2 hours ago, Fresca said:

 

In figure skating, there isn't really the senpai/kohai heirarchy. It came out in a TV feature with Oda, Yuzu and Shoma (so people call each other -kun).

 

...

 

I doubt there isn't. Or at least that would be the first Japanese sports federation to go for "democracy."

 

But even assuming it wouldn't be, it's a matter of basic manners. Talking TO him, using Yuzu-kun, if that's a previously agreed on thing, is one thing; talking ABOUT him and not using the proper form of address...

6 minutes ago, ShiroKJ said:

 

I'm not a Shoma fan, don't really care for him at all but I don't think this is an issue in context. Satoko has also called him Yuzu-kun during an interview (big jump from her Hanyu-senshu/Hanyu-kun) and it seems like something Yuzu would encourage from his fellow teammates IMO. 

 

...

 

I assume Satoko is Shoma's coach? And what's going on there - though I think Shoma himself isn't involved in that - is the Nagoya skating club trying to "un-hero-ise" Yuzu to the general public in Japan. (That won't ever happen, but that's another issue.) So inside Japan, it is an issue. But I can understand that this whole thing is difficult to understand for people unfamiliar with Japanese society and culture. :)

 

I'll do a Yuzu now and promise to try to do better at keeping local frustrations away from international audiences.

 

14 minutes ago, 五十嵐 美幸 said:

 

I doubt there isn't. Or at least that would be the first Japanese sports federation to go for "democracy."

 

As others already said, the skaters themselves have said that there isn't such strict hierarchy among them and they don't address each other that formally. You may doubt all you want, but I don't see much reason why they should lie about this. 
Insulting Shoma because your expectations don't coincide with their reality doesn't sound very polite to me either. And I think they probably have a fairly good grasp of their own culture.

3 minutes ago, rozuyu said:

"Yuzuru: There really isn't a senpai-kohai hierarchy in men's skating.

Shoma: True, everyone gets along well.

Y: Right now we're speaking formally and using honorifics, but usually we don't." from here

and they referred to each other as Yuzu-kun, Nobu-kun etc. thoughout the conversation. So I think it's all fine.

 

 

I think that might be because they actually spend more time internationally, around foreign skaters than among themselves. But to the average Japanese person, I think it would seem weird, regardless.

10 minutes ago, 五十嵐 美幸 said:

 

I assume Satoko is Shoma's coach? And what's going on there - though I think Shoma himself isn't involved in that - is the Nagoya skating club trying to "un-hero-ise" Yuzu to the general public in Japan. (That won't ever happen, but that's another issue.) So inside Japan, it is an issue. But I can understand that this whole thing is difficult to understand for people unfamiliar with Japanese society and culture. :)

 

I'll do a Yuzu now and promise to try to do better at keeping local frustrations away from international audiences.

 

I think Satoko is Miyahara Satoko.

Yuzu is always so polite. I remember in interview, when he described Nobu to others, he used Oda (moto) senshu. The senpai/kohai hierarchy does exist, well, at least did exist in Takahashi era...Maybe Yuzu is nice and does not care about it, but it does not mean he should not be respected in Japanese way...I don't know how to describe this...sorry

6 minutes ago, Pamigena said:

 

As others already said, the skaters themselves have said that there isn't such strict hierarchy among them and they don't address each other that formally. You may doubt all you want, but I don't see much reason why they should lie about this. 
Insulting Shoma because your expectations don't coincide with their reality doesn't sound very polite to me either. And I think they probably have a fairly good grasp of their own culture.

Nobody said Shoma is rude. It's rather that he can come across as rude to the average Japanese who may not have watched one program in which they said they don't use honorifics. So, whatever they do privately, it'd be good, for their images, to still use them when speaking publicly. At least that's what I understood from this

Am I the only one who doesn't care about how these skaters address each other? 

I only care about their skating, their performance on ice, their music, and of course, whether some skaters cheats their jumps or not. 

Came to the thread ...  wierd and cold air  ... gone 

From what I gather from this whole debate, Japanese culture seems to have a level of formality that may be dismissed when you're among friends and fellow skaters, but may raise some eyebrows if ignored during formal interviews. I don't know what the common Japanese person thinks when Shoma gives interviews and doesn't address someone formally or fails to use proper wording to apologize for a performance, but it's probably just his nature to be a bit awkward and not something he purposefully chooses to do. Of course, what we might think fondly of as a 'oh Shoma, why u gotta be like this?' moment may be taken differently in his own culture, but I don't think Shoma is particularly criticized for his manners? At least, that I know of.

8 minutes ago, SSS said:

I think Satoko is Miyahara Satoko.

Yuzu is always so polite. I remember in interview, when he described Nobu to others, he used Oda (moto) senshu. The senpai/kohai hierarchy does exist, well, at least did exist in Takahashi era...Maybe Yuzu is nice and does not care about it, but it does not mean he should not be respected in Japanese way...I don't know how to describe this...sorry

Yuzu, like most top skaters, spends a lot of time overseas and after being called by name so much, by skaters who are both more and less experienced, I guess he might care less about hierarchy (and especially when he's at the top of it). But I, too, think it exists, somewhat, and, regardless of what they say, the average Japanese person - not fan - will expect it to exist.

 

But I don't think it's that huge a deal. It's not likely any other skater will get as popular as Yuzu anyway...

2 minutes ago, ralucutzagy said:

Came to the thread ...  wierd and cold air  ... gone 

 

Well, FaOI has ended. Marginally tangential discussions are bound to happen....... I'll  with you. I need to go watch a movie anyway.

22 minutes ago, 五十嵐 美幸 said:

 

I assume Satoko is Shoma's coach? And what's going on there - though I think Shoma himself isn't involved in that - is the Nagoya skating club trying to "un-hero-ise" Yuzu to the general public in Japan. (That won't ever happen, but that's another issue.) So inside Japan, it is an issue. But I can understand that this whole thing is difficult to understand for people unfamiliar with Japanese society and culture. :)

 

I'll do a Yuzu now and promise to try to do better at keeping local frustrations away from international audiences.

 

 

Satoko Miyahara, who if you ask anyone who knows her even just a little, she is one of THE most polite people ever. The only way she would ever call Yuzu anything other than Hanyu-Senshu is if he encouraged her to. 

 

As for the Takahashi, his teammates commonly use to call him Dai-chan all the time. Its even more informal than -kun for males. 

1 minute ago, xeyra said:

 

Well, FaOI has ended. Marginally tangential discussions are bound to happen....... I'll  with you. I need to go watch a movie anyway.

What movie do you watch? 

 

25 minutes ago, Pamigena said:

 

As others already said, the skaters themselves have said that there isn't such strict hierarchy among them and they don't address each other that formally. You may doubt all you want, but I don't see much reason why they should lie about this. 
Insulting Shoma because your expectations don't coincide with their reality doesn't sound very polite to me either. And I think they probably have a fairly good grasp of their own culture.

 

WOW, could you please re-read what I said?

 

Since I did NOT say Shoma is rude, nor that he means to be rude - in fact, I explicitly stated that I do NOT think he meant to be arrogant - but that he comes across that way, by not following standard Japanese practice.

 

As for "their culture," that happens to be MY culture as well, just for the record.

3 hours ago, liha said:

 

While feasting on all the new Chopin footage we got today I couldn't resist gifing this part.

I'm in love with his hand and arm movements during spins

One word: hypnotising. I could spend the night watching that hand 

Thank you, @liha.

p.s. I could also spend the night watching your profile gif. That smile