10 minutes ago, Fresca said:

 

You are not the only one...it's so...bland- both the choreography and his expression of it. He didn't seem invested in it all. Then again, Shoma is the type of skater who takes a long time to learn choreography. He has difficulty learning the steps for the opening/closing parts of competition galas. You'll notice he's usually behind the beat. He was probably concentrating on getting all the steps right. That takes care of the expression bit. The choreography bit...yeah...not sure who did the choreography for this one but it looks like a rush job.

99.9% it's Mihoko Higuchi

45 minutes ago, ShiroKJ said:

 

(Broadcast) FaOI 2017 Makuhari - Part 1 

 

 

Part 2 

8 minutes ago, Fresca said:

 

You are not the only one...it's so...bland- both the choreography and his expression of it. He didn't seem invested in it all. Then again, Shoma is the type of skater who takes a long time to learn choreography. He has difficulty learning the steps for the opening/closing parts of competition galas. You'll notice he's usually behind the beat. He was probably concentrating on getting all the steps right. That takes care of the expression bit. The choreography bit...yeah...not sure who did the choreography for this one but it looks like a rush job.

 

I actually don't know much about Shoma, but his short interview left me somewhat "FTW?" Not necessarily what he said - that he had been skating a new program and had been bad at it - but the way he said it, like an excuse.

 

I mean, Yuzu has at times said essentially the same, not having done a new program well, but with him, it's like, okay, I screwed that up so now I'm going to work my butt off to get it right and I WILL get it right.

 

Shoma struck me someone like, "uhm, that wasn't so good... uhm, sorry...uhm... " which makes me want to go, "Yes, AND!?!?!?"

 

I think I'm not explaining this well but his attitude made me wonder how he managed to get silver in the World Championship.

11 minutes ago, Katt said:

Shoma is a skater that need a long time to feel/own his programs. His Loco was empty and messy during summer but it got better as the season went. As for this SP, I think its still in early stage and need a lot of  touch in choreos, especially the stsq. I dont like the music cut but it could be worse. His expression is quite similar to his Loco, but he have alot of time to improve. Its still ice show. 

This is not my criticism towards Shoma. But it's my experience from being Asian in the classical music world that I grew up with. I did leave it years ago. But many of my friends are still there, studying in Germany, France, Russia, England. 

There is this tendency among them: These Asian musicians who didn't grow up in Western culture, no matter how much talented they are, or how much training they have, there are still something they can not get in some Western classical music pieces, especially those Baroque pieces. 

I never ever saw my Asian friends, either pianist or cellist or violinist did very well a musical piece by Bach. I mean... I went to competitions with them (lol the horror of classical music competition... even worse than skating competitions)... while they can try their best with some certain pieces to make their lack of cultural experience less glaring, it's still there. 

Even my professor who won a big international competition never show off his skills with Bach before us. 

However, they do tend to do well Mozart, Chopin, Debussy, Ravel... for some reason.

2 minutes ago, 五十嵐 美幸 said:

I think I'm not explaining this well but his attitude made me wonder how he managed to get silver in the World Championship.

 

Shoma is awkward in interviews but he is an ambitious guy and he will work hard for what he wants. I'm not sure why apologizing for not giving a performance like he'd hoped is a bad thing? 

3 minutes ago, meoima said:

My friend studied at the biggest music conservatory in London once told me she was forced to give up on Bach for a while because she's not religious. Western students who are not religious can do it well. But they grew up with that culture.

 

Ah, such wise words. Bach is so hard to understand, even for western musicians. I've had so many issues with Bach, every time I played it. Some pieces would intrigue me, touch me, but some other pieces would just be out of my league, from another world. And Bach is the 'difficult' Baroque, I'd say. Vivaldi is a more 'commercial' Baroque, so it gives off the impression to be easier to interpret. 

Imo, a music like Winter, exactly like all of the other Seasons, is built upon images. In fact, the sheets of the Four Seasons came with four poems, which gave very concrete images to the musical pieces. 
I've never played Winter, but I'm familiar with Summer. In the Summer, you find isolated image after image, a bird singing, two birds chasing one another, the breeze among the tree branches, the sun... then, suddently, delicate rain on the grass. Then, suddently, a lightning. The storm. And so on, and so on. (I'm talking about musical images, of course, that are explicited by the poem).

All of this to say that you need very concrete images in your head to skate to a music like Vivaldi's Winter to give it meaning, an interpretation that's not a spoof, a parody of the original. 

 

I don't trust Shoma or Shoma's team to think about this, though. I could be wrong, but I think his skating will be beautiful as you want, but vague, and, therefore, empty. 

Just now, xeyra said:

 

Shoma is awkward in interviews but he is an ambitious guy and he will work hard for what he wants. I'm not sure why apologizing for not giving a performance like he'd hoped is a bad thing? 

 

Because it sounded like an excuse for not having done better. Not an excuse like in apologising for something, but the kind of "my dog ate my homework" blaming whatever but not himself kind of excuse. Nor was there any "I'll try my best to improve" thing that ANY, not just skating but ANY, other Japanese sports person - or probably just ANY Japanese person talking about something they didn't do well - would have added.

@meoima No no I'm just express my opinion about Shoma's SP in general, not to your insights. I agree with you alot. I don't know much about classical music, but as a casual listener, I always feel Bach and Vivaldi's music are a bit heavy for my taste ^^

3 minutes ago, Murieleirum said:

 

Ah, such wise words. Bach is so hard to understand, even for western musicians. I've had so many issues with Bach, every time I played it. Some pieces would intrigue me, touch me, but some other pieces would just be out of my league, from another world. And Bach is the 'difficult' Baroque, I'd say. Vivaldi is a more 'commercial' Baroque, so it gives off the impression to be easier to interpret. 

Imo, a music like Winter, exactly like all of the other Seasons, is built upon images. In fact, the sheets of the Four Seasons came with four poems, which gave very concrete images to the musical pieces. 
I've never played Winter, but I'm familiar with Summer. In the Summer, you find isolated image after image, a bird singing, two birds chasing one another, the breeze among the tree branches, the sun... then, suddently, delicate rain on the grass. Then, suddently, a lightning. The storm. And so on, and so on. (I'm talking about musical images, of course, that are explicited by the poem).

All of this to say that you need very concrete images in your head to skate to a music like Vivaldi's Winter to give it meaning, an interpretation that's not a spoof, a parody of the original. 

 

I don't trust Shoma or Shoma's team to think about this, though. I could be wrong, but I think his skating will be beautiful as you want, but vague, and, therefore, empty. 

Yes, Vivaldi was more about images. But he is still baroque and he is still famous for writing the same concerto for 600 times. Lol 

I think people tend to underestimate Vivaldi for some reason. Many of his less famous pieces are amazing. 

RE Shoma SP: There were some parts I liked, expecially the last spin, while others left me more meh

I think he put a spin where I was expecting a step sequence, probably I'm still thinking of Lambiel's Four Seasons. I'm going to rewatch that one now maybe I just have to forget that to appreciate Shoma's more. I remember Patrick's Winter did not impressed me either.

I'm sure Shoma will grow (and please show us more than your default intense!stare, we know you can!!!) and maybe even choreo will be adjusted. There's still plenty of time.

But with Yuzu going classic too, I feel that comparison will be very very tough for everyone else.

 

Just now, 五十嵐 美幸 said:

 

Because it sounded like an excuse for not having done better. Not an excuse like in apologising for something, but the kind of "my dog ate my homework" blaming whatever but not himself kind of excuse. Nor was there any "I'll try my best to improve" thing that ANY, not just skating but ANY, other Japanese sports person - or probably just ANY Japanese person talking about something they didn't do well - would have added.

 

So this is something in the wording he used in Japanese? This isn't something I can understand to give an opinion on but Shoma doesn't even seem to remember to address fellow skaters as -senshu in these things, so maybe not using proper wording is just how he is in interviews?

1 minute ago, LadyLou said:

RE Shoma SP: There were some parts I liked, expecially the last spin, while others left me more meh

I think he put a spin where I was expecting a step sequence, probably I'm still thinking of Lambiel's Four Seasons. I'm going to rewatch that one now maybe I just have to forget that to appreciate Shoma's more. I remember Patrick's Winter did not impressed me either.

I'm sure Shoma will grow (and please show us more than your default intense!stare, we know you can!!!) and maybe even choreo will be adjusted. There's still plenty of time.

But with Yuzu going classic too, I feel that comparison will be very very tough for everyone else.

 

Yuzuru does Chopin and Chopin is from Romantic era. The music that time is totally different from Baroque era like Vivaldi. The time difference is almost 200 years. 

I don't think anyone in classical music world will compare Chopin to Vivaldi because they're totally different like different music genres. Honestly different genres. 

2 minutes ago, meoima said:

Yes, Vivaldi was more about images. But he is still baroque and he is still famous for writing the same concerto for 600 times. Lol 

I think people tend to underestimate Vivaldi for some reason. Many of his less famous pieces are amazing. 

 

I think Vivaldi is underestimated by non-musicians, but every musician I've ever worked with knows how much he means in history of music (well, I have to say, specifically, I know a lot of violinists, so for us Vivaldi's been even more important! Baroque music is basically strings music!)

 

Who knows if judges have this sensibility to different degrees of depth of interpretation...

5 minutes ago, Katt said:

@meoima No no I'm just express my opinion about Shoma's SP in general, not to your insights. I agree with you alot. I don't know much about classical music, but as a casual listener, I always feel Bach and Vivaldi's music are a bit heavy for my taste ^^

I like both Bach and Vivaldi. But it's just me. Most of my friends don't.

By the way, I just did a check of the several well-known Asian classical musicians from past till present, like Kyung Wha Chung, Mitsuko Uchida, Dang Thai Son, Lang Lang, Yuja Wang... they don't have recordings of baroque era. Or even if they did play it a bit, they're still not being famous for it. Quite different from Hilary Hahn who was hailed as daughter of Bach from the age of 15. 

5 minutes ago, LadyLou said:

RE Shoma SP: There were some parts I liked, expecially the last spin, while others left me more meh

I think he put a spin where I was expecting a step sequence, probably I'm still thinking of Lambiel's Four Seasons. I'm going to rewatch that one now maybe I just have to forget that to appreciate Shoma's more. I remember Patrick's Winter did not impressed me either.

I'm sure Shoma will grow (and please show us more than your default intense!stare, we know you can!!!) and maybe even choreo will be adjusted. There's still plenty of time.

But with Yuzu going classic too, I feel that comparison will be very very tough for everyone else.

 

I don't know Lambiel's Four Seasons and yet I felt the same. I'm sure, too, that by Olympics the program will probably get better. But right now I'm not sure it has even the potential to beat Yuzu's.

 

As for the other thing, I think Shoma appears overall very awkward. Maybe introverted in the truest sense. It's actually why I can't dislike him, because I can relate, a lot. I'm also very awkward and bad at expressing myself. However, in Japan, things like that won't help him get even close to Yuzu's level of popularity, I think. I'm also how curious to see how he'll deal with his awkwardness in his career, because IMO, it does get in the way.