General Yuzuru Chat

[IULIANA]

4 hours ago, barbara said:

Why so cynical? 

Oh, come on, there were just bits of thoughts, social distancing and prolongation of the emergency status do that to me perhaps, but more so, I have learned through time that not all we see or hear is what it seems to be. And that attention seeking could be a motive for some to make assumption that draw such attentiion. What is clearly true is that all of us here DO miss Yuzuru a lot.

[yuzuangel]

On 4/6/2020 at 12:55 AM, TallyT said:

 

Though being a sensible (well, sometimes) lad, I hope he won't be as blatantly stupid as Trusova and put up video while breaking quarantine/social isolation...

Depending on where you live, you can still go outside without breaking social isolation

[cereus]

1 hour ago, FlyingCamel said:

FYI!

 

C-chan is so good to us, and to Yuzu.

 

tbt C-chan's message after GPF 2019:

CITIZEN CN: #WorldMovesForYou We know this result may not be seen as ideal for you bc you chase for perfection always. But C-chan is a firm believer that greatness & impressiveness aren't defined by score. We're grateful for another-#YuzuruHanyu #羽生結弦 pic.twitter.com/PZbyQj4xHj

— Karen🌸❄️⛸️໒꒱ (@karen_hyaxel) December 10, 2019

-competition that you fought with all your might. We believe in your abilities, and we will continue to be by your side.

— Karen🌸❄️⛸️໒꒱ (@karen_hyaxel) December 10, 2019

[Fay]

 

[yuzuchara]

6 hours ago, makebelieveup said:

Next season is pre olympic season, what do you guys think would be a good strategy for yuzu? Layout, program wise, or simply what are we all hoping to see? discuss!!! 

 

p.s. ive been rewatching his past competitions and i find a small pattern. do you guys feel like he usually performs his two programs cleanest around gps and gpf but he usually skates the free skate clean around worlds (2012, 2014, 2017, 2019). its not always true bc there are occasions he bombed the free at worlds or scored total score higher at gps or worlds in the season. the most obvious pattern is how he usually does well in one and then bombs the other or he came back in the free. well in the last two seasons even when he didnt manage to win with the free but he did in a sense still come back to medal. but whenever he skates generally clean in both and win, usually it happened at gpf (2013, 2014, 2015). I wonder when he usually peaks in the season.

 

i think he needs ballade chopin-like program that makes him blend with the music,  and maybe he need to reduce the level of difficulty to be able to land 5 quads and the 4A ofc (so excited and nervous just to imagine he'll include it in the program!)

you're right, it feels he usually skate clean both programs at gpf, wonder why

[monchan]

So anticipate Ice jewels vol 12 interview. The content we need about his latest condition. More than the 4A i want to hear about his direction for new programs. With the constant success of Chopin i have no doubt he wants a similar music (classical, detailed, intellectual), smt he feels most comfortable to blend into the music.

[Henni147]

I'm sure, from now on Yuzu will only pick music pieces that 100% suit his style and are competition-friendly. That means:

(1) The music matches the timing and rhythm of EVERY technical element and transition.

(2) The choreography has an ideal balance of power sections and breathing rooms.

(3) The program highlights Yuzu's strengths in technique and style.

 

In his case everything stands and falls with (1). Literally. As long as there is a single mismatch between a jump and the music, the probability of making a mistake increases by 60-70%. We could see that in recent performances. Hence it's very risky and difficult for him to change the jump layout mid season. There is no quad that resembles another in its entry rhythm, speed or character and can't be switched that easily. It's either the provisional layout that won't fit the music or the final version (or both). 

 

I think, this is one of the reasons why Yuzu struggled with Origin. In 9 competitions he changed the layout 7 times and attempted four new jump elements in two seasons. This massive technical upgrade and permanent layout change made it pretty much impossible for him to shape and practice Origin in its final form. Another dilemma: Origin couldn't leave the cocoon stage as long as the quad Axel was not ready. A deadlock.

 

My opinion: the new program should be designed with a final form that is in realistic reach, so that he can work on it from the beginning. It's okay to have one watered down version in reserve, but not more. It's a waste of time and energy to work on multiple temporary layouts that are meant to be discarded anyway.

[mercedes]

47 minutes ago, Henni147 said:

I'm sure, from now on Yuzu will only pick music pieces that 100% suit his style and are competition-friendly. That means:

(1) The music matches the timing and rhythm of EVERY technical element and transition.

(2) The choreography has an ideal balance of power sections and breathing rooms.

(3) The program highlights Yuzu's strengths in technique and style.

 

In his case everything stands and falls with (1). Literally. As long as there is a single mismatch between a jump and the music, the probability of making a mistake increases by 60-70%. We could see that in recent performances. Hence it's very risky and difficult for him to change the jump layout mid season. There is no quad that resembles another in its entry rhythm, speed or character and can't be switched that easily. It's either the provisional layout that won't fit the music or the final version (or both). 

 

I think, this is one of the reasons why Yuzu struggled with Origin. In 9 competitions he changed the layout 7 times and attempted four new jump elements in two seasons. This massive technical upgrade and permanent layout change made it pretty much impossible for him to shape and practice Origin in its final form. Another dilemma: Origin couldn't leave the cocoon stage as long as the quad Axel was not ready. A deadlock.

 

My opinion: the new program should be designed with a final form that is in realistic reach, so that he can work on it from the beginning. It's okay to have one watered down version in reserve, but not more. It's a waste of time and energy to work on multiple temporary layouts that are meant to be discarded anyway.

this is very interesting and i tend to agree with you, even Max called Origin 'cantiere aperto' an open building site after all....I honestly wish we one day could see the final version because it's an amazing program.

On the other side Yuzuru is so meticulous in everything skating I'm not sure he could stick to one or two lay outs,his galaxy brain doesn't ever rest so I cannot imagine him going for it....but then who knows?

[makebelieveup]

1 hour ago, Henni147 said:

I'm sure, from now on Yuzu will only pick music pieces that 100% suit his style and are competition-friendly. That means:

(1) The music matches the timing and rhythm of EVERY technical element and transition.

(2) The choreography has an ideal balance of power sections and breathing rooms.

(3) The program highlights Yuzu's strengths in technique and style.

 

In his case everything stands and falls with (1). Literally. As long as there is a single mismatch between a jump and the music, the probability of making a mistake increases by 60-70%. We could see that in recent performances. Hence it's very risky and difficult for him to change the jump layout mid season. There is no quad that resembles another in its entry rhythm, speed or character and can't be switched that easily. It's either the provisional layout that won't fit the music or the final version (or both). 

 

I think, this is one of the reasons why Yuzu struggled with Origin. In 9 competitions he changed the layout 7 times and attempted four new jump elements in two seasons. This massive technical upgrade and permanent layout change made it pretty much impossible for him to shape and practice Origin in its final form. Another dilemma: Origin couldn't leave the cocoon stage as long as the quad Axel was not ready. A deadlock.

 

My opinion: the new program should be designed with a final form that is in realistic reach, so that he can work on it from the beginning. It's okay to have one watered down version in reserve, but not more. It's a waste of time and energy to work on multiple temporary layouts that are meant to be discarded anyway.

well said and i totally agree that he should start with a final form since he has a pattern of growing into his programs. If he is going to grow into it, I think planting a watered down jump where he planned a higher element would be another option. For example, like Rika planted a 3S in the beginning in place of her intended 4s. 

 

I think Yuzu has a better shot at skating clean with the short for the past few seasons aside from LGC, which was due to the upgrade elements. And when he messed up with chopin, usually it was due to the upgrade of the 4loop. I remember in his interview with Nomura Mansai he also mentioned he needed to feel the music to jump, which was why it was easy for PW and difficult with Chopin at first when he had to jump during a more soft music knowing people know the jump is coming. So I really agree it comes down to certain factors like timing of the music and a layout thats comfortable to him.

 

In terms of layout, theres a lot to consider. I think at this point theres no going back to PW one quad layout. From a success rate perspective, it would be 4S 4t3t and 3a*. But from point perspective, its 4S 3A 4t3t* to get that 10% bonus. This layout is still pretty successful. He's been doing it a number of seasons and most of the time he succeeded. The problem is usually with the 4S pop so its not to blame the 2nd half combo. When he has trouble with the combo, usually its due to Otonal music timing. I think the music of Otonal is also very difficult by making him squeeze all the jumps in the beginning to fit the music while optimizing the scores. It took someone as good as Yuzu to make it work but even so he kept missing the combo last season. So if hes going to go with the combo in the second half, the music must allow him breathing room and patience going into those jumps. He needs that 10% to compete with Nathan if Nathan is clean..Who knows what monster score a clean Nathan gets with a 4lz short next season. Im betting 114 to 115.

 

From a gamble perspective, its going to be a 4loop or 4lz upgrade, which Id be excited for. With Yuzu, its unpredictable what he would do. I think with the sp, he gambles less. But if he wants to go all out again then I suggest him getting real comfortable from the beginning, even at ice shows. Do full layout runthroughs. But the reward would be certain of a world record if hes clean. Alot of time, judges give higher GOE on a higher element thats done okay than a lower element thats done well. Alot of times judges also give higher GOE to skaters who are known to execute that element more often. Yes yes I understand its mostly due to passport but all else equal, this is usually the case. So doing more 4lz or 4loop will help his GOE over time. One of the reasons Nathan has higher GOE on the 4lz aside from his inflation reason is because he has been landing it consistently. That "gives" judges a reason. If Yuzu begins to do 4lz more consistently, he will take away that reason. But the opposite could also happen, which is if he keeps falling his goe will be like Boyang's. But to me I think risking it with 4lz makes more sense than 4loop at this point. Even if he fails he gets higher score and i see it as a practice for the free.

 

But honestly I still think next season he would stay with his trusty 4S for the short and that would be totally understandable with the upgrade he's aiming for in the free. But the thing is if he is aiming for 5 quads with the free, will he be doing 4a 4lz or 4lz 4loop. 

 

if he is going to do 4a in the free, honestly like just cut down most of the in between. Im just so scared at the thought of him panting in blue lips like how he did at gpf. 

 

[rockstaryuzu]

27 minutes ago, mercedes said:

On the other side Yuzuru is so meticulous in everything skating I'm not sure he could stick to one or two lay outs,his galaxy brain doesn't ever rest so I cannot imagine him going for it....but then who knows?

Also, having multiple layouts is part of his strategy for dealing with unexpected things like bad ice conditions or a problem on a jump early in the program and so on. Part of why Yuzu wins so much  is because he's a magician at disaster recovery - think of all the times he YOLO'd jumps into his programs to save his score when he had issues early on. The reason he's able to do that is because he practices different layouts. So I doubt we'll ever see him bring a program where he only uses one definitive layout the whole season long. 

 

31 minutes ago, makebelieveup said:

But the thing is if he is aiming for 5 quads with the free, will he be doing 4a 4lz or 4lz 4loop. 

 

if he is going to do 4a in the free, honestly like just cut down most of the in between. Im just so scared at the thought of him painting in blue lips like how he did at gpf

 

Yes, exactly. 

[makebelieveup]

I know he'd never use these musics but i would love to see him skate to Kings of the past, Remember Who you are, and King of Pride Rock. Its so fitting to his situation right now. Like he is a king but due to lies he forgot that he is, but in the end he return to take back what is his.

 

 

(lol but then i remember how Liona King is a plagiarism of Kimba and im like nvm)

 

 

[Henni147]

3 hours ago, rockstaryuzu said:

Also, having multiple layouts is part of his strategy for dealing with unexpected things like bad ice conditions or a problem on a jump early in the program and so on. Part of why Yuzu wins so much  is because he's a magician at disaster recovery - think of all the times he YOLO'd jumps into his programs to save his score when he had issues early on. The reason he's able to do that is because he practices different layouts. So I doubt we'll ever see him bring a program where he only uses one definitive layout the whole season long. 

 

Sorry, I was a bit unclear in my last post. The big difference between Origin and other freeskates is the following:

 

Until 2016/17 Yuzu used one core layout for his freeskates. Yes, he had multiple recovery options in the bag, but in most cases he sticked to the same planned layout within a season (the one he submitted to the ISU before the competition). If you go back until 2010/11, you will find very few exceptions. For Hope & Legacy the planned content didn't change at all. It stayed the same over 7 competitions from ACI to the World Team Trophy:

4Lo

4S

3F

*4S+3T
*4T
*3A+2T
*3A+1Lo+3S
*3Lz

 

In Origin on the other hand the planned layout changed a lot. In fact, there is no jump element in Origin except the 4Lo that stayed the same from the debut at ACI 2018 to GPF 2019 (and I'm sure, he wanted to upgrade the 4Lo later to a 4A as well, so...). That's a very big difference to the programs before 2017.

 

Here is a list of planned Origin layouts (not what he actually did on the ice, but what he wanted to do, if he had skated clean). I marked all jumps in yellow that Yuzu planned to do only once or twice in these two seasons:

 

Beat me, but I don't think that he did himself any favor with these changes. It's okay to upgrade the technical content a little, but you need a core of three or four jumping passes that stays the same. If you want to skate clean, there must be automatisms you can rely on, so that you can focus on the crucial elements. Origin didn't really have a core like that and that made it twice as hard for Yuzu to skate it perfectly clean. That's my guess at least.

[monchan]

Great

More, even in school textbook:))

LEGEND

[Paskud]

Whatever you do, don't think that
Yuzuru.
Yuzuru in Japan.
Yuzuru training in Japan.
Yuzuru training in Japan without coach.
Yuzuru training 4a in Japan without coach.

[makebelieveup]

1 hour ago, Henni147 said:

 

Sorry, I was a bit unclear in my last post. The big difference between Origin and other freeskates is the following:

 

Until 2016/17 Yuzu used one core layout for his freeskates. Yes, he had multiple recovery options in the bag, but in most cases he sticked to the same planned layout within a season (the one he submitted to the ISU before the competition). If you go back until 2010/11, you will find very few exceptions. For Hope & Legacy the planned content didn't change at all. It stayed the same over 7 competitions from ACI to the World Team Trophy:

4Lo

4S

3F

*4S+3T
*4T
*3A+2T
*3A+1Lo+3S
*3Lz

 

In Origin on the other hand the planned layout changed a lot. In fact, there is no jump element in Origin except the 4Lo that stayed the same from the debut at ACI 2018 to GPF 2019 (and I'm sure, he wanted to upgrade the 4Lo later to a 4A as well, so...). That's a very big difference to the programs before 2017.

 

Here is a list of planned Origin layouts (not what he actually did on the ice, but what he wanted to do, if he had skated clean). I marked all jumps in yellow that Yuzu planned to do only once or twice in these two seasons:

 

Beat me, but I don't think that he did himself any favor with these changes. It's okay to upgrade the technical content a little, but you need a core of three or four jumping passes that stays the same. If you want to skate clean, there must be automatisms you can rely on, so that you can focus on the crucial elements. Origin didn't really have a core like that and that made it twice as hard for Yuzu to skate it perfectly clean. That's my guess at least.

I think one of the reasons why he changed so much was due to a lot of external factors that happened.

 

1) Injury - I think if he hadnt injured at Cor18 he would have stuck to the original layout and maybe would only replace 4loop with a 4a when ready. I think even if he said he wanted to do a 4a, he was more careful with not risk losing. He stopped practicing it when his 3a got affected. So I feel like he thought if he could do his layout perfectly even with 4loop and 4sal he could win. But he got injured and only skated half of the season and had to change his layout at cor18.

2) another external factor was losing to Nathan at worlds. I think after seeing where him and Nathan stood at saitama, he realized he cant just win with 4loop and 4sal and needed to be certain he could win even if everyone skated clean. So he decided to change the layout again with the goal of incorporating higher base value elements like 3lz instead of 3loop and 4t3f instead of 4t3a so he could do 3a twice. He also wanted to eventually do 4lz and 4a. but I honestly think he would have done the same layout he did at Skate Canada if he wasnt trailing by 13 points again to Nathan after the sp at gpf. Because he didnt want to repeat what happened at Worlds, he went for the most optimal layout he could do realistically and went for that monster layout.

 

so to me, I think the reason he changes so much for the last two seasons was because he couldnt have skated a full season in 18/19 and the judging forced him to use those recovery layouts. 

 

I think back then he had a bunch of recovery layouts too but its just he didnt need to use them. He just had to skate his planned layout clean to recover. Even if he came from behind, a clean free would have been enough to win. He could afford mistakes. Now its more like, what layout I could do to win if Nathan and me both go clean and what layout I could do if I came from behind.