4 minutes ago, xeyra said:

I confess I found belwildering how some of you found Javi's caption in any way controversial... In a few generations maybe Yuzu will have earned the mention by younger skaters as their GOAT but this generation of skaters grew up with Plushenko and Yagudin. Including Yuzu.

 

I don't find Javi or any other skaters of this generation saying it odd. Forest, trees, etc. To say your competitor is GOAT would be admitting defeat, though Shoma sounds pretty close to it in interviews. 

 

(Personally, I prefer Yagudin. :P)

5 minutes ago, xeyra said:

I confess I found belwildering how some of you found Javi's caption in any way controversial... In a few generations maybe Yuzu will have earned the mention by younger skaters as their GOAT but this generation of skaters grew up with Plushenko and Yagudin. Including Yuzu.

 

And it was fabulous! I was around at the time too and I liked both of those guys, so you can imagine how fun that was. We were a rare breed then, most people went on one side or another but goodness, it was a great time. Just like this era brought it's own excitement and I'm sure the next one will too, in the form of some new names. 

 

(and I am still salty about Lysacek, ok? I am never letting that one go.)

39 minutes ago, SparkleSalad said:

 

I can understand when it comes to scoring but I haven't seen a performance by Plushenko that I didn't find either ridiculous or dull to watch. I'm not a fan for the scores, though they're impressive and exciting to follow, and don't think they necessarily reflect the quality of a skater. If Yuzuru had less quads under his belt I'd still consider him greatest for everything else. 

 

Number of medals, too, has a lot to do with how long you stick around and the luck of the level of talent in your generation. I don't think the current generation can risk trying to catch up with that tally by sticking around for 4 Olympic cycles when the physical toll is much higher now.

But then again, not many skaters get medal just because they stay around for 2-3 quads. Yes, luck is a factor but not the main reason. And Plushenko competed with one of the best competitors in history, Yagudin. IMO none of the men rivalries today are as interesting as Plushy-Yag back then. I'm not really a fan of Plushy's skating, but he has alot of things to admire, his consistency, his competitive fire and his influence to this sport.

I found its  when some people think there's problem with Javi's words. I think there's a lot people actually agree with him, maybe including Yuzuru .  Everyone has their own ideal of perfect skating so there's no need to argue who's goat and who's not.

Though I am not really a fan of Plusenko either, I find him admirable for applauding Yuzu's achievement. The only time they compete iirc is the at Sochi team event, and I think it's the right decision for Plush to withdraw due to physical condition, I think he knows he cannot win another gold.  Exactly because he had pushed the sport, he can appreciate Yuzu's skating more than other older skater or coaches. 

Plushenko isn't the best male skater in my book. If I take out the consistency and judge quality in both jumps and skating, he definitely wasn't the best in all categories. Plushenko, however, along with Yagudin, were the best competitors of their era. The matter is, they stayed on the feet and won the medals when it counted. That's why they're legends. That's why Yuzuru has to learn from them. With all the qualities Yuzuru has, isn't it great that he can learn from Plushenko and Yagudin how to dominate more? It's time he has to learn from their mentality. 

It's just the same as I don't see Michelle Kwan as the best female skater in the history but she technically is a legend who has influenced many generations of skaters.

I think there's a difference between finding a statement objectively wrong and not agreeing with it! A sport always moves forward, and GOAT change from generation to generation. Plushenko was the GOAT of the past generation of skaters, imo, and now there is one (if not more than one) skater who can do way better, technically and interpretation wise (although 'greatest' and 'better' are such generic terms that, really, everything is extra-subjective). So, yes, I don't agree with Javi saying that Plushenko is the GOAT. But I understand why he says it and where he comes from. 

It's true that I'm young and I didn't follow FS at the time of Plushenko and Yagudin. But I've seen performances of both and happen to find Yuzuru's depth of interpretation way better. Still, every skater has unique qualities, and Yuzuru and Javi and every other current skater is right to look up to past skaters to improve themselves. 

35 minutes ago, Katt said:

But then again, not many skaters get medal just because they stay around for 2-3 quads. Yes, luck is a factor but not the main reason. And Plushenko competed with one of the best competitor in history, Yagudin. IMO none of the men rivalries today are as interesting as Plushy-Yag back then. I'm not really a fan of Plushy's skating, but he has alot of things to admire, his consistency, his competitive fire and his influence to this sport.

I found its  when some people think there's problem with Javi's words. I think there's a lot people actually agree with him, maybe including Yuzuru .  Everyone has their own ideal of perfect skating so there's no need to argue who's goat and who's not.

 

I don't mean to belittle Plushenko achievements, I just find it fascinating that he's not called on being a rediculous and inelegant ham more often and that people's standards don't take into account more than just results in sport. That's not to say that people don't enjoy his skating regardless but I also have the feeling his status is more strongly held  in regard by men. I'd assume for female fans that perhaps beauty and artistry factor into it more, or perhaps that's just me, and I've always found machismo to be ugly. In my country, at least, male beauty and softness is so rare so maybe I appreciate it more when I do see it. I'm also coming into this sport from a childhood filled with dance and musical education so I'm probably tipped far more in one direction than the other. I think this is the first time my favourite in any sport has been the front runner but that's what I think makes Yuzuru so incredible and impossibly rare in any field. That the most artistic and soulful has the technique and mentality to be on top.

 

I'm very sorry to Plushenko fans for my blasphemy. 

12 minutes ago, fluffypooh said:

Though I am not really a fan of Plusenko either, I find him admirable for applauding Yuzu's achievement. The only time they compete iirc is the at Sochi team event, and I think it's the right decision for Plush to withdraw due to physical condition, I think he knows he cannot win another gold.  Exactly because he had pushed the sport, he can appreciate Yuzu's skating more than other older skater or coaches. 

 

He is unbelievably sweet to the young Japanese skaters. I think he's a wee bit of a narcissist but he really won me over when Miyu Honda visited him. And of course all the heartfelt messages of congratulations he puts up when Yuzuru wins. (Watching him teach his tiny ballet students is adorable, too.)